North America VF4 Evo Clips

Sal, Andy told me I can share it when he sent it to me. I would never post it up if he didn't wanted me to. Just like the FL clips I put up after being asked to do so. Just want to clearify that, no hard feelings. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

sharing and posting, very different /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif
unless he did told you to pst it /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif in which case im confused /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

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people have to understand that this was supposed to be a gathering of friends who play vf, to play people that * I * and all my other peeps feel 100% confortable with. also, like andy said this IS mainly gathering as usual, its 4 freaking days of vfing with only a couple of hours of some tourney THAT MIGHT NOT EVEN HAPPEN, you know we'll probably just say, "ah fuck it lets just play, fuck the tourney".

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Get your facts straight, Sal. Talk to whoever you need to, but get your facts straight.

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and do you think i would show up and meet you after all of this talk? do i want to go to a place that i have to ignore some dude to enjoy myself? nah man, i want to be 100% confortable.

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For christ's sake, Sal. Grow. Up. This is a game, not a knitting class. As I said before, get over your idiosyncracies and just come out and play. Shit, nine year-olds ignore people, not adults. You go and ask anyone who has ever played me what kind of a person I am - ask them. I think you'll find it remarkably different than the impression we perceive in this online bullshit.

 

look, I KNOW the facts, what adam tells you its way different from what he tells me, you have to understand adam is too much of a nice guy, he WILL NEVER tell you the real deal.

to adam: sorry adam i had to let that out, but this kid needs to understand where im coming from, just tell him man. dont worry about looking "bad" among them. like i said to you the other day, dont let me hold you back, if you really want them in the nyg, so be it. just that i wont be a part of it. so go ahead Llan, go to nyg, enjoy yourself. hopefully one day you'll understand the meaning of feeling confortable when online folks meet. by now you should know i do not like you, would you really be glad to see me in NYG? that's such an weird feeling, just aint my cup of tea.

fuck it.

sal.

bye

 

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Sudden_Death said:

look, I KNOW the facts, what adam tells you its way different from what he tells me, you have to understand adam is too much of a nice guy, he WILL NEVER tell you the real deal.

to adam: sorry adam i had to let that out, but this kid needs to understand where im coming from, just tell him man. dont worry about looking "bad" among them. like i said to you the other day, dont let me hold you back, if you really want them in the nyg, so be it. just that i wont be a part of it. so go ahead Llan, go to nyg, enjoy yourself. hopefully one day you'll understand the meaning of feeling confortable when online folks meet. by now you should know i do not like you, would you really be glad to see me in NYG? that's such an weird feeling, just aint my cup of tea.

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You know something, Sal? Some day, you will grow up. You will actually be mature enough put your aside differences and enjoy whatever it is you do. But for now, you're still a child. You seem to have issues with people online that you can't deal with in real life. And it keeps you from potentially having a good time. I don't converse online about VF to make friends. Few people, if any, got involved in this game to make friends. I could care less if you don't like me - that being said, if I ever met you, do you honestly think I would think it was weird or awkward? No, I'd have moved on since whatever was written on an online message board like every grown adult would do. You sound like a teenager who broke up with her boyfriend.

Do yourself a favour and grow up. Do NYC a favour and grow up. Do us all a favour and grow up.

 

can the mods separate the flames out of the initial post? This doesn't belong on the media board and I think the original intent was still a great idea.

GE

 

"that being said, if I ever met you, do you honestly think I would think it was weird or awkward? No."

oh cmon! man, thats so much bullshit. so whats being said online means absolutely nothing to you??? WTF!! so if I call you a fucking asshole online, we gonna be buddy buddy when we meet? wth!? get real.

"You will actually be mature enough put your aside differences and enjoy whatever it is you do. But for now, you're still a child. You seem to have issues with people online that you can't deal with in real life."

hehe when in doubt, or have nothing to say, rely on the good ol "you're a child" reply. classic. lets see whats next, my awsome grammar? hah.

here's some facts:

1) you were not supposed to know about this gathering. I specifically told adam who NOT to invite cause i do not think some people were all that nice. (talking shit about past nygs and basically dissing the whole nyc crew). I AM the elitist bastard of the group, yes Im picky with who I associate. suck it.

