New Version of Evo?

GP,

I think maybe you're confusing the various test versions of VF4 with the actual release of version A to the public. Here's how I remember it:

back in the summer of 2001, I played the TEST version of VF4 in a couple US arcades, like SHGL. This version had no Vanessa, was missing Lau, Akira, and Shun's stages, some people had different throws etc (Akira had Lei Fei's f, b+P+G as an alternate side throw).

I went to Japan on July 27th last year, when I arrived in Tokyo, I went to Akihabara to the Sega arcade there, and on the 5th floor they had the VF-only area where people were playing the test version, but it was a newer version that had Vanessa, new stages etc. I remember because this was the first time I saw that stuff.

From here I went to Sendai the next day, and there was NO VF4, as it hadn't been released yet (I think August 1st was the official release date). Tekken 4 had come out already, but even the Sega arcade in Sendai didn't have a VF4 yet. About 3 days later, all the arcades got it, on the same day. This was version A, the first true release to all of Japan.

I played this version for about 3 1/2 weeks, then I went to Tokyo, and when I got there, my friend started talking about how he thought Akira's b, f, f+P+K+G sabaki could now be done with just b+P+K+G. Then we started noticing new moves etc (again, I remember exactly because I was in the same arcade where you and I met for the first time when I asked someone how to do Akira's d/f+P+K+G, only a year earlier). This was version B, and since I left Japan an August 25th, that means version A couldn't have been out for more than a month. I think since you live in Tokyo, you probably started seeing the test versions, with VFnet enabled, before the actual release, and assumed the game was out (these versions seemed to stay in arcades through the release, not pulled in and out like most games). Even though ver A had just been released a couple days before, my Tokyo pal already knew a lot of combos etc when we talked on the phone form Sendai, since he too had been playing the test versions.

On the version C release, for some reason Jan 31st is stuck in my head, but something else tells me it released the same day at the PS2 version in March? I think you're right actually, but even at Jan 31st, that means people played version B for Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan: 5 months /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Sorry for going off topic

Spotlite

 

not really aimed at anyone inparticular...

9/10 times, it seems as though rumors like this never turn out to be unreal... even if it's real, what the heck is up with that new character description!? sega am2 are undoubtabley running out of ideas, lol... throw in siba or taka somewhere, and it probably won't look weird.. i have to agree with godeater's first oppinion on alot of notes regarding VF and sega. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

in redards to ver.B, whoopie doo dah to those who had to deal with it for only a short period, .... it's true what ice said about it being only a big deal for those out of japan, because the UK did'nt even get ver.C at all in coin-op form, it was either ver.B or nothing till we got EVO.A... will we get the new version (if true)? most likely no, and i'm slowly disrespecting sega in general for their lazy / cash-in role in the games industry as it is... characters have been tweaked to the point that there is only ONE traditional knee!, changes are becomming fundamental, because they are getting significant, which means that learning even the next version is a must. and this is still VF No.4! /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

if the rumors are true, i think i'll sit this one out till the real sequal comes.... i literally can't keep up, i'm changing styles of play like i change my pair of socks, and Europe just does'nt update fast enough..

VF5 is gonna be sooooo dissapointing.. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

The problem you run into, I think, with different forms of martial arts is that the differences can be major or minor depending on what art the form orginated from. I'm thinking that Oriental Shaolin martial arts and Greek boxing being some of the oldest forms, with many innovators and cultures advancing on the theories to develop these forms and modernize them; still, the variations aren't that drastic, and VF has taken liberty with all representations, adding and mutating forms...all this to say, in VF, Krav Maga won't look much different from the "Aikido" we're shown.

Someone mentioned in this thread that "monkey" kung-fu would merely be a novelty, and novelty did not fit into VF. I'd just like to say that Lion and Shun both use "novelty" type forms, that are basically considered "quaint", nonapplicable in today's real world (true, some people do practice the forms, but I believe anyone who isn't, say, a top-notch physical specimen is NOT going to get away with Drunken Boxing in a real confrontation). In this game however, you have two "novelty" forms, why not Monkey Style? And it's not the same as Shun's, because Monkey is a pretty aggressive form...a cool-looking fighter using this style would be the cat's ass, man.

Finally, I hope the news of this new fighter in a ver D is actual, because there isn't a strong representation of Karate in the game, I mean Sonny Chiba rip-your-testicles-off-and-show-them-to-you Karate...if that's what they mean, I'm there. And since Goh and Burns are LAME-O, as characters, I'm dying for someone actually interesting to come along.

 

[ QUOTE ]
GodEater said:

I prefered the old model of releasing a game, making tweaks where absolutely necessary and plan for the future version based on what works. The constant stream of upgrades, balance and move introductions seems to water the product down for me. It might as well be a pretty complex but very beta OS at this point: "Virtuafighter Evolution 9.8 stable build open release"; The keyboard remains the same all you have to do is train yourself on the particulars. again.



