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The one thing SEGA should do is the following:

Invest in one, just one, well thought-through marketing campaign in Europe and the US (read: DON'T give it to the folks that screwed up the DC campaign!)

The message they should try to convey should be sth. like: VF (as well as Outrun2 for that matter) is for the Hardcore players. MK (or Burnout3, to stay with this example) is for the more casual players.

Kids everywhere like to think of themselves as being "hardcore" (w00t!) and they'd flock to those games in the US and Europe, too.

PS: It would probably also help, if SEGA supported publishing those Master Guides (or whatever they're called) in English.

 

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KTallguy said:

If SEGA really cared about their fans you say?

What about Otenami Haiken 4? It cost a fricking dollar to enter. SEGA set up the entire thing. Gave the winner a special ranking.

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-Your right, but my focus was towards outside of Japan.

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I agree that SEGA needs to up their marketing effort in the states, but SEGA cares a lot about their fans. There's just little to no demand for VF in the states. You can't sell VF machines to arcades who don't want to buy them, and the arcades aren't buying anything these days, because they are shutting down.

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-In the end, this leaves the fans outside of Japan looking for some type of competition. The arcades are not doing well, but Consoles are. This is what Im talking about concerning online play...and this is where fighting games are headed.

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I do hope that VF can be done online, but I have my doubts. I still don't think that it'll be 100% perfect... but at the same time, I guess it would raise interest in the states. That is, if people fricking buy the game in the first place... =P

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-Of course it would help out in the states. Vf4+ Vf4 evo sold millions(I dont have the exact amount, but I know they sold around 2 million+). Online play in the states and in the areas that would benifit, would help build the Vf community around the world. Contrary to what other posters may think, I read practically everything in these forums... I read about the lack of competition, to the argument that Kiwe had about Wolf's Wake up games, and how wolf doesnt have the options to take full advantage of the moves that he has for that particular situacion.

-Im just saying The community would benifit. People who dont like MK and think its a shitty fighter purchased the game because of online competition. We all know Vf is leaps and bounds beyond that fighter. Online play will make it more appealing, provide more comp, and allow the commmunity to expand.

 

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PhoenixDth said:

the reason there is no online for vf is that there is no market for online vf - in japan vf arcade scene still dominates.

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- I was talikng about the connectivity outside of Japan..because well, Vf as a arcade series doesn't bode well outside of Japan.Online connectivity outside of Japan wouldn't effect the revenue that Japan is making.

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considering that sega is still in massive debt and arcades provides its primary source of revenue - sega logically doubles their efforts to promote the arcade scene via tournaments, kumites and other events.

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-This has nothing to do with connecting people outside of Japan...ie the places that need online play because arcades are pretty much dead.

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Sega then releases a home port with a very nicely presented and executed quest mode, tons of training, and even videos of high level play. I think thats pretty much caring for fans.

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-This is nice, but Vf is a game made for versus play. These additions do not alleviate the problem at hand. Whats the use of an extencive training mode to practice with, when you dont have any comp. Whats the point of watching those high level matches when you cant use what you seen on an opponent. Because of the lack of competition, these things have become frivelous.


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VF thrives in japan and basically no where else. Its a huge investment risk to set up a network and invest in research for a game no one plays outside of japan anyways.

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-So everyone should stop playing Vf because no one playes it outside Japan. Sega should just stop making home ports cause no one playes the game outside of Japan. The game should become a Japan exclusive. This is a rediculous notion. There are people to play the game outside of Japan. There are those who are willing to invest the time...But there is one thing missing........Competition. Online play will atleast fix the situacion.

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DOA on the other hand, never even came out for arcade. So what does Tecmo do, try to create a virtual arcade experience in hopes of luring new fans, in a country devoid of xboxs. Will it have quest mode or even training like VF does. Probably not, but to each companies own, they support fans in their own way.

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-Since the arcade market is pratically dead for fighters, Im glad that there are Companies who are getting off their asses to find ways to connect their fans(Not Just in Japan). This is not what your getting, Both Vf and Doa were made for versus play. No amount of quest or training modes will help these fighters do what they were meant to do....Provide Versus play between multiple persons. Besides arcades, Online play is the most convient and cost effective way people can play against others.