2) YOU called adam, asking if you could come. and what the hell was all that talk about not going to another NYG.? did you forget?

3) trust me when i say this, theres more than what's adam is telling you. the dude is just TOO DAMM NICE. it is pretty hard for him to say no when people want to come, but really trust me, he wishes you didnt called.

4) the button line is adam, my boy, is not backing me up, but I understand. he'd rather keep neutral.

sorry i had to bring all this up, brotha but it had to.

fuck vfdc, fuck all my haters, fuck this, fuck that. just fuck it.

goodbye.

oh, thanks mike for moving this. and not closing it like someone i know hehe.

 

I wish things can work out here.

Gathering in NA is rare, and that is the almost only chance

to see players in other area. Mostly coming to any gathering

involves traveling, and it would not be easy to drive 7 or 8

hours for most of people.

I've never been at any gathering except the one that me and

my buddies getting together on weekeend, but I hope that

If I ever decide to travel long distace for the game, I'd

wanna see as more ppl as possilble.

Really hope that this issue works out well again.

 

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<font color="orange"> 1) you were not supposed to know about this gathering. I specifically told adam who NOT to invite cause i do not think some people were all that nice. (talking shit about past nygs and basically dissing the whole nyc crew). I AM the elitist bastard of the group, yes Im picky with who I associate. suck it. </font>

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<font color="white">Oh I get it. This is your gig, not Adam's. I see. Then why didn't *you* send out that original email? - the "End of May - u ready, my VF niggas?" email sent out by Adam. You have email, why not send it out yourself? And think about how that would've looked when Ryan and company asks "where are the Florida guys, or the Toronto guys - could they not make it?" and you replying with "Well, we don't like them..." Toronto has strong players and Florida has arguably the strongest players in NA - it would be a shame if Ryan came all that way and not get a chance to play FLA because of some petty disliking from an online drama session.</font>

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<font color="orange"> 2) YOU called adam, asking if you could come. and what the hell was all that talk about not going to another NYG.? did you forget? </font>

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<font color="white"> Here, I'll tell you exactly how I came to be involved in this May event. Adam sent out the email. Neither FLA or Toronto was invited. Rochester sent an email back to Adam feeling that both FLA and Toronto should be included. Here's Adam's reply:</font>

Hmmm...Canadians and Floridians. Well, they were the same people that swore that they wouldn't be interested in coming to NY for any VF event after the whole NY (Andy)- Florida flame thing. If they express
interest, then they would be most welcome...

<font color="white">So, following that, I expressed interest. I clearly had the impression that this was not an NYG as Adam had already explicitly said that:</font>

"There will be a Team Battle Tourney and a single man tournament. There will be 4 evo setups for casual deathmatch-style play and 2 setups for the tourneys."

<font color="white">This, to me, says that the weekend events will have quite a bit of tournament play. Some gathering play, that's to be expected, but this was also planned from the get-go to be a tournament. Now, Sal, you've already dug up my post from before where I said I would not attend another NYG. You'll notice in that very same post I say that tournaments are what I will make efforts to attend, not gatherings. So, in light of the fact that this was to be a NYC hosted tournament, I expressed interest. I'm not going against anything I said earlier - I'm sticking with that - I'm interested in attending tournaments.

From the email sent out, how was I not to assume that this was not just another NYG? Adam says so in his email:</font>

"NYG4 (september) will be open for ALL level VF players, but for this one, just "good" players."

<font color="white">So, NYG4 is in the fall. This May event is different. Now look, if I'm wrong, then my bad. But can you blame me for assuming that this was a tournament and not a gathering? Seems pretty clear to me.</font>

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<font color="orange"> oh cmon! man, thats so much bullshit. so whats being said online means absolutely nothing to you??? WTF!! so if I call you a fucking asshole online, we gonna be buddy buddy when we meet? wth!? get real. </font>

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<font color="white">No Sal, I probably would not be all "buddy buddy". But I certainly would not feel sufficiently awkward to keep me from having a good time. And that's the difference here. It's not about getting together to make friends. It's about getting together and compete in a game we all enjoy.

