Osama bin Laden Killed In Pakistan

Upon reading this, you sound as if these are the only forms of "religion" that are causing mayhem only... Some cats don't realize that there are Hindus who kill, rape and slaughter Muslim believers in the same country they live in. There's Aum Shinrikyo and the gas attacks. Greece and Rome were polytheistic when they were merking cats left and right and taking over. There are terrorists who are atheists or agnostic... So making of "list of religions to remove from earth" won't fix anything... It's the people (more specifically the people's hearts) that need the changing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Love comes with logic, reasoning. Without reasoning there can be no love, but with faith there can be no reasoning, therefore faith and true love are incompatible.</div></div>

I'm only talking about the love aspect of the quote...

It's been said that the one thing that makes us stand apart from animals is our ability to reason. How then can a dog show love and compassion without being able to reason??? Even further, how can babies show signs of love and affection within 4-9 months of existence??? </div></div>

@jinxhand, @libertine

Religions, especially those that are 1500 years old or older are obsolete forms of social technology, that helped early societies on the road to civilization. Religion provided some of our very first notion of laws and government. Religion provided some of our very first notions cause and effect. That is religion was used to explain the whys-and-whatfors of life, to our early societies.

But now with modern science, mathematics, modern forms of government, modern forms of law, the social sciences (psychology, sociology, anthropology,etc) religion has out lived its usefulness and we have out grown its effectiveness.

I singled out Christianity, Islam, and Judaism because between the three of them they comprise the biggest piece of the pie on
planet Earth. The holy books in these three religions, do not promote the pursuit of intelligence, the pursuit of reasoning, the pursuit of logic or the pursuit of mathematics. I know this because I have read them all in depth. I challenge anyone of this site or any other site to prove me wrong about these books not encouraging and insisting on the intellectual and scientific development of the human mind.

Christianity is especially guilty in this regard, because in Hebrews 11, Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. Without faith it is impossible to please God according to Hebrews 11. According to Hebrews 11 by "faith we understand the worlds were formed" Faith is the opposite of reason and they are mutually exclusive. Faith is by definition (according Hebrews Chapter 11) unreasonable.

I am not a transhumanist. Philosohically I primarily a mathematician and a scientist. The physical sciences, the life sciences, the social sciences the earth sciences, mathematics, and logic have replaced religion for me. The world would be a better, safer place if all humans would replace their religion with the physical sciences, the life sciences, the social sciences, the earth sciences, mathematics and logic.

@JINXHAND I made no claim that animals cannot reason. For all I know they do. Baby's are also capable of reasoning from day one Babys begin the reasoning process in the womb. So both afaik are capable of love.

Belief in and following of, 2000 year old deities is one of the most dangerous things that modern man can do.

 

Religion isn't the problem, promoting blind faith and ignorance is.

 

Po, I so disagree with you, its crazy.

If we start discussing this, it will take us forever.

To keep it simple: from a purely utilitarian point of view, the extermination of those who challenge my resources is the best move.

it is only because we recognize a shared humanity with the rest of the world that we dont do it. your way of thinking does not tell you how to relate to others, at all.

PS: most scientists are borderline autistic, its a miracle they are able to reproduce.

 

Blackstar, I agree with your sentiments, but that MLK quote is apocryphal.

 

Religion is just a distraction bro. The Pentagon and Wall Street are not guided by even a crazy Christian ethos. Instead they are a Satanic Property Cult that seeks to dispossess the rest of the world of its resources and keep the lesser nations forever in a state of underdeveloped peonage.

Bin Laden was a distraction as well. Whether he even knew it or not, he was an imperial sock puppet.

 

yes, when I first saw it I never checked but within minutes of looking for the larger context of that statement I found out that it was 'fake'. I never came back to edit it because I didn't really care *where* it came from, the sentiment stands.

 

Matteo we have the time, there are few topics that can be discussed that are more important than this one

The utilitarian point of view doesn't mean anything to me. What 'my resources'? The planet Earth is neither mines to take, nor mines to give.

And reason, dictates how I should relate to others. Reason dictates that if I don't want some one to treat me a certain way, then why would I treat them such. Knowledge of how the Universe works, how it evolves, how we are related gives me my value system. That knowledge shows me my value, and the value of all things. I've been married 35 years. My love for my wife is founded in reason. Adultry is not an option because at the end of the day it is unreasonable, the damage it causes all the way around does not justify any gain from participating in it.
The same goes for lying, stealing, and holding false witness against my neighbor. I chain of inferences that demonstrates its ultimately not in my best interest on anyone elses for me to steal, or lie or murder. I pay my taxes and obey the law because the negative consequences outweigh any advantage I might gain otherwise.

My morality is based on consistency and the symmetry found through out nature. That morality invigorates my logic. The pursuit of truth and the understanding of self is the Universe's prime directive. I share in that the directive with the Universe through the application of science and mathematics
to my experiences in life.

Matteo, at one time in man's history religion and the gods did teach us how to interact with each other, the beasts of the field, and the stars at night. But we have long outgrown religion and the gods, both are no longer necessary. The friction that we have in the form of war and terrorism is a function of the fact that we refuse to put aside religion and the gods.

