Namco still up for Tekken vs. VF

You're assuming that the majority of mankind actually has the intelligence to appreciate the finer points of the art of fighting...

...but the truth is, they really do just want to see bears and people being thrown off cliffs. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Heard about the news of the "knutty" German broad who jumped into a Polar Bear pen in Germany? I'm sure you did. Everyone was talking about it.

While somewhere tucked away at a TED conference, scientists, bio-engineers, and medical researchers are discussing how we may live to see "homo evolutis".

So... which one do you think sold more papers? I'm not trying to mock you. Far from it. I'm just trying to stress a point.

If "serious" martial arts/combat sports like MMA and boxing actually have some form of "story" behind them, then a game's story needs to be at a different level of entertainment.

Now, I can't see the posts previous to mine because I'm quoting you, but someone just pointed out how movies sell because of a great look coupled with a great story. VF has the gameplay nailed down solid. Oil Tanker Anchor solid. Now all we need is current poster-boy Akira with ice-white hair, red eyes, purple flames bursting out of his palms when he attacks, coupled with a bigger-than-the-current-VF-marketing-budget (e.g. more than 5 bucks), and believe me - the kids will gobble up the game like crazy, and Sega will finally see the rea$$$on to keep this game alive, and develop it into a proper flagship title.

In the end, that's all we want right? VF's solid gameplay. If "looks" and a "story" don't really matter to us, then let the kids have what they want. In the end, if more people get into VF because of the story - fine. More people = more sales. More sales = more VF. More VF = more fun for us. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

But you can always create a Akira with ice-white hair, redeyes, and purple flames bursting out of his palms in VFR.

 

You could in VF5, well you could in the jap arcades at least /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Absolutely true. But how long do you have to play to get to that?

To compare leads: Kazuya is "badass" right off the bat. Mafia guy who runs a rival corp behind his evil dad's back, and has succeeded in controlling the devil gene in him, hence having one red eye, and electric fists.

And to think... that's just the beginning. You can play enough and earn points to make Kazuya look like a Japanese Yakuza biker: elvis grease hair, sideburns, shades, et al. Coupled with Kazuya's very low voice and demeanor, you've just created a "character" out of a character.

While Akira...? Again, not trying to be an ass here. But you know Sega was trying to make an effort when they created Goh. When he showed up, how many people said "whoa, who is that guy? He looks badass!" I mean in VF5, Goh + Suit + Shotgun? Yakuza hitman. Fantastic. But what's his story? Hitman for the organization behind Dural? Great! Wait, where is his movie ending?

Vanilla Akira is pretty vanilla by today's standards. Ryu and Ken are vanilla as well, but having the whole SF story behind them makes a world of difference. Kids arguing over who is stronger: "Ken is, because he mastered the dragon punch, the strongest move there is!" "No! It's Ryu, because he has the spirt of Hadou in him!" ad infinitum.

Namco did it right with both SC and Tekken. Sega needs to make that effort. Add some crowd-pleasing flash, put in a story (a REAL story, not a "reason" to show up to fight), hype it up, and you'll see new players pouring in like crazy.

I'm as big a VF fanboy as anyone on this board, but I have to be honest with it: If a reboot is what is needed to revive VF back into its undisputed number 1 slot (remember VF2?), then by all means, let's have a damn reboot.

 

Absolute truth.

 

I checked with the man himself and this is what he had to say:

...word to your mother.

 

please post a link to this /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

I agree with everything you've said. And it's actually quite convenient that a new Tekken 6 trailer just came out.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/48265.html

None of the helicopters, explosions, etc have anything to do with the gameplay, but it makes the experience fun for casual players. While I don't think VF needs to be quite as excessive, just a semblance of a story to give the characters some personality would be nice. You'd be surprised by how many people follow Tekken just to stick with the characters.

 

They should put a mini game in it, Ridge Racer 4. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Yet Japanese shied away from using Goh. I guess he wasnt goodlooking to them.

btw. Nearly everybody I know says Jean is cool, and theres several good players who would play him should he come to consoles.

 

I think these threads will go on and on forever because the people who starts them don't understand/accept what Sega games are like.