-Btw.Both Doa1 and Doa2 had arcade releases.

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on a side note, do you do anything else other than troll DOA on VFDC?

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-No disrespect, but why should it matter to you. Myke or any of the Mods/Administrators haven't said anything to me, so why should you.

 

in replies to a lot of things in that you didnt seem to get and chopped up into pieces for your sake of reasoning

SEGA IS IN DEBT!!
do you know how much money it costs to set up a network and the research itll probably take to make quality net play. A negative budget to start doesnt help. Even FPS games which proprogated online play for years, is far from completely accurate. (example quake 3 rail gun) Untill latency can be fixed from point A to point B at 0 ping (for the sake of 1/60ths knee) which is impossible - VF Online will be more of a gimmick than an actual feature. If it was so easy to setup a network, countries outside of japan and korea would have vf net and korea was about 3 years late.

Again, since you like to chop up arguements - VF Online would be more of a gimmick than a feature. DOA plays a lot off of stuns and large frame counters - which makes netplay a bit more feasible due to its more leniency in frames (relative to VF). I would hate to miss a guarenteed elbow class counter because i have to compensate for 30 ping which is 3/10th of a second delay.

DOA 1 and DOA2 arcade WAS on the arcade, theres probably a reason why it isnt on there now.

I love this quote [ QUOTE ]
Since the arcade market is pratically dead for fighters, Im glad that there are Companies who are getting off their asses to find ways to connect their fans

[/ QUOTE ] I wonder who killed the arcade market in the first place. And you expect them to continue to support your lazy asses? Only in america the arcade market is dead, because lazy asses expect companies to support their "fans".

so all in all, i rather have a quality VF5 than money wasted net play that might make "fans" happy but worthless for competitive play.

oh ya trolls remind me of fishie, thats reason enough for me to say anything.

 

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PhoenixDth said:

SEGA IS IN DEBT!!
do you know how much money it costs to set up a network and the research itll probably take to make quality net play. A negative budget to start doesnt help.

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-If Sega was so deep in dept, there wouldn't be online play for any of their titles. Outrun2 in online enabled as well as many of Sega's sports titles. These titles run well online..even though they dont run perfect 100% of the time.

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Even FPS games which proprogated online play for years, is far from completely accurate. (example quake 3 rail gun) Untill latency can be fixed from point A to point B at 0 ping (for the sake of 1/60ths knee) which is impossible - VF Online will be more of a gimmick than an actual feature. If it was so easy to setup a network, countries outside of japan and korea would have vf net and korea was about 3 years late.

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-How in hell do you think they will ever set up decent network outside of Japan without trying. You talk about the perfect online coding, but you have to start from some where. The shit is not going to pop out of thin Air. Also, No one is expecting 100% perfect online play at this moment in time. Online play is the lesser of two evils:

a) have no Comp at all
b) Have Comp and deal with lil lag once in awhile.

-Even though I realy dont care for MKD, But MKD is very much playable online with little lag popping up here and there. If it was that hard as you say, This fighter wouldn't have as much of the success it has now.

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Again, since you like to chop up arguements - VF Online would be more of a gimmick than a feature. DOA plays a lot off of stuns and large frame counters - which makes netplay a bit more feasible due to its more leniency in frames (relative to VF). I would hate to miss a guarenteed elbow class counter because i have to compensate for 30 ping which is 3/10th of a second delay.

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-The long hold window will not ease the effects of a delay. First of all, holds are broken down in 3 parts:
Frames 1-4 = high counter hold
Frames 5-12 = Counter Hold
Frames 13-22= Loose hold

-Not only the damage change when Doing a hold early, The more precise the timing, the faster you recover or the higher your opponent is launched into the air. This effects juggles(launching holds), ground/wall setups(wall holds) , mixups and mindgames that can be played(Parries, Auto evades, and Position switching holds). Not to mention, for characters like Hitomi, Stance also factors into holding as well.

