Namco still up for Tekken vs. VF

Bear in mind that I'm not doubting the worldwide success of VF (I clarified this below - I am strictly talking about NA when I mention sales). Nor it's quality. But since the discussion has turned towards the "casual" market (for lack of a better term), I am merely pointing out that, in order to broaden VF's appeal, it does need some "spicing up".

I can actually go into depth (social factors, trends, etc.), but I honestly don't have the spare time to do so. The simple solution is: "VF needs to be cooler." That single phrase means: better advertising, better marketing, better story, and more character personality.

VF's gameplay IS it's saving grace (as one poster pointed out). Again, I am not trying to trash VF here. I would be more than happy if VF suddenly shot up the charts, and sold so many copies that I can find comp anywhere and everywhere.

Times have changed... VF needs to be a bit more "in step" with the current trends. That doesn't mean dumbing down the gameplay. It just has to do with appealing to the youth/young adults market more.

Initial Appeal is very important now, especially with the amount of competition. Just this year, how many fighting games are coming out? SF4? Tekken? BlazBlue? KOF? Dissidia? SC is still new. Now we have downloadable fighting games. Don't forget FFXIII, God of War, etc.

There are a lot of great games out now. VF isn't just fighting Tekken here. It's fighting for space and attention against games with great stories, characters, and visuals.

And that affects the bottomline. VF needs to sell for Sega to support it. Initial Appeal helps sell games. Again, as I've said: Visuals aren't to be underestimated.

 

assuming that vf5r were to come out (or vf6 for that matter), if they added all of the items/costumes in the previous vf5s(even the ones that never made stateside) and marketed those particular items and how "crazy" the combinations could get, it might seel better (lightning arms, giant sumo, weapon win poses, intros, etc)...

even still, sega would have to do some serious advertising like they attempted to when vf5 first dropped... i mean every magazine, tv show, gamestore, and end-of-the-world preacher should have some type of vf5r poster or commercial playing... i think that, and only that-- ok that and word of mouth, will get the sales to tekken 3 status (i believe that's still the most sold tekken game to date-- correct me if im wrong...)

 

My fault for not clarifying. I was talking about NA sales.

VF4:EVO reportedly sold 1.7M copies worldwide. Small wonder that the bulk of those sales are from Japan and Korea. Places where people... drumroll... generally take games seriously (practically a sport if you ask me).

In NA, and a few other parts of the world, games are mostly played for entertainment.

But, it has nothing to do with dumbing down the game. Spicing it up and making it appeal to regular people doesn't mean you have to dumb it down. All you need is a few CG's and story cutscenes, hire UDON to make a few promotional comic books (Namco did for SC, Capcom did for SF), and then give the characters some sort of kiddie "secrets", like rivals talking more during matches (a la SF4).

As I said before: if you guys don't care about a story mode (you are buying a game without one), then why do you care if one is added? It doesn't affect you, but it attracts new people. So what's the problem?

 

Man, there's a lot of misconceptions here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
VF4 sold enough for 4EVO to be a greatest hits game. </div></div>

Sega wanted Evo to be a full-price game in NA, like it was in Japan and Europe. The reason Evo instantly went GH wasn't because of sales (though VF4 did go GH), but because SCEA wouldn't let the game be sold otherwise.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VF4:EVO reportedly sold 1.7M copies worldwide. Small wonder that the bulk of those sales are from Japan and Korea. </div></div>

VF4Evo actually didn't do as well in its Japanese PS2 release as Sega expected - mainly because they decided to launch it the same day as Final Fantasy X-2. Not the best idea, that!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Places where people... drumroll... generally take games seriously (practically a sport if you ask me). ...In NA, and a few other parts of the world, games are mostly played for entertainment.</div></div>

This is a really ridiculous generalization. The "games are srs bzns" crowd in these countries is a mere fraction of the gaming population, mush like in North America, despite what anyone raving about Japanese arcades and Korean Starcraft TV broadcasts says about them. Hell, the whole trend of not-really-"games" "utility software" for the DS and PSP originates from Japan. I'd say we have a higher number of "hardcore gamers" from sheer population numbers alone.

 

As usual i have to agree with Zero-chan. For more "games are srs bzns" please refer to the Marvel vs Capcom 2 thread /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

As far as "studying" is concerned, yes, it can take you a long way in VF - but so can flawless execution or good intuition.

 

I will concede that your point regarding the hardcore gamers:general population ratio does have merit. However, if you take that into account, and then bring into topic the not-so-good sales of VF5 on consoles, that actually turns into a disturbing issue.

In essence (ok, In my opinion), that would further strengthen the argument that VF needs to appeal to casuals in order to sell more.

How that is going to be accomplished is still the issue, and having looked at the way Capcom and Namco have handled their end of the fighting game market, the only thing that VF is missing/different (e.g. what it does not "push") from games such as SF and Tekken are: 1)Story, 2)Characters with distinct/unique appearances/personalities, 3)Flashy-ness, and 4)additional exposure/marketing/brand awareness.

