Namco versus Capcom

Whoops, thanks for the correction.

If there's anything to be mad about, it's that this fighting game revival is driven stateside by a single game. In light of that fact, it's probably a net positive that Namco is getting that extra boost from SF4's popularity.

 

This is crazy. I don't like Tekken but Namco comes for their fans. Why can't Sega? I love Virtua Fighter more than Tekken but Sega, Namco is moving. Come on Sega let's go. If Sega is going to be stupid and continue to fail to lesson to the fan base then they deserve to go under. It is the fans that keep a game franchise and game companies going.

 

Have you guys heard that SF vs TK will not come out until 2012 at the earliest and the vid was just a teaser. I really commend them saying that at least Sega won't tell us anything that far ahead but Capcom will. The Sega's behavior doesn't shock me anymore but it does shock me as far as how bold Capcom is say what they did.

 

Might I ask what it is you love so much about VF over other fighters

 

Knew that, before they told us. Long way out. Good, room for VFFS.

 

ON SxT
I think the two properties will work well together. And the demonstration of SxT (not to be confused with sexting) looked fine by me.

Tekken and Street Fighter seem (to me anyways) to have a lot in common as far as fighting game design philosophy. How vital footsie/zoning and damage maximizing are in the games being the primary example.

The tricky part to me isn't so much the projectiles (I think that's an easy problem that's already been solved), but adjusting Tekken for cornertrap (maybe as opposed to wall-rape) mindgames and adjusting how jump-ins work in the game (I also don't see it being that major of an issue, but it could go in many design directions).

The tag mechanic will also offset some of the big differences (allowing the games to play a bit more like themselves). We'll see what Namco's implementation will be like.

Though the Ryu vs. Kazuya demonstration was meant to illustrate and show specific parts of the gameplay, I enjoyed it.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to these two games, I think it should work out well. Capcom will have an interesting idea while Namco also has its own interesting ideas. It's crazy, but cool that two studios will make similar products without much interaction at all.

ON WHAT I LIKE ABOUT VF
To answer the person asking what it is that one likes about VF, Personally, I like VF's flow and options. If you know what you are doing, you can create, push, and overturn advantage and the fight keeps on going. VF has a lot of footsie and a lot of damage maximizing like SF and Tekken, but I think it is very grounded in the decisions you make during the hand-to-hand exchanges and all the options you really have open to you.

Tekken and Street Fighter have some very clear-cut answers for situations and I think those games reward reflex and execution more than Virtua Fighter does.

Virtua Fighter still definitely rewards reflex and execution (it's a big differentiator in high level play), but... I believe that VF gives you more mindgame options to sometimes force gambles or providing the means to minimize them. A mindgame can help neutralize a natural (talent) advantage--but it still requires skill and discipline to do this too.

I also believe that VF so far has the most dynamic handling of the initiative (who has the advantage in the match). It exchanges at a ridiculous pace and I find it exciting.

VF might be the only fighting game series where I have felt like I was doing Pak-Sao in the game. It's not the only way to play VF (there is lots of spacing and comboing in VF), but it's a fundamental of VF I just haven't felt in other fighting games.

Unfortunately, feeling the initiative in VF takes a lot of experience and comfort with the game.

 

namco and capcom gives fans which they not even think about it or dream of it without a petition or beg.... and SEGA.... fuck u sega.

 

I like VF4evo and VF5 because... as a casual fighting game fan, I have played many many fighting games since the days of SF1. I can count on 1 hand the fighting games that give even the casual player a sense of its potential depth and rewards, without becoming too extreme/elitist in a specific design direction (for example, infinite combos, parrying):

Street Fighter 2 (in its time)
Samurai Shodown 2
SFA3
VF4evo/VF5

Of these, I found the potential depth/rewards of VF design the most tantalizing and the most fun. Maybe it's a personal preference, or maybe it's just that good in design.

It sure ain't because I prefer the character designs or stories.

 

Totally this.

A beautiful and coincise way to describe VF.

I've always thought that tekken is really similiar to SF, and in the other hand (by a less extent) VF is kinda closer to KOF.

 

Heh, if you mean popular reception in the USA, then yeah, VF is closer to KoF while Tekken is closer to SF.

But I consider KoF to have better chara design, better aesthetics, and better plot compared to SF... which VF cannot say for itself.

Can't say gameplay wise... not familiar enough with high-level Tekken.

 

Uh, i've never taken in consideration aesthetics or story in any game so, no. I was talking gameplay wise obviously.

 

Don't know KOF too well but it seems to give the attacker and defender more options over a typical SF game which is what I like about VF. It has hop, hyper hop and super jump as well as roll and guard cancel and quite a lot of characters have command throws. I think they removed the guard breaking charge attacks but implemented a guard gauge in KOF13 among many other additions.

These 2 VS games are 2 years away with Namco's version even further away so there not competition for an FS console release. MK9 doesn't have date either so that may be some way off too and so is SF3:3S online. KOF13 I'm very interested in and I think it'll get tournament spots/events and people playing but I doubt it's gonna be a big commercial success. The UK release will probably be really delayed and come in limited quantities with no advertising like 12 did. The big competition they would need to worry about is MVC3.