Look, Sal, if we can't move on from this and just drop it and play VF, then the whole point of having a NA VF community goes to shit. I'm ready to move on. I'm ready to come to NYC and compete in an Evo tournament. I certainly hope you can make the effort to come and play as well, as it's going to be cool to meet and play with Ryan and the other UK players planning on making it down. Sure, we don't have to be buddy buddy but at the very least we can be civil and enjoy the game, right? I'll be the first to tell you that I'm far from being an asshole. I have my opinions (don't we all) and I'm hasty in my replies at times. But we all have things to work on - those are mine. The rest of the NYC crew respects me as an individual who has a good time at gatherings and tournaments. There's absolutely no reason why you can't either - regardless of what gets written here on VFDC. We all want to have a good time competing on VF4 - don't let a stupid post on VFDC blow it all to shit. If you want to, that's your perogative, but I'm extending the olive branch here. I'll take the time right now to apologize if I've offended NYC in any way. It was never my intention - I'm more for the promotion of making a better established VF scene in North America than I am for making enemies online because of differing opinions.</font>

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Okay, all this other shit aside...

yeah andy, i was just joking around, it's not like I said "andy sucks" or something. When we saw that old clip of your Lau vs. Rodney's Akira, we were all laughing out loud at 2K+G, 2K+G... and part of the reason it was funny was because he kept getting hit.

I think I'm on pretty friendly terms with you, and everyone in NYC, and I know you're a good player, so I'm suprised you reacted so harshly.

to be honest, I couldn't care less who dominates who, or who has "mental ownage" over who, I care about having a good time and interesting exchanges with other people through VF, and real life.

But, like Sal said, no big deal.

Bryan

 

Whoopsies, I think I killed Jerky's original post while trying to get rid of double-postings. AIEEEEE.

Anyways, I hate to say this, but this thread really shows our international visitors exactly what the issues are with the North American VF scene. I've already talked before about how different Japanese VF culture is, so I don't feel a need to reiterate it.

Granted though, I'll still try and help GE and Llany-chan by seeing if any JP players are interested in MOAT when I'm around Tokyo again. I hope the whole SARS thing starts to die down, as it might potentially scare some people off. (I just love being in Toronto, even moreso when VF is involved ^^)

 

People might hate me for saying this but I felt I need to since Zero-chan made that point. This is what I would say if someone asked me to compare the Japanese VF scene and the NA VF scene: Japanese play with modesty, and NA players play with 'pride' (This is more like stereotyping, so it doesn't meen all Japanese players are modest and all US players are 'proud', it's just kinda what I regard as the general picture).

Now I perceive this as part of the culture, since I fall into the category of the 'International Visitors' that Zero-chan mentioned, so please correct me if my perception was wrong. And please don't think I'm being racist or something.

From what I see, modesty is not a very 'essential' aspect of sportsmanship here. It's kinda more of "Respect and be proud" than "Respect and be modest towards the opponent" here. For example, people feel ok about 'bragging' over a certain accomplishment, and while still aknowledging the opponent, there is an undeniable feeling of superiority. This might not be bad here, but it might give a different view for visitors. The thing is, though, you probably shouldn't care what other nations think of you, but think of it in terms of what the scene can be like if modesty was integrated into sportsmanship. It's sad that we see people only caring to be recognized and 'respected' in the game. I think the more a player gets close to the top, the more modesty he/she should attain.

Having said that, I actually see a good deal of the VFDC community to be modest. I don't recall sensing any bragging from our Austrailian members for example, so maybe the culture there is different. Most of the NA posters here also seem to be modest, and the few people I got to meet in gatherings are definetely the sweetest. But we still get people being 'proud' and like I said, I only see it as part of the culture. Again, correct me if I am wrong.

