New DOA Preview

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Liquid_MAX said:

Did I dream hearing this, or is it indeed true that the DOA engine was based on Suzuki's engine for VF?

In other words, DOA is a derivation of VF (then again, I suppose the entire genre of 3D beat-'em-ups kind of is).

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Yeah it is.

The original DoA was produced with input from AM2 on the Model2 hardware and the game system and logic was derived from a reworked VF2 model.

Thats pretty much common knoledge I thought.

 

Re: Doa Revisions

Haha, classic:

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GI: Are you looking to do more of the human-like enemies or is this, because at least as far as I know for Hurricane Pack 1 it’s going to be more human-type enemies, more of the ninjas and things like that. Are you going for more monsters in Hurricane Pack 2?

Itagaki: So when you say human-type enemies I’m not sure what you mean by that, but to me human-type enemy only means that it’s got a head and arms and legs and a midsection. But, I mean, it has to look like a real human.

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Fishie said:




Yeah it is.

The original DoA was produced with input from AM2 on the Model2 hardware and the game system and logic was derived from a reworked VF2 model.

Thats pretty much common knoledge I thought.

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-Kinda Sorta... AM2 had no Imput on The Model 2 board or The game system/mechanics. Doa was modeled after Vf2 but its system was not a reworked Vf2 engine..ie Using Vf2 than creating a new game.

Here is what Itagaki says about the subject:

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Itagaki: Influence aside, without Virtua Fighter, there couldn't have been DOA. It's that simple. Sega and AM2 didn't give me any technical help or lend me their code or anything like thatâ€â€we made DOA from scratch, but VF2 was definitely the pioneer. Because of this game, we now have DOA and Tekken. I spent a lot of time playing VF2. I like Sarah and Pai.

XBN: Have you ever expressed these sentiments to [VF2 creator] Yu Suzuki?

Itagaki: We've only had one conversation, and it wasn't really about his game. We talked more about the technology behind 3D fighters. At the time, I was struggling with getting our punches to look smooth and realistic in DOA, so I looked up Suzuki to consult him on the matter. To show respect to him, I gave him a detailed write-up of my problem, which was around three or four pages, and took it with me to visit him. Since it was the first time meeting him, I was a bit nervous, and right off the bat, Suzuki told me he didn't like reading papers. [Laughs]

XBN: So did he hook you up?

Itagaki: Well, he didn't give me any real direct answers, but he did tell me one thing, probably unintentionally. He told me that what I'm doing, technologically anyway, is completely different than what he's working on. When he said that, I know he didn't base it on any actual facts, since I didn't give him any real data. But when someone with the stature of Yu Suzuki tells me that we're doing two different things, technologically, it really pushed me to find the solution on my own. What's important in development is knowing whether something is possible. Once you know that, then the rest is easy.

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Here is a link to the interview: www.xbnmag.com/article2/0...422,00.asp

-so as you can see, Itagaki didn't get anything from Am2, But he was told what he was doing was wrong and he was very much influenced and Respects Vf2 and its creator AM2(which you can clearly see in his product).


Anyway, I made a mistake about the new four point system thingy. Instead of splitting Mid attacks by kick and punch, Team Ninja is adding another hit level. So there are going to be like 4 (5 if you count super high)hit levels while standing..ie High, High Mid, Low mid and Low. The Holds should look something like this:

High Hold
High Mid hold
low mid hold
Low Hold

-This should be interesting, It seems like TM is actually working on Evolving Doa's fighting system. I hope it works for the betterment of the game /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif
adios people.

 

Well thats whats being said NOW.
Back then it was a different story.

Part of the story few people know about is that Suzuki got angry becouse DoA(a first effort on the Sega Model2 hardware by team Ninja)from a graphical point of view pissed all over AM2s own efforts and demanded that Sega would stop liscensing the hardware to others.
Which subsequently happened(Jaleco too had a Model2 game out back then that did things the Sega arcade peeps had not figured out themselves yet).

 

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Fishie said:

Well thats whats being said NOW.
Back then it was a different story.

Part of the story few people know about is that Suzuki got angry becouse DoA(a first effort on the Sega Model2 hardware by team Ninja)from a graphical point of view pissed all over AM2s own efforts and demanded that Sega would stop liscensing the hardware to others.
Which subsequently happened(Jaleco too had a Model2 game out back then that did things the Sega arcade peeps had not figured out themselves yet).

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-If what you say is true, than The story Coincide with what your saying right now. If you read between the lines, Yu Suzuki didn't want to help Itagaki. He didn't go over his Algorithm problems and he didn't look at the data that Itagaki brought over for observation. The thing is, We will never know the full 100% story. But from articles on the net, both developers respect each other. Here is what Suzuki had to say about Doa and Itagaki:

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XBN: You might have read in interviews with producer [Tomonobu] Itagaki at Tecmo, that he considers Dead or Alive 3 to be the premier fighting game on the market, and quite vocally attacks other fighting game makers as being out of date. How would you react to this?

