North UK VF thread

Re: VF

Hmm yeah I know what you mean...

High level Akira players:

Ohsu Akira
Homestay Akira
Mukki Akira
Minami Akira
Western Lariat
Ryan Hart
Konjou Akira
Dongpal Akira
(Shinz)
(DeLune)

High level Kage players:

Kyasao
Yoro
Myke
Raider
DeLune

Well theres loads more I know of who play these two chars well I just can't recall names. As for Goh:

Arashi

is the only "good" Goh player i know of but then again I haven't been following the Japan/USA scene for a while so I don't know if there are some good players around now.

I find Goh certainly easier to use in a fight than Akira but thats due to hours and hours of practising moves required with Akira wheras Goh doesn't require as much practise at all, if any. Its easy to pick Goh after not using him for a month and do ok but if you haven't used Akira for a month and try and use him its difficult.

If he can't decide between the three I'd recomend keeping with all of them for now. I go through phases of being bored by Goh as you can use the same tricks over and over to win wheras with Kage and Akira thats not really the case (also due to the fact they have decent sized move lists).

Maybe he should just spend one week with each char solely using them and decide which he prefers out of the lot.

As for the low punch stuff, I know what you mean but I've not messed round with things. I'll check it out today.

 

Re: VF

the thing with the 'use each character for a week' thing is, at the moment he likes Kage best, coz alot of he moves are half circular, safe, sabaki properties AND evading properties. in other words, you can continuously spam out he moves and they are most likely to hit, and if they don't, it's no big deal.

 

Re: VF

Yeah kinda similar to Pai in a way. Hmm I dunno I think players should stick with the chars they like playing as the best. I think thats all I could say to him.

 

Kage

For me Kage has always had a 'confusing' element to his gameplay (i.e. juminji roll's, moves that travel through the opponent when there on the floor, tft pushback combo's). He also has loads of flowchart mixups (example, his f+p teef!)).

I've got a lot of work on, but I'll post more later today or tomoz).

 

Re: VF

[ QUOTE ]
EliteVersion2 said:

the thing with the 'use each character for a week' thing is, at the moment he likes Kage best, coz alot of he moves are half circular, safe, sabaki properties AND evading properties. in other words, you can continuously spam out he moves and they are most likely to hit, and if they don't, it's no big deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew chanting "play kage" over and over while he was sleeping would have an effect eventually.


Kage's inputs are a piece of pish to be honest. The real trick to him is knowing and utilising the defensive and evasive properties he has in his movelist.

Wolf I find very hard command wise, Lau too.

 

Re: VF

Faded said:
Kage's inputs are a piece of pish to be honest.


I have to disagree, his TFT combo's can very tricky under pressure (example:, his knee etc), but another 'strength' is his great throw 'game' (e.g. 4direction's, neutral and a catch, not to mention his frankensteiner). Still gutted about his 270 TFT in FT Though! /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

Re: VF

While we're all guilty of tft, sidekick from time to time. I still think it's a reasonably easy set of executions to do. tft knee in vf3 is sucha nightmare in comparison.

The only evo tft combo I find "hard" to do consistently is
TFT (dash) +, , , +.

I hope I remembered that right, it's been a while.

On the other hand I cannot, CANNOT do perfect giant swing. I have tried and tried to the extent my wrists were so sore people thought I had I had been masturbating furiously all day.

270 tft I can live with, shorter ranged is a crime against all that is good and holy.

Edit - Not that I'm too fussed anyways as I'll probably switch to Jeff.

 

Re: VF

On the topic of Kage, check out here Ade

http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=110320&Main=110309#Post110320

Some nice combos to mess round with.

 

Kage's DF+P

+ has shortened range, I thought it was + (The way it's going I'm not surprised if both are toned down)

Yeah, Knee in VF3 three was hard to time.

Don't quit Kage for Jeff, sacrilege!

 

Re: Kage's DF+P

[ QUOTE ]
SlimAdey said:

+ has shortened range, I thought it was + (The way it's going I'm not surprised if both are toned down)



[/ QUOTE ]

you make it sound like Kage doesn't need toning down! he and Akira need alot of moves reducing. i find that most of Kage's moves have too much power, as he has a good throw game, and most of his moves are safe with evading properties, making them really good. btw, with Kage, what is + and what is +?

 

Re: Kage's DF+P

Hmmm I disagree on toning down moves of both Akira and Kage. I don't understand why anyone says evo Akira is too powerful. In the early versions of VF 4 he was sick. I mean > evade > DBC could do about 100 pts. Thats over the top.

