REAL Kung Fu

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

aw for fucks sake.

do you realise with that post, you've just redefined the meaning of moron?!

for gods sake man, the only thing you're proving here is that you know didly squat about martial arts in general. why dont you do yourself a favour and stop embarassing yourself any further.

i tried to give you a chance to redeem yourself but the longer this mockery of a discussion goes on, the more i realise that you know nothing about martial arts or the practicalities of it.

so, in essence just shut up. no-one with a right mind would listen to a half wit like you.

thats my 2 cents.........

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

This thread has gotten very interesting and lasted a lot longer than expected with everyone being pretty polite compare to pass martial arts threads.

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

Anyone who thinks wing chun works is an idiot. That's all i have to say.

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

[ QUOTE ]
There's no smart way to fight when your opponent has a weapon or you're outnumbered. The idea is, get the fuck out of there. If two attackers are intent on taking you out, you are fucked 99% of the time.

Those dances and choreographing these martial arts call knife defenses are utterly worthless. Teaching that kind of shit to people is what gets them killed.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ever heard of something called war? You see, in this war thing, there's like 10 million other motherfuckers that are out to kill your ass.Not only that, but they don't give a shit if they have to use guns, bombs, poison gas, ninjas or any other kind of bullshit to kill your ass. But you see, there're guys that come through that maelstrom alive. Some even come out unscathed.

Back in the day, it wasn't much different. In fact, war was a lot more brutal in the past. But there were still dudes who came out of all of it alive and well. There were guys who had slain hundreds over their lifetime. These guys created this shit called martial arts, to pass down their knowledge to future generations. Think about those baby-eating badasses whenever you diss on kung fu or whatever.

Oh yea, and like 93% of people who could throw a punch could probably whip your ass like 87% of the time. Statistics are fun!

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

[ QUOTE ]
vanity said:

Anyone who thinks what i say works is an idiot. That's all i have to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

too right, too right.

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

Aaaand video time:
Crap vid quality but worth a look : )
Why is Dural so good in Vf? It's cause she/it has all the best moves (frames etc),
So with that line of thought every martial arts has something good that can be taken from it in my opinion, yes even wing chun /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

martial arts etc

Wing Chun takes a lot of hits and some for very good reasons. One of the biggest issues (IMO) this art has is it operates on an assumption of a compliant opponent. Chi Sao is a great sensitiviy drill and can teach a lot of very positive attributes: relaxation, balance, using your opponents force against them. I don't think Chi Sao is meant to be used as taught in a fighting situation but the principles of Chi Sao are sound and can be used in a real fight.

Fast hands don't necessarily mean power. Dean is right about the difference in a boxing punch and a Wing Chun chain punch. I've seen people take 4 or 5 hits (that were fast but sacraficing power in the meantime), not get overwhelmed and deliver one strong blow that ended the match. I've seen T'ai Chi used effectively in a full contact match so I don't see why Wing Chun couldn't. That said, I have yet to see a Wing Chun practitioner fare well in a tournament when they weren't fighting others from the same school of thought. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen but evidence to the contrary is stronger.

Sidekicks. They are hard to use properly. While they generate a lot of force they can be easily jammed or avoided. There are easier kicks to land in a fight and those should probably be utilized over a sidekick but it is like any counter opportunity. If you wait for your moment you can sieze it. A good sidekick is your friend if you know how to use it.

GE

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

[ QUOTE ]
vanity said:

I'm sorry, but the video you uploaded of the guy doing uncommitted slaps don't hurt. if he fought someone with 1 week boxing experience he would get killed.

I mean honestly, who does wing chun, then does boxing, and then goes, "wow, my wing chun is really practical".

These slaps look really nice, I'll admit, but I've still never seen them used on a resisting opponent. Simply because they don't work.

Not to mention anyone with a decent double leg could take that guy to the ground.

[/ QUOTE ]
6 months of boxing vs 6 months wing chung...wing chung dude going to the hospital to be recesistated..boxer going to hospital to get broken fingers mended.

 

Re: martial arts etc

[ QUOTE ]
GodEater said:

Wing Chun takes a lot of hits and some for very good reasons. One of the biggest issues (IMO) this art has is it operates on an assumption of a compliant opponent. Chi Sao is a great sensitiviy drill and can teach a lot of very positive attributes: relaxation, balance, using your opponents force against them. I don't think Chi Sao is meant to be used as taught in a fighting situation but the principles of Chi Sao are sound and can be used in a real fight.

Fast hands don't necessarily mean power. Dean is right about the difference in a boxing punch and a Wing Chun chain punch. I've seen people take 4 or 5 hits (that were fast but sacraficing power in the meantime), not get overwhelmed and deliver one strong blow that ended the match. I've seen T'ai Chi used effectively in a full contact match so I don't see why Wing Chun couldn't. That said, I have yet to see a Wing Chun practitioner fare well in a tournament when they weren't fighting others from the same school of thought. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen but evidence to the contrary is stronger.

Sidekicks. They are hard to use properly. While they generate a lot of force they can be easily jammed or avoided. There are easier kicks to land in a fight and those should probably be utilized over a sidekick but it is like any counter opportunity. If you wait for your moment you can sieze it. A good sidekick is your friend if you know how to use it.

