Online 3D Fighter

Weird nick guy.

Wtf are you talking about?

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BTW, KiwE, where have I even mentioned DOA at all?

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I replied to VIRTUAPAI, you know... the guy with the DOA site, a DOA char in his avatar, who's post is above you and mine and if you still have trouble comprohending that you can read the 'reply to' box?!! Maybe the hint that he already has replied to it with a quote of me saying so? Do you think I have a thing for you or something? Sorry, I don't swing that way.

This is what I read when I see your post:

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I think VF punishes scrubs to hard. See, I once bought SC2 (still like it more) and played against my scrubby friend in a month and since we were so equal (and have no idea of knowing we aren't and we suck) we still to this day think we're hot shit. I play Yun Sung and my friend plays Lizardman! /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyways, so I played the AI in VF which I hate cause it's to hard (I don't play vs just the comp) and got my ass handed to me (nerf the AI on easy!) and I went over to meet some good players (I don't think they play SC2 though) and !! WTH I LOST (this was a shock to me cause I thought they would, ofc, be worse then the AI at easy since I couldn't beat it)?!! No, this shouldn't be so, this must be some sort of imbalance! I think one of VF's problems is that launchers are always heavily coutnerable! I mean, if they weren't I could do yoho>yoho>yoho all the time against those more experienced players and have a chance of winning (remember, I kinda played alot for those 3 weeks, hell - I even learned how to almost techroll consistently)!

I can spam in my SC2 game at home with my friend (we both do) why can't I there? Hmmm, maybe the game then punishes scrubs / spammers harder then SC2 and actually has a logical fightingsystem / engine that when learned lets me see my errors ???
No - with my great deduction skills (I read Hercule Poirot) I make the conclusion that the game is harder to actually learn (I can't even see combos I can do against those who I launch in SC2 anywhere but that's ok cause my friend doesn't know how to get up fast yet /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif .

I think that another of VF's problems is that there are to few lenghty strings (what's up with that?). I think that lenghy strings that go between mid and high amongst 14 opponents and so is a great way of seeing if a game isn't trial and error. The more they have the less trial and error the game is. Yes I said Less!!!
Yup, I think all characters should have these lenghty strings and then make them juggle/aircombo on hit (remember my other complaint?) and be uncounterable - that would be swell cause then I wouldn't have my ass handed to me next time (and the game would be better!) Grrr! I think KiwE hates me /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

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GGXX#R and SvC online!

Whoah, I just came across this.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/thecastleofshikigami2/news_6086773.html

I'm pretty cluess about SvC, but GGXX? If they can get FRCs to work, I have absolutely no doubts that VF Online will work. Buuuut, my guess is that this will be another CVS2 online, you know with the jury rigged networking code. We'll see.

 

Re: Hey Srider:

No I have said it.

 

Re: Hey Srider:

Just for the record...if I can't spam moves in VF, then you better tell the guys I play with (who are all LEAGUES better than me) that they better stop eating Vane's

Coz I spam that sucker like there's no tomorrow, and it connects almost all of the time. Same holds true for her . Spam spam spam spam...SPAM

 

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If they even make a half-assed attempt at net-code, the game will STILL register your OWN inputs just the same as if you were playing offline. There's no reason why lag should make 'the knee' un-doable.

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Fluctuating lag will make stuff come out late which will kill combos. It would throw off your TFT -> knee with Kage, catch throws with any character, many of wolf's powerful counters, etc.

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Consider the beginner's basics, like techrolling. It takes a while to be able to techroll consistantly, when you want to.

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Really, so it's hard to hit when you touch the ground? I can see how the instant techroll to avoid damage, or techrolling out of a move that floors you quickly could be difficult, but come on. Why don't they make it so you just hold down the buttons, better?

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Combos aren't very readily accessible to new players either, because the game lacks alot of 'canned' combos. Everything has to be kinda figured out by trial and error...

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Ok, maybe if you're playing VF4 (non-evo) I'd give you this... but have you even looked at training? Tactics advance? It even tells you what combos can follow an attack. SC2 lets you smack the other person around, and gives you a move list. The difference is that SC2 has more lenient timing, so your combos don't have to be as spot on.

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One of VF's biggest strengths is also it's biggest turn-offs to new players: Combo starters are almost ALWAYS risky......

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I think SC2 does have easier combo starters. For *almost* every character. This adds in a form of balance, when each character has at least a decent (not great, and usually very punishable by experienced players) juggle/combo starter. So a new player can pick it up and proceed to do fairly well against the CPU.