My apologies for being overly pragmatic, but if you look at it from a business point of view, you are comparing a set of similar products (fighting games) against one another, and you need to ask "if this is the best one, why isn't it selling as well as the others?"

And so you compare each of their similarities and USP's. The top fighters (SF, Tekken, SC, and VF) are all generally ranked highly by reviewers. All are considered "deep" games. All (save for SC) have had arcade exposure. All have modes that allow online competition.

Yet, the best one (VF), didn't sell as well as it should. SF4 shipped 2M copies in its first month (or was it week?). SC has sold 2M copies as well. You can bet that Tekken will sell more than SC, especially with the way both Namco and Microsoft are hyping it. While VF5 only sold 700,000+ copies?

Which brings me back to what I said: VF is the only game that doesn't have a proper story, additional marketing (UDON comics et al), character development, and endings/cut-scenes.

Sure, we can say that "VF launched at the wrong time" or "VF launched on the wrong system", etc. But VF5 was launched on the 2 consoles which cater to gamers who are in VF's target market, and it was raved about by critics everywhere. Yet, it still didn't sell well enough.

As I said: I love VF, but if doesn't sell more, we all know what Sega's decision is going to be, and none of us want to see that happen.

 

A lot of people are looking at this like VF v Tekken would be the next installment in the VF series; it wouldn't. It would be a crossover game, the same way that MvC was not the next SF game, and CvS was not the next KOF game.

If it would get people to buy more VF5, I don't see why not. It would be a game separate from VF and Tekken. It's not like we wouldn't get R or VF6 because of it. It could only increase our chances of getting future games/updates/patches.

At the end of the day, SuperPanda's right; VF's problem isn't the game. It's the marketing, and the lack of online (for PS3 owners), and other fancy features that other fighters have. Sega doesn't need to change the game; just their marketing. And, I think it would be more cost-effective for Sega and Namco to make VF vs Tekken.

 

I was thinking about this today, and I realized that if a crossover game ever happened, it would be a great time to "reboot" the characters.

You could have the "rebooted" designs as either default or the alternate costume (much like SF4's alternate costumes)plus background story CG's. It would be a good way to create more awareness, and use it as a platform to point the series in a new direction (art and style wise).

 

^^^^Thank you, only those who ignore the facts would omit that VF4 sold mor on Ps2 than VF ever sold on Saturn or DC. Plus VF4 was lauded by the press , and finally got widespread recognition it deserved from mainstream media .

 

Hows about no it didnt.

VF2 on Saturn sold more then VF4 on PS2 did.
It stands at around 2 million units on a far smaller userbase.

 

According to guinness world records gamer edition, VF4 sold 500000 copies during its first weekend, making it the fastest selling sega game.

 

It backfired.

 

Is Saturn VF2 the highest selling VF game to date? I always thought it was.

 

Yup, Saturn VF2 has been the highest selling VF game.

 

^^^Obviously that includes the Japanese market, where VF2 was nearly as popular as Pacman. How about VF2 Saturns sales in the North American market only , versus North American sales of PS 2 Saturn.

 

i have always fucking hated tekken's character designs. stupid fucking bad 90's anime (IN THE BAD WAY) designs taken way too far infused with belts and zippers bullshit of most ps1 games = fucking kill me now ugh. i've always loved vf's characters personally, because they're subtle yet all have their own lovable trademarks (like the winquotes they've had since vf2).

seriously though, look back at all of the things tekken had going for it. it was on the ps1 (say what you will, but that counted for the success of many game series), it used pre-rendered cgi for it's cutscenes (something that was common practice for ps1 games, and did a good job of fooling the public into thinking the graphics were better than they really were) and it had the appeal of being easy to pick up and play. vf2, on the other hand, was on the saturn, didn't use any cgi (granted, the graphics for it's time were incredible, but it lacked the retard appeal that tekken's cgi did) and required you to actually learn the game in order to be good at it.

most important of all though was being on the ps1. look at all of the series that are prominent today; many of them got their break on the ps1/ps2. vf didn't hit a sony console until vf4, and by then they had already lost their chance at becoming a household name in the us.

tekken sells because it has far more casual appeal, period (the shit looking action game that comes with tekken 6 on consoles is just further proof of this). if am2 wants to compete in the casual fighter market they're gonna have to make a completely new game, independent of the name virtua fighter.

and it could probably work. arcsys makes incredible fighters, but guilty gear has always appealed to the animefag crowd much like blazblue has/will. it isn't impossible to make a good fighter with casual appeal, it would just ruin vf for me if it suddenly took a turn for the retarded in the name of attracting casual players.

 

^
You Really hate anime huh?

 

no, but i hate the vast majority of anime fans.

tekken's character designs are like an unironically bad 90's anime though. people with hair taller than their fucking heads, people with tiger heads, bears, etc.

 

Blaze has a lion head for an item... Lau has a dragon head for an item... iirc Jeffry now has a shark head for an item...