SPoD has been toned down in evo as were most of his moves. He lost guaranteed stuff from + and another elbow . Chars like Lau and Jacky are just as strong as Akira, especially in the combo stakes. Jacky was toned down a bit from what I recall but hes still nasty. Same with Sarah. I don't think anything needs to toned down of Kage either.

Akiras main disadvantage is that so many f his moves are linear. He has , SPoD, LBF etc a few half circulars and thats pretty much it. Coming from a Jacky and Jeff player I can't believe you think Akira should be toned down. Shame on you! ( /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif I am only joking btw).

Kages is an elbow and is his "downwards slap" that leaves him in the crouching position and floats on hit.

 

Re: Kage's DF+P

ok, just because Akira was toned down from 4 to evo, it doesn't mean that it was enough. the main thing i find wrong with Akira, is that stupid 'safe' super dashing elbow, its ridiculous hoe much dame he can deal from that, plus it is really fast, has good range and is safe? that isn't too good? hmmmmmm?????
also, that stupid from crouch shoulder ram that beats low punch, even if a previous low punch of his was blocked.....
as for Kage, to many of his moves get him 40-50 damge that have evading sabaki(ing?) properties, are safe and half circular or leave him crouched or some other gaynesses.
as for jacky and jeff, well we will start with jacky.
although he is fast and has a lot of combos, they are not really that difficult to deal with because most of them are two hits, and the second one is usually high, so you can just block the first hit and then crouch to avoid the second hit, then hit him during recovery. he lacks any serious power, and all of hit float combos are bloody stance specific (damn i hate that). also, his throw game is total toss. he is only hard to beat if you panic and lose your head when you are fighting him.

Jeff! ok, he is powerful, but he has three moves that are safe, the rest are throw or hit counteralbe, his "canned combos" are all shit coz you can get hits on him in between them. his throw game is only average, as he only has three directions you need to bother with ( is that stupid press slam that can be tech rolled out of, and it isn't even that powerful) although he has a 70 and a 65 damage throw, they are still easy to escape as you really only need to put in and to escape much damage. i mean, he has three throws that all end in and three that end in, so his throw game is only average. he is by far one of the worst characters on the game, but hlopefully they will sort that out.....

 

Re: Kage's DF+P

Akira and Kage are still extremely powerful in evo.b. Akira doesn't have any full circular attacks? I don't think he needs any. It's just too safe to play those two characters. not throw guaranteed? WTF is that? Just compare that to Lei's .

With that said, i think Jacky, Lau and Pai also need to be toned down.

 

Akira

Wow wow wow....

check here first:

http://virtuafighter.com/commands/index.php?chara=akira&ver=evob


SDE is certainly NOT SAFE!!! Its one of his primary big gamble moves. Its -6 on block and its still possible to get thrown then. You need to master E-TEG to defend a blocked SDE. Its now throw counterable in FT anyway.

Plus its only main use is counter hit. The staple SDE (MC) > DJK is only about 67 points. If you can do sgpm-DE then you're looking at 70 odd pts. Even so you've gotta get a counter hit. The shrm LP stuff is just weird but all chars have stuff like that.

In NO WAY does jacky lack serious power!!! Check out any vid of Shinz, Ryan, Freeloader etc using him and see how the high level players use him. Jacky and Lau are ALL about power, speed, damage in combos and stance recognition (btw Akira has lots of stance dependent combos too its something you really should learn).

If you're talking about throws Akiras best are simply cancelled out by or .


True SDE is fast (14 frames) only as fast as DE though and thats a primary thing to use vs LWs and light MWs (DE is safer on block too).

I don't understand why you're saying he should be toned down cos of SDE and because shrm can go thru LPs. He was toned down A LOT from VF4. In fact hes been toned down since a lot since the early Vfs (ask Ade).

As for Jeff having only 3 safe moves? Check here...

http://virtuafighter.com/commands/index.php?chara=jeffry&ver=evob

He has plenty more safe moves than 3. Plus the damage involved in his combos and throws can be sick...

> does about 92 on counter....wtf?

Even Akira can't reach the 90 mark with a flop combo.

As for Jacky, just look at the mix ups he has:

http://virtuafighter.com/commands/index.php?chara=jacky&ver=evob

His comand list is almost twice the size of Akiras (ok slight exageration). Playing against a strong Jacky can be a nightmare as he has so many differing options when it comes to hit levels.