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Basically, you just said that SC2 has easier, harder to punish combo starters, which is a form of balance (?). Why wouldn't I spam the easiest and safest 'good' combo starters or moves over and over again ? Why do you think Tekken 4 is so unbalanced? Because of shit like this.

In VF, a move's strength and usefulness is typically balanced to how risky it is. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. If Jacky's jab does more damage then his slower axe kick, no one would use the axe kick.

Oh, and in VF many characters have a simple juggle/stagger, and simpler combos. Some characters have mostly harder combos. That's why the characters are labeled by difficulty on the select screen.

SC2 is easier to pick up and play because moves link together easily and timing is lenient. It's more of a casual game than VF is. The timing is lax enough that mashing is more of a factor as well.

I never said that VF was any easier than SC2. I think it's hard. But it's not THAT hard to play at a ok level. I don't get enough practice, and I get killed when I play experienced people, but I learn something whenever I play high level people, and I adjust myself accordingly. You mix it up, and figure out what you're doing to open yourself, and fight back appropriately.

VF is the thinking man's fighting game, that's for sure. I just think that people don't like to think. They like to hit buttons (but not too many buttons) and see flash. They don't want to have to worry about little things like using combo starters at the right time, or putting effort into a game.

BTW, if you spam Vane's , I'll just block and throw. Or I could dodge the other way. It's not like there isn't a counter.

 

I know you can block vane's . I was just told that I couldn't spam it, and wondering why I was indeed able to spam that move and be very successful while doing it. Also, you can't evade it; it's a mid full-circular.

I'm not too sure on it being throw counterable though. Have to check the frames on it.

KTallguy, I know you didn't say VF is easier than SC2. I'm just responding to KiwE who thinks that VF is such an incredibly easy game to learn that if you dont learn it, you're either lazy or incompetent. I agree that it's hard to learn, in fact, alot of what you've said is the kind of point I"m trying to make. Some stuff that you can get away with, some of the 'easy' juggle and combo starters, and etc that exists in SC2 isn't in VF. And quite frankly, I'm glad. Not to diss SC, but I like VF the way it is, even though it's hard as hell.

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VF is the thinking man's fighting game, that's for sure. I just think that people don't like to think. They like to hit buttons (but not too many buttons) and see flash. They don't want to have to worry about little things like using combo starters at the right time, or putting effort into a game.

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So in essence, you're saying that all the SC2 and Tekken players out there are just lazy, graphics-hungry slobs and whores, who dont like to think in their fighting games?

Learn to play SC2 at a high level. Hell, learn to play Tekken Tag at a high level, or at least observe someone who does. There's thought involved, plenty of it. As far as I know, SC2 has it's own set of high-level tricks and traps to learn. There's just not a dreadfully high learning curve between 'average' players and 'good' players.

 

Maybe I was being a little harsh. I don't think that that's an accurate description of all Tekken and SC2 people. But I believe that flash brings them into the game. It's kind of like, dating a girl with huge tits, but there's nothing in their head, that's pretty much DOA =)

TTT and SC2 have mixups and you do have to think to play high level. I actually really respect TTT, as it has a lot of mix-ups and is a pretty good game, at least better than T4(Too bad mishimas rule the game in TTT).

I dunno, I just think that after VF, I feel like other 3D fighting games don't have the depth. The inbalances are part of that feeling too. That's my opinion of course =)

PS: I only responded to you because my name was in your reply on the top, reply to: KTallguy. If you're responding to a certain person it's better to label it more clearly to avoid confusion, I just thought that smaller part was for KiwE. Sorry =P

 

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I know you can block vane's . I was just told that I couldn't spam it, and wondering why I was indeed able to spam that move and be very successful while doing it. Also, you can't evade it; it's a mid full-circular.

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Vanes is very slow in it's startup adding the chances of you being MC while trying to execute the move (forget about doing it up close at all) and that's it weakness. 8 times out of 10 my boi Brad will even reverse this move if not coming out of a TR. It's not TC normally but actually is in many situations still, you're always at a large disadvantage after doing it when it's blocked meaning that if you even try to (blocked) Brads will win over your , MC it and I can do a 95points of damage combo on you. Now what is faster, a when it's blocked from your part or another one of your 's? It's not even a launcher / combo starter to begin with and it's just 25 fucking points of damage on connect.
Tell me again how you intend to spam this move?

