Okay, I'm going to lay it out there...

NOt to sound superior, but I'm not going to argue a point w/ people that've never stepped foot in a Japanese arcade. I can take pictures of very small ones w/ multiple machines. Yeah, they didn't have to buy them, but to be honest, to eat, they need at least one. I know a few machines that committed to one, and couldn't afford a second, but had to to keep their customers coming back.

I'm not saying Sega should've given FT away, but I am saying that it's a half-assed upgrade at best. Bring on VF5 for fucks sake.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Llanfair said:

I see the problem. Here's the problem:

"People make other people happy to earn money"

This sentence makes no sense. Oh, and did I mention that nonchalant ( For your reference, because I know you're going to need it) useless comments are also part of the problem?

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it made perfect sense. Sega are a Business first they use games as entertainment for customers. Sega aren't the NO 1(arcade) in Japan for no reason.

Nybec doesn't speak perfect english because hes from Sweden no need to be a bitch Llan because you disagree with a statement.

 

Please. I wasn't being a bitch. Nybec jumped into my frustration with Shadowdean with a completely irrelevant comment. He and I have since further discussed the sequence of posts through PM. He's a big kid, and can defend himself, Jide.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

/versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just tired of the constant flames these days /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
No problem

 

I for one rather applaud Jide for seeing someone who he thinks is treated poorly and reacting to it then 'staying out' of it cause the other one "is a big boy". The world and hell even this site needs more of the first and less of the later.

Peace Out.

/KiwE

 

WTF, irrelavent? I more or less said the exact same thing as GP, but I get jumped on? I've said for a while that this is more or less a money grabbing move (which I also believe shang said) by sega.

 

[ QUOTE ]
GaijinPunch said:

I'm not saying Sega should've given FT away, but I am saying that it's a half-assed upgrade at best. Bring on VF5 for fucks sake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Gaijin you would have waited another 4+ years for VF5 ? Personally i wouldn't. But i doubt in the UK we will even have a chance to play FT so your quite fortunate your living in Japan. While we still have to play Evo /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Ok so it's not a big leap from vf4 to evo but at least Sega tried to adress problems that the fans compained instead of leaving us out to dry.

I mean how long has evo been out 2-3 ? years and people want VF5 already

 

Jeezus - It's like a frickin' kindergarden class in here.

Shadowdean:
1. Read my reply to Jide again. You'll notice that the irrevelance in is relation to Nybec's comment, not yours.

2. And yes, you are saying *similar* things to what GP originally stated. Keep in mind that it's more about *how* you say what you say, than *what* you actually said. GP expressed his disatisfaction of FT in that it costs so much for what he considers to be little improvement. You, on the other hand, are supporting the same argument, however your post is soaked with disdain. It becomes personal almost - your post gives off the impression that Sega owes you something, that you or the players *deserve* inexpensive upgrades to VF full of improvements both graphically and mechanically (gameplay). Well, that's where I get irritated. The assumption that Sega is *supposed* to be developing VF for the good of the players who enjoy it, is ridiculous. They develop VF to get themselves out of the red. They know a cash cow when they see one, and if FT is their next cash cow, then so be it. Why bitch and moan about how they're being 'cash grabbers'?! It does nothing but continously support your own portrayal as a whiner and complainer. You did this before when EVO was being announced.

It just doesn't seem that anything Sega does with VF is enough for you to be satisfied. No one is forcing you (or anyone for that matter) to buy, play, rent, import, etc Virtua Fighter 4 Final Tuned.

Remember that.

And for those that are buying, playing, renting, importing, etc., VF4 FT, assume that they've made the decision based on sound judgement and that they certainly don't need you to bitch in their ear that in your opinion their investment was shit.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

1) Sorry for the confusion
2) If you like to roll over and take it, thats fine and your perogative...I do not see why I should have to be happy and go nut hug sega simply because they are sega....they have been in the black now for a while and probally (hopefully) will continue to be so. I think that FT is rather short sited and yes, more or less just a money grabbing move...and obviously I am not the only person who thinks this...I am very sorry if this does not fit into your world view or however you are viewing the situation.

 

Of course I'm going to take it. Our operator in Toronto obviously feels that the cost of FT is worthwhile. Keep in mind that the cost of FT was not just some random number picked out of the air to 'make money'. Sales and Marketing at Sega obviously priced the game at a level where they thought the majority of operators would go for it. And it seems as though that price was well met, and has sold well.

But this has nothing to do with my world view. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Tell me, what exactly do you expect from AM2? What could they do that would make you retract your 'money grabbing' views?

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

In my view "<font color="red">Final Tuned</font>" is meant by AM2 to be the last version of <font color="red">VF4</font>. Which we should all hunker down with until they work on the totally different <font color="red">VF5</font>.
For the price, I'm guessing they have a business department, and it's not AM2...