Suzuki: [Pauses] Fighting games are like Chinese food. Some people like stir fry, some crispy duck. Virtua Fighter has exceptional depth as a series. People are still playing Virtua Fighter 3 years later! It depends what you look for in a fighting game.

XBN: Do you think Virtua Fighter is a deeper series than Dead or Alive?

Suzuki: I haven't really played it enough to judge. Maybe Virtua Fighter is a deeper series. The thing is, Dead or Alive hasn't been around long enough to really judge its longevity and depth as a fighter in the same terms as Virtua Fighter.

XBN: In that sense, don't you think Itagaki is out of order to so quickly criticize those who pretty much invented the genre?

Suzuki: I don't take it seriously. He's just promoting his game. He's making it like two boxers in a ring, throwing down the gauntlet. You know, that's fine. It's a good promotional tactic. I have no problems with however he wants to do that.


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-back on topic. I noticed that alot of the stages are more flatter than those in doa3. There is less undulation and sloaps this time around, and The stages seem to be more square Like compared to the circular stages that was presented in Doa3.

 

So the previous algoritm help is not the case anymore...

I still think that the hell freezes before VF goes to net play. Not because Sega wants competitive perfection but because Sega on Japan out and get shitloads of money from japanese arcade scene. It´s a totally logical thing.

 

Dead or Alive ultimate still have not released yet...WTF... But alot of new stages have been revieled(absolutely incredable). Here are some Scans:

http://www.doatec.com/scans/FW_08Oct04_01.jpg
http://www.doatec.com/scans/FW_08Oct04_02.jpg

-The first scan looks like Doa's Aquarium mixed with Vf2's underwater atlantis stage.

 

virtuapai, do you know where are the character portraits on the front page of doatec.com from? There are alot of costumes that i've never seen before. Are they home made stuff?

 

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Srider said:

virtuapai, do you know where are the character portraits on the front page of doatec.com from? There are alot of costumes that i've never seen before. Are they home made stuff?

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-All of the costumes are in Game. Some are different variations, and you may have to press X,Y or the black and white button to get them. Some cosyumes you may even have to get a booster disk for...which version of Doa3 do you have? American or Any where else?

or

-You are talking about the Gallery and the characters having NEW costumes. The New costumes that you are seeing are actually from doaXBV and DoaU.

 

could anybody tell me if dead or alive has an official website that is smiliar to VFDC as in has video footage of top doa players and forums to talk strategies and charachters???? as i really would like to getbetter at this game.

 

hahaha, u wanna get better? okay, learn these moves, as they will save ur life:



+,+, and last but not least +


= free button, tho cant remember cuz i dont play broken stuff....still, whateva floats ur boat............

 

Post deleted. (almost)

 

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geewai_ho said:

could anybody tell me if dead or alive has an official website that is smiliar to VFDC as in has video footage of top doa players and forums to talk strategies and charachters???? as i really would like to getbetter at this game.

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Go to www.doacentral.com. Thanks for asking.

 

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kingsouther said:

hahaha, u wanna get better? okay, learn these moves, as they will save ur life:



+,+, and last but not least +


= free button, tho cant remember cuz i dont play broken stuff....still, whateva floats ur boat............

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-Are you serious? Your setting up the kid to be thrown to death. You might as well tell him to poke with slow throw couterable moves....its practically the same.

 

I'm sorry Virtuapai, you seem really nice (and we've had fun in the past) but please stop doing that "You're setting youself up to be thrown!" bs when someone says holds are abuseable. Ppl freakin try holds more then gaurding almost - just look at a gameplay film and see how many whiffed holds, without being thrown, there are. You know this to be true. If someone was whiffing throwanimations (similar frametime) in the air in VF alot (say just twice) he would be fucked up beyond belief while in DOA ppl even try consecutive holds to defend their first whiff. That's all imo ofc, I don't expect you to agree /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Anyways; I'm also really looking forward to watching DOU and if they've really pulled of the online function (which it so far seems they have) it's a freakin revolution for fightinggames and shouldn't be thought easy of. Even if it's not totally perfect and it's 60fps it's still awesome cause we have to start somewhere. Go go VF5 online ^__^-V

/KiwE

 

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I'm sorry Virtuapai, you seem really nice (and we've had fun in the past) but please stop doing that "You're setting youself up to be thrown!" bs when someone says holds are abuseable.

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-The term abusable wasn't used here btw. kingsouther stated that holds would allow him to get better. If your new to the game, holds are not going to make you any better. You whiff the hold, you are put at 30 frame disadvantage...ie your opponent gets a free launcher or a free throw of their choice.

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Ppl freakin try holds more then gaurding almost - just look at a gameplay film and see how many whiffed holds, without being thrown, there are. You know this to be true.