P.S; You not even knowing if it's TC is just plain lame when trying to present an argument over which moves are greatly spammable / imbalanced with your Vane. You trying to tell others that they shouldn't make arguments about other fighting games at the end of your post until they're at a higherlevel while seamingly doing the same at VF, on a VF board, is just plain retarded.

/KiwE (Does Jin's 1,1 and gets +3,+1 on block with no chance of getting 'd while moving forward).

 

This debate seems to bear remarkable similarity to what was on everybodys lips in, say 1999. Read here , if you like to get some reference... /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

If the opponent blocks that attack, you can do + since she is at an advantage.

 

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If the opponent blocks that attack, you can do+ since she is at an advantage.

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Put away your crackpipe there Dean.

 

That is if she is far away enough, yea... I do that a lot. Problem is that people can just block and do a low attack.

 

KiwE, then you should enlighten Maddy, Dandy_J, KTD, and a few others who dont frequent this board about how weak the is.

So now you're gonna attack me because I dont have all the properties of Vane's moves memorized? All I know is from experience, I haven't been thrown out of her . That's probably because of the large knockback you get from it ON BLOCK. Yeah, I know it's not a juggle starter on hit either; vane has almost NO juggle starters to begin with. She's a good character because she has alot of lower-risk (still risky, but they dont leave me as nekkid as with other players) single strikes that do a decent amount of damage. In other words, to win a match with her, I don't NEED any of those nice 4 and 5 hit float combos. All I need to do is land a few solid blows, and the game's mine.

Besides, you'd be pretty dumb to throw out that kick at close range anyways, because as Kiwe pointed out, you'd eat an MC. But at mid range, it comes off pretty nice and makes a great tool to just throw out there randomly. Yes, it's TC, but the stats lie: The knockback on that kick (especially when combined with usage at medium range) makes it impossible for the opponent to reach you with any throws. So it's still a safe move.

And if the opponent doesn't TR, then I get in a free light down attack. Just from experience, I can tell you this move works, and against more people than scrubs.

**edit: I just looked up the properties for Vane's , and it seems that on block she's only at "Dis.l". Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the guide says Dis.l means 5-7 frames disadvantage, and that's just a little short to be throw counterable.**

 

Not trying to ruin your arguments here guys, but aren't this your opinions????

All I'm saying is that the move itself can be used in various ways versus various compeditors who use various tactics and fall for various setups (do I really need to go on?). It's not like you are EVER going to play each other, so why not just agreeing to disagree. I don't think you can argue opinions...

 

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pkg_inc said:
I don't think you can argue opinions...

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^^^^^^^^^^^^u can arugue them, but u cant disprove them. is disprove a word?? i forgot what the prefix was to "not prove"....

 

lets keep this thread on point. no need to discuss VF strats in a discussion on the merits of online fighting games.

To speak around that point I'll just relay some of my experiences playing VF2PC online:

There have been unbelievably crappy moments where the lag is staggering and there have been moments when I felt as though I was playing against someone in the same room.

I've played against locals (45 to an hour away by car), Jerky and Shang in Boston, Jide in the UK, a fellow from Sweden and Adam Yuki from NY. The experience has always been fun.

Lag can and does affect your play. I can knee with Akira before I get online but as soon as I connect I lose the ability. I can SPoD with ease online, low throw whiffed low punches, P counter into throw, escape throws (no multiples in VF2) and perform combos. Llanfair would always nail Iai combos during our sessions which is rigid in its input requirements.

I don't know how VF3 or VF4/evolution would fare online but considering how nicely VF2 runs I think I would welcome the attempt.

You cannot improve on something that isn't made actual in the first place. The world of gaming is fast changing and the manufacturers of gaming products will adapt to those changes. You will see more and more games introduced online. The quicker this happens and is embraced the faster you will see improvements in the field.

I guess what I'm saying is if indications are that the technology isn't up to it right now, so what? It will get there. you have to start somewhere and point A will be great for a lot of people. Point B can't exist without that first step. let it happen and get prepared for the results.

GE
I've also dabbled in TK3 online and had lots of fun with that as well. Catlord and I met up a few times and bashed it out. He mostly practiced combos while I tried to put the squeeze on him; all in all fun I couldn't have had if I worried about the details behind the procedure.

 

I'll reply you in private Joe cause this is hella of topic. You got mail.

 

Which game is TK3? I'm interested...

 

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Pntsnfng_Joe said:

Which game is TK3? I'm interested...

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I believe it is Tekken 3

 

Tekken 3.

PS. Can't wait for TTT online.