Moves you'd exorcise from VF

I don't know, those advantages are great but take away Tenchi and she suddenly looks pale. Don't get me wrong, I would be lying if I just said that she didn't have any other good tools or if I were to say that her sabakis and defensive options sucked. But most of those things will require good guesses, many of which (cancels, reversals, and tenchi specifically) can be very risky or have low reward. She already has to guess correctly more than her opponent in a lot of situations, so taking away Techni would be a slap in the face to me.

I think one thing that I appreciate about the move is how it allows her to gain advantage from positioning, something that isn't talked about as much outside of the typical 33P+K combos or PPK punishment. Aoi doesn't do any notable damage most of the time, but tenchi does provide more options not only for ring out potential but when near the wall as well if you use P or PP (depending on how far they are away from the wall). We're talking about around 100 dmg in certain situations for opponents who abuse cheesy strings or can't get out of starting their offense with the typical P. All of her defensive options (especially Tenchi) are what make this girl 'somewhat scary' in this game full of hard hitters like jacky, brad, vanessa, and just about most of the cast.

 

but what about her 15f mid that staggers on crouchhit or counter hit? I always thought that move was pretty good.

 

If you are speaking about 43P, it's 13 frames, but the idea of making it 15 frames is actually interesting

 

no... the 15f im speaking of is the one where she does it from full crouch.

Its not the hit throw one but the one with a followup P.

 

CH only for stagger.

 

I'd get rid of Wolf's HCB. It's awkward and there's better moves to use

 

Aoi without Tenchi is pretty bad idea. Pai, Akira and others have the full range of reversals so what makes Aoi the defensive powerhouse without Tenchi in'You?

 

Long time havn't read something about her .
For me YY stance is a true non sens tool. I mean and do the job really well. YY stance is all in one, or 8 in all witout to give the ability to escape it. I mean give her a strong dmg and a free / and make the same TE system with 2 choices ( or ).

 

Simple strings that gives +on block. When you see a string ender move that made you think "now I'm on advantage" while you're not. This is so weird sometimes. The difference between blockstun offered by this sh!t and the animation isn't logical at all...

Really I don't get it...

 

Which strings are like that ? The few that are + on block like Vanes KPP have highs in it so you can punish them hard if you predict them.

 

That's the point. You really need to know what string it is based on frame data. Because on the screen nothing can tell you it's + on block and your only option is to duck... No animation / effects / sound...

Most + on block are one hit slow hit move... When you gard you know it's "heavy".
My comment was based on Van only but didn't know how much character have these strings...
For me watching the screen knowing it is giving advantage; it just seem stupid.

 

Disclaimer: we played offline with Ben last night

But i agree, OS 's animation is deceiving and does NOT look like it leaves Vane at +5 (DS doesn't look like it's +on block either). EDIT: Pai~Chun reminded me that Lau's is also one of the moves that don't actually look like they'd be +on block.

However, I wouldn't get rid of all strings that grant +frames on block: Jeffry's or Akira's leave the opponent reeling and "feel" like they grant +frames on block.

As long as the string that grants +frames on block is high i'd leave it in the game, provided the animation was not deceiving. If there's a doubt, i'd make sure to adjust the animation accordingly.

PS: AFAIK Ben's argument has been around since VF5 vanilla. For example Akira's string was a MP > HDP string, +4 on block, slam on any hit. But the animation was... manly and sorta looked as if it were positive on block, so complaints were few and far between. On the other hand, OS Vanessa's was mid > high but didn't LOOK like it were positive on hit. Most opponents unfamiliar with the frame data assumed it was just a quick high after a sidekick, kinda like Kage's, Pai's or Lau's - so "why would it be + on block?!" Thus, despite the fact that it didn't actually yield anything on hit or CH, it was a constant source of complaints.

For reference, both moves were removed in VF5FS

 

So I tested in lab. And she still have a mid ender. You can Duck but you'll have to be fast. (being dumb and hitting 2P like a scrub...) Escaping is not really reliable or I'm really shitty at this game. I recorded random and tried to escape both. Good luck to make it a 100% success. You have to check side on the punch option. zzzzz...

Bref...

 

Last hit is escapable to her back, if you can do it = no mindagames + big punish.
First and second hits are pure highs, you can low P on second hit on reaction offline. (beware of K--> 9P though ^^).
If you choose to crouch you will take small damage (17pts). It's a risky guess FOR HER compared to what you can do if you evade the last K (probably guaranteed 3K+G).
You can use your high reversal or 2K+G during the string too I guess.

Sometimes I don't understand that people want a universal way of escaping a string mixup, then when it exists they complain "the string is useless because you just have to do X to beat all options".

In the case above there are solutions that are mostly in your favor in terms of damage.
It's this way I guess because KPP's main use is a fast semi cicular confirm string:
K(CH confirm because opponent evaded the wrong direction) PP or P4P into mixup.

Of course all this is for offline, cause online sometimes it's hard to crouch/low P during strings :/

 

Balancing Lion is pretty easy: makes is P 12F instead of 11F

 

i would get rid of the most useless of moves/strings for the sake of eliminating command list glut.

one of the biggest things i would get rid of is failed evade dash cancels. it's a rote sequence of inputs that covers way too many options. fuzzy guarding is a little iffy, but i am okay with it. fuzzy just doesn't cover as many options

there are quite a few moves i've seen mentioned that could stay in the game but only if altered. lots of them are moves that are too safe for the rewards they bring when successful, like akira's 666p and jean's 66p. akira can fuzzy after his, and jean is pushed too far out for -8 to really mean anything. akira's sde could stay if they made it worse on block and not give him a knockdown on normal hit, and jean's 66p should put him about 1/3 the distance it does now. there are more moves like these, but since i play both jean and akira they stick out in my mind. i could make a laundry list of these, but that's like designing a whole patch, and i'm lazy.

i feel i need to make special note of akira's 46p. what the fuck were they thinking giving it 14f activation, the ability to combo on normal hit, and +1f on block? one of those properties has got to go. it would still be kind of dumb if it put akira at disadvantage on block, but it wouldn't be extra stupid like it is now.

the guard breaks need big changes if they're to stay. other characters have them, but let's be honest, this is mostly an akira problem. akira's 6p+k+g should not lead to that much damage. i could maybe live with it only gave akira +12 when it connects...maybe. ditch the mid guard break (2p+k+g). why the hell does this thing even exist? yeah, akira's at -10 when he hits you crouching, but why should a guard break hit you crouching if at all? of all non-stance/-special movement guard breaks, i could tolerate gbod (3p+k+g sequence) with some alterations. it should do less damage than his most optimal throw direction, should never knockdown on hit (opponent doesn't block), and should put him at god-awful disadvantage if it hits (opponent doesn't block).

strings in general just track too well in this game, and i'm not exactly sure as to why. i understand they track back if you hit buttons, but the way it works now makes hitting buttons after someone evades still kind of work.

last but not least taka is such a stupid idea that you have to question what the hell they were thinking when they put him back in the series. he has a hit-confirmable launcher, which basically lets him play "will-i-won't-i-swing" with the second attack that will also give him the combo. his combos may not do big damage, but he lowers the damage other characters do to him. to top it all off he has an amazing throw game, 80 damage in two directions. he's a complete mess from a gameplay design perspective.​