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-This does not allude from the fact that holds are very punishable. There is no way around being disadvantaged for 30 frames. If your opponent opt not to throw, thats not evidence of holds not being very punishable. The game was built to punish whiffed holds..ie 30 frame disadvantage, and 150% damage for thowing your holding opponent.

-You can go to doacentrals homepage, and watch the new vids that was posted, you can see holds being punished.

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If someone was whiffing throwanimations (similar frametime) in the air in VF alot (say just twice) he would be fucked up beyond belief while in DOA ppl even try consecutive holds to defend their first whiff. That's all imo ofc, I don't expect you to agree

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-People do use two consecutive holds after another...but you have to ask yourself Why? The answer(s):

1)if your not being punished the first time, why are you going to stop using it.

2) As you just stated, an opponent who whiffs throws in Vf4 will be severly punished..in other words, your opponent will automatically react to the whiff throw and attack. In Doa, you are expecting your opponent to just jump up and attack, so you would do another hold. You as the better player need to controll your urge to automatically attack, and learn to throw during those situacions,use a delayed attack, attack at a different height, or time your attack so it will hit your opponent during the holds recovery... you can compare this to someone who SS in Vf4. You are not going to just use a linear attack knowing your opponent is going to SS. You either have to throw, use a circular attack(or half circular) or delayed attack.

3) As stated above, You are expecting your opponent to attack. So you can use the hold offencively to draw in your opponent, and buffer in an attack from the hold(a technique that is not realy used in other fighters).

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Anyways; I'm also really looking forward to watching DOU and if they've really pulled of the online function (which it so far seems they have) it's a freakin revolution for fightinggames and shouldn't be thought easy of. Even if it's not totally perfect and it's 60fps it's still awesome cause we have to start somewhere. Go go VF5 online ^__^-V

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-Yeah I know. Mortal Kombat is online, but its features pale to that of Doa's. The creators of Doa went for a higher standard...almost duplicating the real arcade experience.

 

thx for the links, nice site and vids, do u play lei fang too???, for some reason i always go for the chinese babe players, like lei-fang, pai, chun li etc.

 

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geewai_ho said:

thx for the links, nice site and vids, do u play lei fang too???, for some reason i always go for the chinese babe players, like lei-fang, pai, chun li etc.

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-Yeah, I play leifang and Pai, they are like my favorite characters to use. Some of my vids are on the front page Btw.

-Now Im super excited. Dre and the rest of the people who are playing MKD are saying that there is little to no lag at all. MKD is a decent fighter, but when DoaU gets online.....Thats the game that will realy see if its possible to put the Soul caliburs, tekkens and virtua fighters online.

-If DoaU is as good or better online(connection wise) compared to MKD, than I will be in heaven. The virtual arcade mode is set up just like an arcade. I can play against you Kiwe and talk mad shit, while other people are watching. There is a sparring mode inwhich we can pratice and learn new strats. damn, do you guys know what that means. Lets say vf4 was online and this was enabled. You dont need to argure wether strat A) or B) is stronger, you can prove it online. But best of all, everyone will get the comp that everyone was complaining about(especially us doa players).

-If Sega realy cared about their fans(especailly out side of Japan), they could have Vf next online...its not like they distribute alot of arcade units out side of Japan.

 

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"-If Sega realy cared about their fans(especailly out side of Japan), they could have Vf next online...its not like they distribute alot of arcade units out side of Japan."

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If SEGA really cared about their fans you say?

What about Otenami Haiken 4? It cost a fricking dollar to enter. SEGA set up the entire thing. Gave the winner a special ranking.

I agree that SEGA needs to up their marketing effort in the states, but SEGA cares a lot about their fans. There's just little to no demand for VF in the states. You can't sell VF machines to arcades who don't want to buy them, and the arcades aren't buying anything these days, because they are shutting down.

I do hope that VF can be done online, but I have my doubts. I still don't think that it'll be 100% perfect... but at the same time, I guess it would raise interest in the states. That is, if people fricking buy the game in the first place... =P

 

the reason there is no online for vf is that there is no market for online vf - in japan vf arcade scene still dominates.

considering that sega is still in massive debt and arcades provides its primary source of revenue - sega logically doubles their efforts to promote the arcade scene via tournaments, kumites and other events.

Sega then releases a home port with a very nicely presented and executed quest mode, tons of training, and even videos of high level play. I think thats pretty much caring for fans. VF thrives in japan and basically no where else. Its a huge investment risk to set up a network and invest in research for a game no one plays outside of japan anyways.


DOA on the other hand, never even came out for arcade. So what does Tecmo do, try to create a virtual arcade experience in hopes of luring new fans, in a country devoid of xboxs. Will it have quest mode or even training like VF does. Probably not, but to each companies own, they support fans in their own way.

on a side note, do you do anything else other than troll DOA on VFDC?