-As for stuns, there are two ways of escaping. 1) Using a hold, B) slow escape(similar to the way you escape staggers in Vf4). Any spike/lag, can cause you to hold/slow escape later than what you intended, and you will eat a throw (150%)or a nice attack/juggle(2-3x the damage of a throw). So dont give me this Bs. That the long window / amount of stuns will cushion the blow from Lag. And this is just one section of the game, We didn't even get into Combo throws, SS(which is far harder to do in Doa than in Vf), Combos, Juggles, wall setups,..etc.

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DOA 1 and DOA2 arcade WAS on the arcade, theres probably a reason why it isnt on there now.

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-yeah, Its more cost effective to make it console only.

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I wonder who killed the arcade market in the first place. And you expect them to continue to support your lazy asses? Only in america the arcade market is dead, because lazy asses expect companies to support their "fans".

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-Arcades are dead in America, because the Arcades no longer have an edge over Consoles. Arcades was the place to experience gameplay and technolgy that consoles could not produce...its no longer the case now...also, Console are providing much more for the consumer than what arcades can provide. Its not about being Lazy, its about having more bang for your buck.

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so all in all, i rather have a quality VF5 than money wasted net play that might make "fans" happy but worthless for competitive play.

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-So Vf5 cant be a good game with Online support?
Right now as we discuss, There are hundreds maybe even a thousand + people playing MkD online competitively with little to no lag. A company such as sega(who has more clout), wont be able to produce network code that rivals that of Midway? Come on now, you're giving sega less credit than they deserve.

 

you're still funny

1. "These titles run well online..even though they dont run perfect 100% of the time."

thank you for proving my point - for the 3rd time online vf will be more of a gimmick than competitive play.

2. Of course it wont pop out of thin air, but if you consider how convoluted the American internet backbone is, how many hops things take to get to point A to point B. The technology isnt there to support online VF. Sure you can build a house on sand, doesnt make sense to but you can.

MKD online play -MKD dial a combo plz
much easier to code and netlag compensate for.

you gotta remember think of everything that can possibly go on in MKD in a second then in VF for one second. Now lets push that data back and forth accurately. quadruple throw escapes in 10 frames anyone?

3. Have you considered the reporters thats been giving you "perfect netplay" reports. You think they know all the bs you're talking about. At most they're stuck with loose holds at 13-22 frames, and scratching their balls with glee because it was accurate within 0.3 seconds.

4. Arcade market - you make another funny. You dont goto arcade for technology shit, its for the social aspect. You know how to be social right? Hong Kong still plays KOF 98 even though theres shitloads better stuff out there, Brazils stuck in SNK fever still, Korea is still split between VF and TTT even though TTT is waaaay inferior than its PS2 counterpart. So dont give me this more bang for your buck concept, because why the hell are arcades still sucessful everywhere else.

5. Boy you do love mk5 dont you. Sure you can play your laggy tournaments, As far as im concerned, if you can accept any lag at all you're just not competitive enough.

 

"As far as im concerned, if you can accept any lag at all you're just not competitive enough."

YES exactly.... people don't seem to get it. Lag will fuck up anyones game and make anyone who REALLY plays VF competitively not go online ever. All this talk is just really talk. With current technology it's impossible to have a lag free game.

SEGA cares about their fans enough. The fact that they are in deep financial trouble, but still do tournaments all the time (in Japan, where there's DEMAND), should say something. Too bad they're releasing a bad port of VF2. =P But if it plays well, I don't think it's a huge deal, personally....

 

thank you for proving my point - for the 3rd time online vf will be more of a gimmick than competitive play.

-Yeah, a "Gimmick" that would be able to bridge the American Vf players. A "Gimmick" that would provide versus play that otherwise would not happen. A "Gimmick" that would get more people interested into Vf. Thats a pretty damn good Gimmick.

Of course it wont pop out of thin air, but if you consider how convoluted the American internet backbone is, how many hops things take to get to point A to point B. The technology isnt there to support online VF. Sure you can build a house on sand, doesnt make sense to but you can.