I mean let's take a few Examples:

Panzer Dragoon/REZ/Skies of Arcadia/VF/Shenmue/Yakuza/Nights/Valkyria/Jet Set Radio etc etc ect...

All great games, all failed to set the charts on fire. All these games have great stories, outstanding art, arguably best gameplay of their respective genre.

Sega games as a whole are flawed gems. SEGA itself is a flawed gem. You either accept it or you don't.

Sega needs a reboot, it needed one since the later 90's. They need to re-boot their management team because they can make the best games and nobody will ever even hear about them.

(Edit 1)
No disrespect to Namco either, because they make good games all around, but Namco has been ripping off Sega since forever...VC/Time Crisis, Daitona/RR,
and so on...

Namco got into serous financial troubles not long ago and merged with Bandai, after Sega refused the merge. I say Namco needs TK Vs VF more than Sega does.

(Edit 2)

Oh and fresh from this morning:

http://www.edge-online.com/news/sega-rethinking-global-management-structure

 

No Matt Sega aren't cursed, they simply don't have enough bears in their video games /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

I know. I'm pretty sure I mentioned him (Jean) in one of my other posts as somebody with "character".

Goh/Jean being liked/unliked is really a preference/cultural thing. Some people like/hate Lars/Kazuya/Jin/Bryan/etc. but you need a diverse cast of characters so that at least one of them appeals to a type of person.

Matteo's spot on too. For all we know, the Sega game devs and designers are clamoring for change, and have a ton of ideas, but management aren't giving them the green light.

(In fact, that might just explain why some moved on to other companies, Namco being one of them.)

 

Welcome SuperPanda.

I agree wholeheartedly with your previous posts: VF must adapt or die. For years I've been content to rely on my imagination for character stimulus, but my reservoirs are drying up.

To this day I collect the Tekken soundtracks; for the most part the series has produced excellent pieces that compliment the game, even standing out on their own (I workout to some) in my opinion. Until the advent of sites like YouTube I'd hangout at friend's houses and watch them play Tekken just to see the CG endings.

Beyond a handful of BGMs throughout the VF series, most notably Sarah's VF2 track, the series has never truly stimulated me in the audio department.

I don't know the right way to describe it but for me Virtua Fighter suffers from an uncanny valley-like condition. The spirit, the fun of the series is proportionate to the skill and time that the player invests, but without that interaction and dedication VF can leave me feeling cold.

I need a "why" when I play games, I need goals to work towards which gameplay should facilitate, not perpetuate for its own sake. Creators of Tekken, Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive all understand the value of "character"; not as a gimmicky spice you sprinkle on a character to make them look unique, but as a means to imbue them with qualities that will endear them to the consumer.

If only Yu Suzuki would’ve injected the same sense of feeling into VF that he did whilst designing Shenmue.

As an aside; here's an article on "Homo Evolutis" for anyone interested.

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009...mo-evolutis.ars

 

nope.. that game would suck VF6 wtf

 

This is all bullshit. VF not selling well historically has absolutely nothing to do with its lack of CGI cutscenes. Fyi all game companies are flawed, hotshot. Name me one perfect game company . No such animal . A "flawed gem" would be a company that made game that rated 85 % universally . EA game usually rate 65% or lower, yet they make billions. So really being a flawed gem is something most companies aspire to be. Sega games sold poorly not because of Sega leaving out feature X or Y, it was a Sega was an independent with their own system. They didnt bend over for industry giants like Nintendo and Sony , who could basically buy the press and have Sega blackballed. Sega since the Master System (My first gaming system) has historically been "othered" and ostracized in the gaming industry .

THey were lots of fighting games that never made it big that did have flashy CGI cutscenes. IF every game with CGI cutscenes automatically sold well, the industry would have way more million selllers. VF 1 to 3 tb, which I bought all of and played religiously, sold poorly because they were on the SAturn and Dreamcast, failure systems(which I supported) .
IF VF 1 to 3 were on PS one and two, and Tekken series was strictly on Saturn and Dreamcast, we'd have way more VF players, VF would be a household name and TEkken would be an obscure fighting game struggling for recognition. ( Like Fighting vipers 1 and 2 and Last Bronx. )


We'd be analzing Tekken now and saying the extra flash and no substance were its downfall , not its strength.
Anyway, TEKKEN Vs VFis an awesome idea, its the best since Fighters Megamix. As for the controls, keep the guessing game for throw escapes bettween, VF vs VF chars and TEkken Vs Tekken Chars, but baseline Throw escapes for Tekken vs VF . On the VF side, just make P+G the universal throw escape against tekken chars and rp rk or lp lk the loosely universal accepted TE input for Tekken guys. Give VFer the runnig slide moves and running kick and shoulder ram moves they had in Fighter Megamix, to balance out their dynamic movement speed with the tekken guys.
Implement the weight sysyem more of Vf over tekkens endless juggles they do off a jab.