Kimble:

Yeah i wasn't trying to imply I think Akira needs any circulars, just that an awful lot of his moves can be dodged with relative ease. One thing I am bad at is dodging the right way against half circulars and its so frustrating to play against chars who can dodge 90% of your attacks with the standard motion /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

 

Re: Akira

i was told that -6 is not throw counterable, not throw counterable = safe.........
ONLY 67, cos thats not alot now, is it?????

how can you think that jacky has powerful combos (like Akiras yoho, knee, shoulder ram, Wolfs shoulder ram, Jeffs kenka hook, knee, kenka uppercut, Lau's jackknife, most of Brads combos. even Sarah and Pai have more powerful combos than jacky), the only REALLY powerful float starter that Jacky has, is +, and the combos from this are all stance and weight specific. (i just use +, it works in both stances). the rest of his floats are around 50 damage unless a counter hit is landed...
i don't think Akira should be toned down loads, just a few of his moves need looking at.

3 was an exaggeration, i was merely pointing out that, although he is very powerful, it is extremely hard to land a hit, because he is slow, and most of the time throw counterable, so he can't really poke the enemy to keep the advantage. from the beggining of the fight he is on the defence, because the first time a move is blocked, he is totally screwed.

like i said before about jacky's mix ups, MOST of the second hits are high or low, so a low guard will beat both.

 

Re: Akira

Yeah although it takes 8 frames to throw, its still possible to gte thrown at -6 and so evade > whateverTE > G is really the best way out of the situation ( I think). The whole thing is being able to react to the hit. To maximise damage you need to be doing on counter which is hard at first. If you score a normal hit you can sometimes continue with ABC but most prefer . On block is another matter though as theres no easy way out.

67 from a counter hit isn't "that" much in my eyes seeing as the Jeff combo I just put does 92 , also for a counter. Jacky has loads of 60/70 damage stuf from counter. His primary combo starters in my eyes are:

+
++ >
+


I'll admit Sarah has load of 70/80s combos that are really nasty. Pai doesn't have that many though, Jacky has more higher damage stuff than her.


If I can find any vids of Dais Jeff I will do and post a link. He makes Jeff look as fast as Pai.

 

Re: Akira

i use + as a poke, and usually use a after as it is very safe. +++ + is very slow, it is so obvious, as ad all the moves from the +++ are linear, is is very easy to just evade. andy does this to me all the time.
+ is quite good, but is throw counterable.
im not too sure about ++, they are all stance/weight specific, so as amatuerish as it sounds, i use heavy pounce. the recovery is good, and it leaves me in a nice position to continue the offence without the opponent tech rolling.

 

Re: Akira

[ QUOTE ]
LM_Akira said:
67 from a counter hit isn't "that" much in my eyes seeing as the Jeff combo I just put does 92 , also for a counter. Jacky has loads of 60/70 damage stuf from counter. His primary combo starters in my eyes are:

[/ QUOTE ]

To be fair that's comparing the 67 from a counter to moves which are a lot slower.

Now I admit I'm fairly biased since I've thought sde has been pretty broken in every vf4 version so far but I decided to see what the best damage I could get from a 14 frame move counterhit from the other character i knew. Obviously a lot of these moves were designed with vastly different purposes in mind but I still think it's kind of interesting.

Kage - 48, easily punished if you block the first hit, high. +1 on block if opponent is silly enough not to duck after blocking first two hits. It's also only 12 frames.

Brad + combos -64/63 c/o similar damage and a bit more damage potential than akiras on normal hit. But high and -6 (on a high, wtf)

Goh - combo 48, high. Low but goh sucks striking wise. its to be expected.

Pai - 68 high damage, move is only 13 frames, and you guessed it again high. Throw counterable.

Jacky stomp was best i could think of . 67 damage, high -6.

Lau - 65/61. Again 13 frames, again high. -6 on block.

Jeff - only 40 damage, throwcounterable on block but at least you have a delayable follow up. Special mid

Wolf screw hook, reverse sledge hammer. 50 Throw counterable, delayably followup thats pretty easy to duck and ream. Special mid.

I probably missed a few obvious ones but hey.
Also a lot of those are lame on normal hit but I'm too lazy to do anymore typing than this. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that most of the combo starting moves you can throw out with just +2 (after pk hits for example) can usually be ducked/or punished on block. -6 is no walk in the park sure but really it's not that different fromg getting a normal elbow blocked at -4 you're still going to have to take defensive measures. SDE is just too good for how fast it is imo.

Other than sde I think akira is totally fine how he is now, and I think they're going a little overboard with some of the other changes.

 

Re: Akira

Hmm yeah granted you make a good point but as I tried to note before its one of those risk-reward games and until you learn to guard buffer damn fast or react to the counter hit, its not that easy to use. Well, in comparison to other moves that is.

I, like many I presume, have seen many vids of Akiras getting low on health and clawing back with SDE (MC) > DJK but I for one don't see it as broken move in evo.

 

Re: Akira

i don't think it is broken, it is just miles better than all the other moves in its class. added together with all the other moves thst Akira has that are really good, it mkaes him very hard to defend against.
as they are making it throw counterable on FT,its all good.