[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I know what you mean, you would think that with all the versions they made VF4 would be a done deal by now but I guess not. I'll tell you what they should be working on : VF vs Shenmue Evolution Alpha, the ultimate fighting game. I know I know, ain't gonna happen but man would I buy that over any upgrade, I'd even be willing to pay extra !

 

I think that if the programmers want they can make Krav Maga, which imo is more straight forward and brutal than aikido, look totally different. It would be nice if they added monkey style kung fu or karate but not another hakkyoku ken fighter. And ''novelty'' fighters don't work in VF ? What's that all about ?

 

Did you guys see this thread?

I don't get EGM though........


<Edit> This isn't the first time that Sega AM2 has made a bunch of SFII type additions. Remember things like VF: Remix, VF: Kids, and then VF3 going to VF3 TB, it all adds up to this.

Someone here has got to get EGM, and if you do, please try to scan the image, scanning advertisements is legal right?

 

[ QUOTE ]
Someone mentioned in this thread that "monkey" kung-fu would merely be a novelty, and novelty did not fit into VF. I'd just like to say that Lion and Shun both use "novelty" type forms, that are basically considered "quaint", nonapplicable in today's real world (true, some people do practice the forms, but I believe anyone who isn't, say, a top-notch physical specimen is NOT going to get away with Drunken Boxing in a real confrontation). In this game however, you have two "novelty" forms, why not Monkey Style? And it's not the same as Shun's, because Monkey is a pretty aggressive form...a cool-looking fighter using this style would be the cat's ass, man.


[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with you about Lion. I won't claim to be an expert on martial arts (correct me if I'm wrong people) but Praying Mantis style is an actual style of kung fu. It's not exactly common and the not all the moves used in VF are authentic (but that's the same for all characters) but it is a known style. Shun's style is not common at all - the moves that are used in VF can't be taken from "Drunken Kung Fu Manual" so Shun in my opinion is the novelty character of VF. I don't really see Lion as much of a novelty character (as far as his style goes), I think something like Ninjitsu, basicaly a style which has been kept in it's true form only in Japan, would be more of a novelty than Praying Mantis.

That said I think a new VF character that used monkey style would probably fade out. In each update to VF two characters have been added, and I think that if two characters were added for the next VF, the one with Monkey style would be the less popular character. It's a bit like Taka - his novelty style made him the less popular character, and the effort of updating him for the next VF incarnation was abandoned.

A monkey style character might work but I just see he/she becoming the unused character in VF.

 

Spotlite:

You could be right... I was definitely a scrub then, and only played casually -- totally going off of memory. However, I do know that version C was released at the same time as the PS2 version -- which was the end of January (26th or 31st...something like that). The only weird thing I remember about this was the tournament that happened a couple of days later (the one that was made into a DVD) was Ver. B, even though Ver. C was out.

As for whether this is a good or a bad thing: Well, the Japanese arcades are definitely dying out a bit. The major spots are going strong, but the small guys aren't cashing in on Evo by a long shot. I'd say all in all it died out quicker than VerA-C, which is understandable. This could be Sega trying to do a favor to the arcades to protect their already outsanding name in the arcades.

As for whether it will cost more money? Since this is still totally rumor, nobody really knows, do they? If it's indeed called Evo Ver. D, I'd expect it'd be a free upgrade, as VFvA-C were, and VFEvoVB was. (EvoA was full price).

The only thing that makes my BS-o-meter go into the red, is that VF4vC was timed perfectly to come out w/ the PS2 version. As stated, this isn't Sega's style to come out w/ something, and upgrade so soon, a la Capcom. Even Evo coming out within a year was a big shock.

Ver B. coming out and then the PS2 version coming out several months later was a bit surprising to me as well. Even so, I'd like to see a change. If it came out in the fall, a PS2 upgrade wouldn't be out for months, and goosing the arcade scene here can't be a bad thing.

Sega has for so long put years between sequels, not made upgrades, and have spent loads of R&D on non-cash-cow games and have also been in the red while doing so. I'm not saying that taking Capcom's style of upgrades is going to be bring in a ton of cash, but I give them full points for trying something new (something Japanese companies are famous for avoiding).

However -- 10 new moves per character? Hah - Evo didn't even have 10 new moves per charater.