As far as being autistic, do my posts read like they were written by someone autistic? And make no mistake about it I am a scientist and mathematician both in mind and body.

When I said in order for man to turn the page, we must evolve, I mean we must realize that we are masters of our own ship, and that the entire Universe presents itself to us for examination and understanding and that there is no greater adventure than the pursuit of becoming one with the Universe and others through the understanding of the universe through the enterprises of science and mathematics.

Although we might use science and mathematics to kill, man does not kill in their names. We do however murder in the name of Allah, Jehovah, Jesus, God,

 

The bogus MLK quote was propagated by that douche Penn Gillette.

 

Can we really get off the anti-religion tip here? Bad people use good things for bad purposes all the time, it doesn't devalue the good that comes from the good things though. You can easily make an argument for anything being terrible if you just single out information the way MasterPo and some others here are.

Science is not a replacement for religion; plain and simple. There is nothing about how to relate to God in science, so it's just not the same in any way shape or form. I am a scientist of the human mind and I would never want it, nor attempt for it, to do what religion does for people.

What we are seeing from these terrorist groups are people who are fighting the 21st century way of life basically. They dont' want equal rights for all groups of people. They pretty much want things to go back to the way they were thousands of years ago. They're fighting progress and they'll lose.

It has nothing at all to do with religion. That's just noise to distract.

 

Po you might benefit from reading Sam Harris' The Moral Landscape. The parts of it I've read do a far better job of articulating what you seem to intuitively feel is right. I don't totally agree with him but the idea that cognitive science and psychology can legitimately inform morality is interesting nonetheless.

And again, blaming someone's immoral acts on their religious tradition is pretty glib and bigoted.

 

Cognitive psychology doesn't teach morality. It just shows us how we warp our ways of thinking to make it easier for our brains to process information. Psychology is the study of how we act in the real world, not how we should act. Science doesn't teach morals folks. Science just studies what is, not things as they should be.

A little bit of psychology knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

Well, take that up with Sam Harris. Honestly when I first heard about his ideas I was pretty dismissive but after making some headway in the book I mentioned it seems like he has a decent case to make.

 

Dude I'm a psychologist, I don't need to take it up with Sam Harris. He's just wrong if he's only using psychology as a means of holding moral standings. He must be using something outside the scope of science like his opinion on what being a good person means and what not.

 

There's a discrepancy with this, and its something that even gung-ho Christians get all mixed up over... From a Christian standpoint, science should be something that compliments, not conflicts or corrupt... People should go out and discover the things of the earth, how they possibly were formed, and all the other mysteries the earth (and things around it) have to offer. Things like this does require intelligence or the pursuit of it, right??? I mean there's tons of theories, and hypotheses that need to be formed and either proven or disproven. Same goes for math, physics, whatever...

The book of Proverbs has a good example of wise words, and challenges to seek wisdom, which comes from God. Wisdom, while is a virtue, is intelligence. In fact, when you look up the word wisdom, you will find that intelligence is one of the words used to explain wisdom, but in essence its highly more valuable than mere intelligence. So, how then can the bible, which comes from God, not challenge people to seek intelligence??? God did not make us to be stupid people... Granted, there are things in a believer's life that requires faith, but that in itself is a challenge, because people on this earth seek reasoning, even when a particular situation really doesn't warrant any reasoning whatsoever... Exercising one's faith doesn't limit the person at all... In fact, it should make them a better person...

When you read these books, the Bible, Quran and Torah, do you read it to truly seek understanding, or are you going about it like Bill Maher??? There's nothing wrong with testing the scriptures, in fact, the Bible says to do so, but going about things in a manner to specifically spite something is not the way to go... Now if that's not the case, then I apologize in advance... I'm just simply wondering whats with the whole beef-- bad history maybe???

 

As far as I'm concerned, there really are only two types of ethics:

moral imperatives & divine rules,

something its either wrong in itself, or its wrong because god says so,

the problem is, how do we know if something is wrong in itself? cultures around the world seem to value different things, EG: some people would like to die with dignitiy and ask for the right to end their lives, others think life is too precious to allow this.

in the absence of a universal agreement on what is right and wrong, some take divine commands as good enought rules.

the problem with science is that its not really helpful in deciding what is the best course of action. for example, should we try to eliminate disabilities from our biological make-up, or should instead strive to make society more tolerant towards disable people? science itself does not care about equality, all it cares is about pushing the limits of what is possible.

 

science actually doesn't have an agenda.

 

Hey thanks for the snap response at a position I didn't even claim as my own. You dismissed an idea I offered to masterpo (not you) as something he might take an interest in. All I meant by 'take it up with Sam Harris' is a suggestion to figure out what Harris is getting at beyond my half-assed description. I wasn't attempting to question your authority on the subject of psychology as a whole (I've only taken a handful of psych classes myself). Also: tbqh, The Moral Landscape is a book I set out to read because I hated his thesis, but it went better than expected, blah blah blah etc. etc.