This reminds me of something kinda unrelated. Last semester I had to attend a seminar on Ethics for one of my classes. The seminar was given by a company manager, where he would give the students a real life situation to try and solve with ethics in mind. Without going into details, their company was dealing with a Japanese company as their mother company I think. For a portion of the time the manager tried to explain how cultural differences can play a role in how people deal with each other in business. I was surprised to hear from him that the Japanese are mostly aggressive, and their strategies involve around attacking, conquering, and annihlating in the business world. This also came to a shock to me when I visited Japan and saw how nice and polite people were there. Don't get me wrong, people here are sweet enough, but I was very impressed with the way the Japanese treat people. They kinda push the politeness level more than necessary, but it still feels nice dealing with that. It seems they are different in the buisness world though, and probably when dealing with foreign partners/competitors. If anyone has some stories or some knowledge to share about this I would be glad to listen /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

You will probably say "Who is this guy anyways and what right does he have to criticize?" and you are right. I just thought I would give an 'alien' point of view or something /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

 

One thing I would like to add that may contribute to this difference is that the gap between "weak" and "strong" is much narrower outside of Japan than in Japan.

If you are a player in the U.S., being "the best" is within sight and very achievable. This gets the blood going and encourages people to constantly compare/monitor their own performance against others.

In Japan, on the other hand, being in the elite tier is so far away that the majority of Japanese VFers just play for fun. They play competitively, yes, but not necessarily with the aim of reaching that elite tier as their primary goal and this fosters a more modest atmosphere.

Quite frankly, if you take every arrogant VF player in the U.S. and put them in Tokyo for a few weeks what you're going to get back are meek, humbled, and yet more experienced players who'll let their ability do the talking, not their keyboards.

 

Dude, kage's a rolls royce, you don't drive him recklessly /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seen clips of imf's akira lately? He has a good match against cappo's lei where he lands e-shrm combos and yohos. He's still kinda defensive but it's no different from what you see a lot of japanese akiras do.

Anyway, I'm not sure what point you're making omaha -
"everyone play better so I can be more entertained when you release movies.". ..?

It's cool people are releasing clips, and if you say something to make them feel like they're scrubs and that their clips suck, they won't get any better but they'll probably stop releasing clips (which means they can't get feedback and have lost a chance to improve). One PM to an intermediate player telling him where he can improve in specific areas is ten times more useful than a general critique of all north american clips.

Though you're right, Andy makes sure NY clips are a waste of time /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Jeff took the thoughts from my mind...

just wanted to add, since we all know that in the end we can never be as good as people in Japan and Korea due to the nature of our scene, and that we're all just average players in the big picture:

maybe we can just enjoy playing VF with each other and stop giving a shit about who's the "best", because being one of the best VF players in the US is like saying you're the best tennis player at your local YMCA.

Spotlite

 

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spotlite said:

Jeff took the thoughts from my mind...

just wanted to add, since we all know that in the end we can never be as good as people in Japan and Korea due to the nature of our scene, and that we're all just average players in the big picture:


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Dude that statement alone is wrong on some many levels towards the VFers who know that they can compete with Japanese and Korean players and win even though the odds is against us. /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

I think what he meant was. In less we all move or at least visit for a few weeks to Korea or Japan and play over there, we will never be as good. VF players in US are spread out so far apart, that it's just impossible to be at their level right now. They have way more players with more experience against different opponents and their many playing styles.

 

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spotlite said:

just wanted to add, since we all know that in the end we can never be as good as people in Japan and Korea due to the nature of our scene, and that we're all just average players in the big picture:


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I'm taking a course in CS theory so I have to disagree with you, at least from a logical standpoint.

What I'm saying that is that it would be rather difficult to prove the claim that no NA player can become as good as Japanese or Korean player without leaving the NA scene.

Some definitions before we begin:

NA Player: A player who has only played in North America and has not left the North American scene.

Asian Player: A player who has played in either the Japanese or Korean scene (simply because they seem to be considered the best at the game).

Heuristic: A function that takes a player and spits out a value determining how good a player is.

First, developing a good heuristic to measure skill at VF is very difficult and subjective. How do you measure how good someone is? Is it tournament wins? Is it gathering play? Is it streaks in the arcade? You must be careful not to define the heuristic that that naturally excludes NA players from being good. For instance, if the heuristic was Japanese arcade streaks or Korean tournament wins, then by definition a NA player couldn't be part of only the NA scene and be "good".

Then you would need to measure the Asian players one believes the NA players will never be as good as. Which Asian players you decide to set the standard heuristic score on is very subjective. You would then have to prove that it is impossible for a NA player to score higher than the Asian standard without first leaving the NA scene.