-Starting the process now will allow them to build better code later on. Are they supposed to start when Tk, Sc , Doa and everyother fighter are deep in the process of creating reliable net code. Everyother fighter has started the process or are planning to join the bandwagon.

MKD online play -MKD dial a combo plz
much easier to code and netlag compensate for.

you gotta remember think of everything that can possibly go on in MKD in a second then in VF for one second. Now lets push that data back and forth accurately. quadruple throw escapes in 10 frames anyone?

-Understandable. We are talking about sega here. Like I stated b4, they have the clout to be able to pull off a more than decent net code for vf.

Have you considered the reporters thats been giving you "perfect netplay" reports. You think they know all the bs you're talking about. At most they're stuck with loose holds at 13-22 frames, and scratching their balls with glee because it was accurate within 0.3 seconds.

-You think I will take their word for wether Online play will be totaly Lagless? Yeah the fuck right. I have been talking to those players who have been playing the game (through test play), and they are reporting that they haven't noticed any lag. The only way to be exactly sure, is to wait for the game to be released to the masses.

4. Arcade market - you make another funny. You dont goto arcade for technology shit, its for the social aspect. You know how to be social right? Hong Kong still plays KOF 98 even though theres shitloads better stuff out there, Brazils stuck in SNK fever still, Korea is still split between VF and TTT even though TTT is waaaay inferior than its PS2 counterpart. So dont give me this more bang for your buck concept, because why the hell are arcades still sucessful everywhere else.

-Yeah, thats fighters, where social interaction is Required(versus play). When it comes to shooters, racers, pin ball machines and all that other crap...There is no social aspect...and infact, you can do that @ home for much cheaper, with better graphics, and have online play included for matchs ups and versus play. The Arcades in America are filled with these type of machines where social interaction is not needed.

5. Boy you do love mk5 dont you. Sure you can play your laggy tournaments, As far as im concerned, if you can accept any lag at all you're just not competitive enough.

-a)I can give a shit about Mk, But when I see that its becoming more possible each and every day for fighters to play well online with little to no lag, I cant help to pay attention.

b) Well We have varying opinions. I rather be able to have comp than none at all. And you cant be serious about comp when you have no one to play against...it defeats the purpose of being competitive.

c) Online play only opens the door. There is more than enough incentive to still have meets/gatherings and Tournaments(something that is not realy feasable without comp).

-In Closing, Its either you have comp or you dont, and right now there is practically no comp for vf in the states. Its either online play or no comp....hmmm, I sure as hell rather have online play than spending $50 for a game I cant play to its full potential.

 

1. if you want to play a game that uses gimmicks to attract new players, thats just pretty sad. If you like gimmicky shit, vf shouldnt of attracted you in the first place.

2. Now you agree with me, once again you want to build a house on sand. Technology is the common denominator here. You can only be as good as what technology will let you to be. Im tired of repeating myself.

3. didnt you read my paragraph above?

4. I love it when you do agree with me, because now you're contradicting the superior "real arcade experience"

5. What kind of chuck e cheese arcade are you going to. And you and your cheap ass home talk. People still goto net cafes despite being able to play for free at home, i wonder is it because of the social experience. And you keep reading my shit wrong, im getting sick of it. I say arcade scenes exists everywhere else except US because of cheapasses like you, but you havent disproved why they still exist elsewhere. The japanese arent stupid. They can organize home meets - save playing VF for a $1 a game. I see chicks tear it up at shooters over there. People still do care about high score there. Why do they still play at arcades? Why do koreans still play TTT at arcades, it looks like shit vs ps2 version? Why do people in HK still play kof 98 in arcades? i mean shit they're technically 5 years behind. I guess they're all not geniuses like you. Stop dodging shit man.

6. "-In Closing, Its either you have comp or you dont, and right now there is practically no comp for vf in the states. Its either online play or no comp....hmmm, I sure as hell rather have online play than spending $50 for a game I cant play to its full potential. "

Thank you for dissing VFDC and what they have been trying to create the last couple years you dumbass troll. No scene my ass, maybe you just havent tried playing the game more with your "friends". And stop being such a cheap ass or does mommy have to give you your next allowance.