 

That's absolutely true about Shun; Brad Wong in DOA seems
much more authentic with Drunken Boxing...the only thing I'll say
about Lion (who's an excellent fighter in VF) is that he isn't using
anything near proper Preying Mantis (Southern or Northern style)...at least as
far as I know (not an expert). I don't know what the hell he's doing...look
at Preying Mantis in Chang Cheh's KID WITH THE GOLDEN ARM...admittedly,
the actor using Mantis is a big buff SOB, but his Mantis is a very linear style
using powerful looping strikes, palm and fist. Almost no kicks. A lot of pushing, thrusting...
very much BOXING, meaning hand techniques dominate. Other films from
Hong Kong illustrate good Mantis form (I don't know if I've ever seen the
alternate Mantis style, which really isn't related to Mantis, an even more brutal, relentless
style using a constant barrage of strikes to overwhelm, but called "Mantis" only technically,
and because the practice was against the law of the time...long story).

You're correct though, that Kage's ninja style, being pretty much
fictitious, is probably the real novelty style in the game. Folks who use Kage though
won't say that, because "novelty" suggest "hard to win with"...and even if Kage is
difficult to learn, winning a lot one you do is almost assured. Just a nightmare to
play anyone even marginally good with Kage.

 

Drunken boxing uses stance a LOT more than shun does...stance and move go hand in hand...what I mean by this is that a drunken boxer will use a lot of stances and movements to throw off the opponent and set up for a powerful or vital strike.
On the topic, I hope we don't get another revision and have to then buy another game...it sounds cool..but c'mon...save the changes for VF5...........

 

Screw that, all due respect... /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Keep 'dem changes coming!!! I swear, VF fans are the only fighting game fans that complain about the possible appearance of a new character!

(As an aside, the reason that is is because VF fans on average care far more about gameplay than flash and token character counts... at least that's what i'd like to believe, heh)

I wouldn't hate a new character. Maybe Evo will undergo the same types of "regular updates" that Namco's promised for the Soul series. This has its drawbacks, sure, but it definitely keeps the game fresh. I mean, there's always a good reason to play VF, but i think that the emergence of unique, balanced characters on a more regular basis only adds another good reason.

With respect to VF5, i have full confidence that AM2 will produce a winner. I personally have never felt as though the series stagnated - although i'm sure that there's loads of folks who would disagree - and i don't expect it to do so in the future either.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Aeon said:

I personally have never felt as though the series stagnated - although i'm sure that there's loads of folks who would disagree

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I think that the third game in the series was the worst, and is one of the low points of VF. But other than that Sega AM2 have been good with the main games of the series.

 

I always gravitate to the Drunken Boxers, only because, in a sense, this seems like such an effective style under the right circumstances. Meaning, in a tournament situation, I imagine a really superior martial artist could use this style to great effect. Actually, one of the "great" American boxing matches had a fighter kind of using that Drunken philosophy (of seeming clumsiness, lack of focus) to lure the aggressor into a false sense of power, as a stradagem (sic) to eventual victory: Ali-Frazier in Africa. Of course Ali wasn't using Drunken Boxing, but the thought behind it seems very similar.

I need to start a thread in General about this martial arts talk. I remember a cool thread of discussion on this (here on VFDC I believe, but I never saw it again, could have been ugh Gamefaqs' board) but it turned into a pissing contest between a couple of guys.

 

I guess there's one thing that's not been brought up in this thread. Hasn't every new VF ending with an integer always come out on new hardware?

Has Sega stated what hardware is coming out next? It seems that the Hikaru just came and went. Planet Harriers and a couple of others - are they putting out anything on this system?

I guess the idea would be to check out when they're going to release their next shit-hot hardware, and assume VF5 will come out sometime after that. If it's more than 18 months from now, I'd expect another quick upgrade.


EDIT:
Here's a nice Sega hardware page I forgot about.
http://www.system16.com/sega/index.html
Looks like Naomi 3 is the only thing Sega's got planned in the near future that's 100% Sega.

 

[ QUOTE ]
GaijinPunch said:

I guess there's one thing that's not been brought up in this thread. Hasn't every new VF ending with an integer always come out on new hardware?

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I said this a while back on another thread.

You can expect reasonably that they will make VF5 after the announcement of a Naomi3 type arcade board, and expect VF5 (if it goes to consoles) to come out for console release after the release of the next generation of consoles, most likely on the PS3 as far as VF games go.

Not to mention that with the rapid pace of technology, Sega would not want to release a potentially high selling game on 5 year old hardware.....would they?

 

Africa was Ali-Foreman

 

Hikaru was just naomi1 with some extra bells and whistles.

 

Apparantly expensive bells and whistles -- ROM only is much more expensive to produce, considering they don't sell as many as a home game.

Seems strange to put all that R&D in for just a handful of games. However, I must say, the HIkaru board is wicked. Planet Harriers was unreal -- the depth in that game would just blow you away.

 

Dude its just a Naomi1 with a dedicated transform and lighting chip.

 

Yes but c'mon, would you prefer another hakkyoku ken fighter or a character with a different martial art.