One way to prove this would be to define the upperbounds for how good the the NA scene and the Asian scene can become and prove the Asian upper bound is greater than the NA upper bound. Now, it would be very difficult to put an upper bound on how good a group can become playing VF. Can you say "This is as good as anyone in Japan can get at VF"? Could you say "This is as good as anyone in America can get at VF?" There isn't very fesable way to prove the upper bounds of skill a group can get at VF. If there was, it would be extremley difficult to prove one set of players could reach this level while the others could not.

To prove an even easier problem, that currently does not exist a NA player as good as the Asian players, you would need to show that, for every NA player, their heuristic score is lower than the Asian standard set earlier. Or you could prove that it is impossible for a NA player that ties or surpasses the Asian score to exist. Again, this would be mighty difficult.

To prove the opposite, that a NA player can become as good as the Asians, would be easier to prove. All I would have to do is show that there exists one NA player who scores as well as the Asians do on our heuristic.

Now, I'm not claiming I know of a NA player who could score as high as an Asian player, I'm just saying it would be mighty difficult to prove one doesn't exist, and would be even harder to prove one can't exist.

 

Creed'o'logic again....are you don suckking creed? lemme give you a few more seconds to suck some more....

okay now that your head is up to get some air,

You defend one person, then lay the trash talk on mine. Way to set a good example.

"Stop saying his clips sucks cause of machi play"

"you're right since andy only showed footage of him winning it must mean the NY clips I make are a waste of time" (and did I even bother to post it?)

NICE!

To Spotlite,

Dude I know you are cool in person, you'd be the first person i'd call up in Cali. Again online I can't tell what you meant by "mad skills" it sounded sarcastic and I figured you a better player than that. A scrub would think to himself, look at him he's using the same move over and over.

A good player would know its conditioning and be surprised at the risk/ratio the move hit.

Had that been a japanese lau player playing another good japanese player with 5x d+k+g...or akira hitting somsone with 5x yoho....and 6th time a grab the comments would really have WOW did you see how he guessed correctly?

In General...

Most of you have not been around long enough to know what is and what isn't achievable by japanese vf standards.

This includes the sumeragi's, the creeds, peter, the shangs, the hyuns, the llan's, the Emils etc. etc. Most of you quit after the 3-4th year.

Anyone who played NYC players at the end of VF3tb's life span knows how competative we were up until a month before vf4's release.

It took us 5 Years but by the end we were competative by Japanese Standards, NOT NAVF standards, we were far above NAVF standards.

I cared about beating Shota and Hiro and Ice-9, people who would have been considered avg to above avg by japanese standards.

I don't see anything wrong with us achieving or striving for that goal.

Spotlite once said the Americans lack the paitence to practice and really get good down to the tiny details, I forgot the japanese word for practice that he used to describe this idea.

The NYC'ers frankly didn't care about the rest of NAVF since everyone basically up and stopped playing.

I had a conversation with LLan recently and I told him the true test is if 3 years from now the Goldens and Zero-chan and Creed and whoever else is very active in the VF4 scene is still posting anf playing.

If history repeats itself most of you will simply be bored or get tired with it.

To sum it up, striving for japanese standards is what every "Serious" VF should do while embracing Llan's philosophy of improving your local scene. Whether a WIN WIN WIN philospohy, play for fun, play to show-off whatever, underneath all that it should be play with dedication not fooling around which is the attitude I see by too many NAVF'ers. I would not hesitate to play with a weaker player that is serious about the game.

 

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MadNYC said:
I had a conversation with LLan recently and I told him the true test is if 3 years from now the Goldens and Zero-chan and Creed and whoever else is very active in the VF4 scene is still posting anf playing.

If history repeats itself most of you will simply be bored or get tired with it.


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Just wondering why Nammy and I were chosen to be part of this test... Although we've only recently started posting, we've been playing VF since VF1... We didn't get bored playing practically no one but each other for hours on end. VF3 was still the video game we played the most until VF4 came out and we went out and got it and a PS2...

To think we'd stop now, after discovering VFDC and finally having the ability to make it out to tournaments and get togethers, doesn't make any sense to me...

-Alex