 

Coincidentally the only characters I ever liked in KOF are Ralph and Clark. The whole game is just to androgynous for me and I think a lot of americans design wise. SF characters are a little raged but as a child of the 80's it's what I've come to identify with. (Cues Hulk Hogan music and watches Commando)

 

I like VF character design over Tekken character design.

 

GE is right, Sega doesn't deserve the few fans that it has. They have and continue making horrible business decisions, they don't support or listen to their fans outside of Japan... sorry guys, but Sega deserves to lose.

Both Capcom and Namco have been listening to their fans and supporting them. Both of them deserve all of the money they get. If the fans ask them to "dumb down the gameplay" or "take it back to the SF2 days" or "put in more items and make it so that you can use them" or they ask for more juggles, more floats, more whatever... and both Capcom and Namco listen to their fans and give them what they want, well then, THEY DESERVE ALL OF THE SUCCESS THAT THEY'RE HAVING.


Sega has made some great fighting games, I give them that. Those games still deserve to be played to this day.
But...
Sega has totally blown way too many opportunities with VF for it to ever be able to compete.
Sega, SELL THE FUCKING FRANCHISE. SELL VIRTUA FIGHTER TO EITHER CAPCOM OR NAMCO. THEY KNOW HOW TO MARKET A GAME AND THEY ACTUALLY GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT THEIR CONSUMERS OUTSIDE OF FUCKING JAPAN.
SEGA, IT'S TIME TO SELL.
SEGA, WE WANT A NEW VIRTUA FIGHTER GAME ON OUR CONSOLES THIS YEAR. IF YOU WON'T COMPLY, LET SOMEBODY ELSE TAKE THE JOB.
GIVE THE FUCKING FANS WHAT THEY FUCKING WANT.

/rant.

Edit: I had to quote this:
"SF4 doesn't need me to argue for it, that's what you guys don't get. 10 years lapsed between 3S and SF4. The Street Fighter community brought that series back from the extinction through hard work and dedication, not whining and bitching. I only interject to try and give you guys some perspective."

^I have to agree with this. SF fans didn't give up on SF. They had a few other Capcom titles to mess around with but they remained faithful to SSF2 and 3rdStrike. Organizing tourneys, get-togethers. They never gave up on their favorite fighter.
I'm giving up on Sega but I'm not giving up on VF. Whatever next VF gathering comes up, if I can make it, I will be there.

 

After watching the Capcom panel on Comic-con... and seeing how they, or even Namco, interact with their fans... Fuck Sega up the ass with a huge, pink, giraffe shaped dildo!

(Note: It's not VF I don't like, it's Sega).

In short, I completely agree with Tony.

 

I don't.

I really think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. Capcom doesn't love its fans. At least, whether or not it loves its fans is irrelevant in terms of why these games get made. What they love is their fans' money. The fans demonstrated through their continued support of Capcom fighting games (and not just being really big fans, but actually growing and raising the visibility of the fanbase even when Capcom wasn't making fighting games) that there was money to be made there. So, Capcom is finally tapping into this resource. If the sales fade, so will this Capcom "love."

I don't know if that potential exists with VF and Sega. VF has never really been popular enough outside of Japan to stir that kind of community support (and let's be honest, without the Canons, the Capcom community probably wouldn't exist either), and Sega is struggling just to survive (it also doesn't help that SoJ has never really understood any market other than its home territory). In my view, this is simply Sega accurately reading the market conditions. For VF to become a priority for Sega outside of Japan, the market needs to change.

 

Tony didn't mention "love". he mentioned marketing.

 

You're right actually.

My point is that I think that Capcom and Sega are just doing business. The business of Capcom right now is servicing their fanbase; Sega doesn't really have a VF fanbase outside of Japan to service.

 

Don't know why I forgot to mention KOF, but temporarily while that's brought up (not to derail the actual topic of this thread)...

I really like KOF these days. I'm pretty lousy at the games, to be honest, but I plan to commit to XIII.

That said, I do love how KOF has mindgames that can be played up close as well. For me, it has at times felt a little bit like VF because it really does give you those mindgames without sacrificing initiative.

What separates KoF and VF (not in terms of better or worse, but in terms of the way the game seems to play in my eyes) is the momentum of KoF. In KoF, the initiative changes more than most other fighters--like VF does. But rushdowns in KoF are nuts!

It's hard to explain for me, especially because I'm not well-versed in KoF... It's like some of the mindgames with VF are there and they give the defender a chance to turn things around, but despite that... the rushdown advantage is like something out of Tekken. As many options as you have when you're being rushed down, the pressure is high and it's rough.

But that is what I like about the KoF flow. Actually, it's what I love about it... The game has a lot of footsie (with lots of spacing tools too), some great guessing games you can force on the other player (this part feels like VF), but once you get someone into something serious--it's got like Tekken momentum. Actually, scratch that, KoF's momentum is its own beast. It's long, not too long (like Guilty Gear), but damn it's punishing!

I really hope KOF XIII has good netplay. I know I shouldn't expect that, but I really hope it does...

The only two fighting franchises I've been passionate about the past year or so are VF and KOF. I really like Tekken and SF, but I'm nuts for VF and KOF.

-Chanchai