 

1. if you want to play a game that uses gimmicks to attract new players, thats just pretty sad. If you like gimmicky shit, vf shouldnt of attracted you in the first place.

- I dont know wether I should laugh at you or feel sorry for you. The whole point just went over your head. But since you cant seem to grasp it, let me repeat. The arcade scene in America is dead, There is little to no comp for the American scene. It would be much better to have some form of comp, than to have none at all.

2. Now you agree with me, once again you want to build a house on sand. Technology is the common denominator here. You can only be as good as what technology will let you to be. Im tired of repeating myself.

-Again it goes over your head. Its wether you want comp or you dont. The majority of American players are not going to have comp, because there are either no Vf machines, or there is no arcade period.

3. didnt you read my paragraph above?

-Yeah, I read everything you typed.

4. I love it when you do agree with me, because now you're contradicting the superior "real arcade experience"

-You full of it. Everything seems to just soar right over your damn head. Did I not say that it would be better to have Comp than no comp at all? How the hell does that contradict "the superior real arcade experience"? It doesn't.

5. What kind of chuck e cheese arcade are you going to. And you and your cheap ass home talk. People still goto net cafes despite being able to play for free at home, i wonder is it because of the social experience.

-Lets see.. Im not home, Im out in the middle of town and I would like to read my e-mail or browse some sites. Would it not be easier to pay a few bucks to chill in a net cafe than it would to go all the way home? don't even answer, you probably make up some lame ass excuse.

And you keep reading my shit wrong, im getting sick of it. I say arcade scenes exists everywhere else except US because of cheapasses like you, but you havent disproved why they still exist elsewhere.

-I told you the damn reason. People(americans) rather play their shit at home. what part of that did you not understand. Who the hell was trying to disprove why they still exist elsewhere. Your getting your arguments all twisted.

The japanese arent stupid. They can organize home meets - save playing VF for a $1 a game.

-Do you even think when you type. Why the hell would they opt to have home meets instead of going to the arcade when:

A) There is a larger selection of Players in the Arcade
B) You can gather far many more people in the Aracde than in someone's apartment
C)You can congregate and form clicks in the arcade.
D) Your not bringing strangers into your home


-So why the hell are they going to do that when they have arcades at their disposal? You are a funny person.


I see chicks tear it up at shooters over there. People still do care about high score there. Why do they still play at arcades?

-Read below-


Why do koreans still play TTT at arcades, it looks like shit vs ps2 version? Why do people in HK still play kof 98 in arcades? i mean shit they're technically 5 years behind. I guess they're all not geniuses like you. Stop dodging shit man.

-I dont know why the hell im even responding to you. Im not dodging shit, you too blind to see what I wrote. Did I not already post that there is a social aspect when playing with fighters(which is the most reason you state for going to the arcade)..shit, people are still playing MVC2 which is like 5 years old. Look, What works over there is not going to work over here. For one, the concentration of gamers at these places you talk about surpasses that of NYC, Socal and any other gaming centers in the states. Arcades in the states dont have this luxury...because like I said, Americans are going to their consoles instead of the Arcades.

Thank you for dissing VFDC and what they have been trying to create the last couple years you dumbass troll. No scene my ass, maybe you just havent tried playing the game more with your "friends". And stop being such a cheap ass or does mommy have to give you your next allowance.

-Your post gets dummer and dummer the more you post. There is an Arcade in NYC called CTF If I ever felt the need to go to an arcade to play fighters...But yet again my post goes right over your head. This is not about Me and where I can play(in which you seem to get so twisted). Its about Virtua fighter(and anyother fighter) and the availability of Comp. Yes VFDC and the people behind it have done shit loads of work to get this community together...in which I applaud them(give mad props and appreciate their services). But what your stupid ass keep failing to realise, The Vf scene in america is extremely small. There are hardly any arcades and the only way to play against eachother is through meets... You need more than meets for the community to expand. You need to have a form of gathering that would allow alot of people to play eachother on a constant bases. So you and your egotistical VFDC policing ass can shove it, cause Im done with you.

 

man stop twisting my shit around

id bet you make a great used cars salesmen