 

I think they could make even more money by releasing this upgrade at a lower price since that would open up more markets for it. Thats what I think...its general common sense that if something is not as costly, more people can then buy it.

 

Absolutely. Cheaper FT kits would indeed make it more accessible. But, Shadowdean, did you know that if you order a VF4 FT Kit today, you will have to wait almost a month because there's waiting lists to get the kits? I've been recently trying to get an idea of cost around getting control panels with card readers for our local arcade with FT. The emails back from 2 different japanese distributors indicate that the control panels are not a problem of ordering, the game however is. They have no more and are waiting for Sega to make more.

I think that if FT had been disproportionately priced, there would be fewer arcades with it. But it seems as though Sega has priced FT at a level where they would get the maximum distribution (remember this is only a japanese release at this time) at the highest price possible.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

[ QUOTE ]
Jide said:

[ QUOTE ]
GaijinPunch said:

I'm not saying Sega should've given FT away, but I am saying that it's a half-assed upgrade at best. Bring on VF5 for fucks sake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Gaijin you would have waited another 4+ years for VF5 ? Personally i wouldn't. But i doubt in the UK we will even have a chance to play FT so your quite fortunate your living in Japan. While we still have to play Evo /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Ok so it's not a big leap from vf4 to evo but at least Sega tried to adress problems that the fans compained instead of leaving us out to dry.

I mean how long has evo been out 2-3 ? years and people want VF5 already

[/ QUOTE ]

that's evo ver.A in the arcades with a dirty surrounding, scrappy sticks and one machine which keeps eating coins. (that's right, still to this day the coin-op scene only has either VF4 ver.B or evo ver.A, one machine in your every day rare arcade centre YEY UK!!!)

as apposed to multiple arcade centres with packed floors of VF.Net installed systems of FT.

------------

sorry guys, i have no relevent issue either, just feel the pain!!

 

I would chalk it up to nessesity...from what i understand, any decent arcade in japan needs the latest/most up to date VF...they are doing it to simply stay competitive, not because price is not an issue.

 

So you're saying that without the latest VF, these arcades would gradually be out of business?

C'mon. VF4 may be the number one arcade revenue generator in Japan (see magic box for stats) but I highly doubt VF makes up for any more than 15-20% of their total revenue. I have no idea what the actual figure would be, but in the ever-changing arcade industry I think that basing any more revenue percentage on a single game is a very very high risk business model.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

What the machines generate is besides the point I am making - they draw the people to the arcades..once there, they play other games, not just vf - but VF for sure is one of, if not the largest drawing force.

 

To be perfectly honest - neither of us know enough about the japanese arcade business model and what revenue, both direct and indrect, VF generates, for us to really continue this debate...unless one of us can turn up some hard stats, we'll have to agree to disagree in a sense...

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

[ QUOTE ]
GaijinPunch said:

NOt to sound superior, but I'm not going to argue a point w/ people that've never stepped foot in a Japanese arcade. I can take pictures of very small ones w/ multiple machines. Yeah, they didn't have to buy them, but to be honest, to eat, they need at least one. I know a few machines that committed to one, and couldn't afford a second, but had to to keep their customers coming back.

I'm not saying Sega should've given FT away, but I am saying that it's a half-assed upgrade at best. Bring on VF5 for fucks sake.

[/ QUOTE ]

just for the record, i live in japan and have been living in tokyo and new york for the past few years. i am currently in azabu-juban and will be for the next 3 years. you shouldnt make assumptions when you have no idea who you are talking to.

please feel free to take a picture of a johnny tanaka arcade with 5 final tuned machines. i go to tons of different arcades and the most ive ever seen at any kind of independent location is 3. i think the boat house in ichigaya may have 3, but i havent been there in a while. and they get enough traffic so it's worth it.

again, it's all about how much traffic you get. if you can support it, then get 5 machines. if you can't then don't blame sega for your vf cabinet spending spree.

 

[ QUOTE ]

please feel free to take a picture of a johnny tanaka arcade with 5 final tuned machines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Game Inn Mitoya in Shibuya. It's got 5 FT machines (takes up about 40% of the basement floor. Print Club on the ground floor, then a rather unimpressive 3rd floor of mostly older games, and some other goofy crap. Maybe doesn't qualify as Mom and Pop to some, but is the 2nd smallest arcade in Shibuya that I can think of. There's one that's even smaller in Sangenjaya that's got 4.

They also got in the new Gundam game -- the line was long enough to where you couldn't play FT on a couple of machines... wasn't much of an issue though.

And as for FT being priced "at a sales level that seamed fit" it was pretty much priced at the same price range of all new games. Chaos Field was the last Naomi2 release and I believe it retailed just a bit under, and sold used for 160,000 yen 2 months later.