The most important part of a Tekken vs VF game is its an opportunity to give US players VF 5 R!!!!

In Tekken vs VF5 R, give player Jean Kujo and Taka arashi!!!. Implement all the latest VF5 R move updates , Item win poses, stages and new music they put in VF5 R. Then VF5R would actually sell well this time. ITs the perfect opportunity.
Those of you as old as I am know that all Saturn owners were bummed we were'nt getting VF3 on the saturn, and it and the upgrade cartiridge planned to make it possible were cancelled. Well Sega tried to make it up to us Saturn owners because Fighters Megamix implemented all VF3 move updates and Even Gave us an AOI in disguise ; Jane from Virtua Cop. (although she didnt exactly stick to Vf3 cannon, she used a pistol). Jane Had all or 90 percent of Aoi's moves.

While we may never Get VF5 R in its purest form, a game in the spirit of Fighter Megamix would be a long lost blessing. MAke it happen. Just dont give Taka a shortgun

 

I'd like to see VF vs Tekken.

The cast would be HUGE, considering that Namco has started including EVERY CHARACTER EVER in Tekken. I'm not sure if they would keep doing that or not for a crossover, but VF would have to keep every single character, because the cast list is so small (compared to other fighting games).

I'd like to see how the realism of the VF fighters would mesh with the flash of Tekken. I'd also like to see how the gameplay would turn out, since Tekken 6 has implemented the 'extra bounce' moves and the Rage system.

With the popularity of Tekken in America, I think it would sell well. And, once people start picking up the VF characters, maybe they'll start picking up the game, too. CvS got me into KOF, after all. More VF fans = better chance of getting sequels and updates ported to this country.

Couldn't hurt to have a crossover. At least, Capcom seems to think so. xDDD

 

WORD UP!!!

 

Actually, it's not bullshit. VF was also on the PS2, don't forget. But it didn't sell well. They were not Sega-only exclusives.

Whoever edits the VF wikipedia page even states something along the lines that SC cannibalized VF thanks to its visuals.


And to quote a feature article on The Simpsons:

"...then someone showed us this study Fox had done: the number one reason why people liked The Simpsons was 'all the pretty colors', and they liked it when Homer hit his head..."
-Jay Kogen, Comedy Writer on The Simpsons

I've also got a kid, and when my kid's friends drop by, they never touch VF. It's always Tekken DR or SF4 because "Devil Jin and Jinpachi are so cool!" and "The bear is really strong!" or "Ultra Combo! I beat you! I beat you!"

So I ask: "what do the other kids play at school?"
"Tekken!"
"Street Fighter!"
"Final Fantasy!"
"Mario Kart!"
"Super Smash Brothers!"
"Dead or Alive!"
"NBA games. Others play Soccer, like FIFA!"
"And Need for Speed!"

"What about Virtua Fighter?"

"What's that?"
"Dad, nobody likes that cuz it's boring."
"I think <insert name here> plays that, but he's the only one. He plays Tekken more though."

VF just doesn't appeal to the casual players market. It's just not Hollywood enough. I even tried teaching them once, and this was their reply (quote unquote):

"Huh? What? You need to STUDY THIS GAME to play it? Can't we just play something else instead?"


Looking cool/cool characters has a LOT to do with selling. It isn't to be underestimated.

 

VF4 sold enough for 4EVO to be a greatest hits game.

VF4 pushed plenty of hardware (sticks, PS2 consoles).

And VF4/EVO/FT DOMINATED in the arcades in Japan and did quite well in Korea.

VF4 was a large success.

And if it means dumbing down the game in terms of depth and character realism to sell more copies like Tekken you can count me out.