GE

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally agree...the biggest difference is that a boxer is also used to getting hit a lot and pretty hard. The defensive manuevers of boxing, while maybe more "primitive" are definatly more intuitive and more reliable. I have also seen wing chung people who can fight, but they are more the exception than the rule.

Society has been the downfall of Tai Chi (from that I mean movies and womens/old people fitness clubs). Tai Chi, like most martial arts, was created to be a form of self defense. IT has some very powerful strikes and close range clinch work. THe problem is finding someone who knows wtf they are doing with tai chi and who also lets people spar full out. The only real way to know if something works is to test it against a fully reisting opponent.

I love the side kick, but it is not one of my "fall back" kick - ie, not something I will resort back to when other shit is not working. A side kick to the knee, ribs, and chin can be great, but like you said, it is generally a slow kick and easy to jam, deflect, or otherwise avoid.
Happy poundings!

Oh yeah...Krazy Horse by armbar!

 

Re: martial arts etc

[ QUOTE ]
THe problem is finding someone who knows wtf they are doing with tai chi and who also lets people spar full out. The only real way to know if something works is to test it against a fully reisting opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

With that said, I agree w/ ma0 on this and most creditable martial arts has a organization that is the standard for their style. For me I know for a fact JKA=Japan Karate Association is mostly regard as the standard for Shotokan in Japan. In their golden era late 60s to the early 80s JKA probably some of the most skilled karate ka's of all karate organizations combined. Even they aren't as strong as they use to be but still they have a few instructors in my opinion karate wise are best of the best techique wise.

As in regards to other chinese martial arts I don't know but if there is skilled instructor then you can see why that certain style/art is effective. If you can't found that person or insitution forget it you think that way because some many of the easier styles or culture confusion surrounding it will prevent you from knowing that.

My opinion for the stupids and less effective style has to be TKD. Oh yeah that vid of the monk and the TKD guy both fucking idiots not much skillz and definitely no balls regardless of their size. Knowing how small ma0 is he probably kick both their ass @ once.

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

Well i think it works for some not for others. Just like karate works for some and not for others. Main reason i say this is becasue i've seen 'proficeint' practioners of both these arts get their buts kicked in street fights and i've also very few practioners kick someone's (or multiples) on the street , especially against gang members - btw these were great to watch.
But a couple things also go along with MA that people forget go along with any type of fights - Adrenaline and mental strength / crazyness .
There are countless time skinny Motherf#kers beat the crap of some really builtdude (both with no type of training except the street) ; also someone trained in MA get beat up by a veteran street brawler - why , because someone rely s on their heart / mind rather than their braun + adrenaline goes along way in these fights. how many peopel done we see continue fighting with a broken arm, bleed head from bottle shots?

martial artist are the same way, we tend to rely on the 'mystic' magic that the art has prepped us for everything ; not know that maybe some of these grandmasters/ teachers actually have fighting mind and braun to go along with their mentality.
But, i dont trust wing chun for me, but i have seen only 1 person use it, and beat the crap out of somebody in a confrontation; i've also seen other get man handled (i felt bad too)..

that is what i think bruce lee had as well and he also had a great appetitie for learning - which why he picked up kali really quick as well.

That why we all need to go to theses seminars:
Im surprised no one mentioned the dog brothers though. I love these guys too and they practice what they preach live.. a bit brutal,, to the point that UFC didnt want them to do an exhibition match for the fans, but still fun to watch. Makes me want to practice my modern arnis,,but im scared

quick clip:

http://dogbrothersvideo.com/dbmaa02.wmv


longer:

promo vid
http://www.dogbrothersvideo.com/promo01.wmv

crafty dog
http://dogbrothersvideo.com/2004craftydemo.wmv

 

Re: martial arts etc

damnit, nobody has anything to say?

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

[ QUOTE ]
_optimus_ said:


So with that line of thought every martial arts has something good that can be taken from it in my opinion, yes even wing chun /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Which is exactly why Bruce Lee was such a genius. He took what works from various combat methods, and discarded what didn't work, effectively becoming the 'Dural' of the Martial Arts world.

Look at it this way, no one can honestly claim that there is an Art which has no useful techniques at all, not even one technique for one specific situation, so where is the harm in learning this art, even if it is only to have the ability to use this one specific technique in this one specific situation?
Again, back to Bruce Lee's mentality, use what works, discard what doesn't. It would be no good for someone of his size to learn moves which lift the opponent above the head and toss them to the ground, or to try and learn some kind of crushing bearhug type move, because it wouldn't work for him. This doesn't mean that these techniques are useless in an absolute sense, they just wouldn't be effective for a person of his size.
Similarly, it wouldn't be very wise for someone who is 6.9ft tall, and 400lb to try and use a combination of spinning kicks and sweeps, because they just don't have the physique. The idea behind Bruce Lee's methods means that JKD for one person can be totally different to another's, which is why I think he was such a great man; he developed a philosophy which allows each indiviual to use their own strengths, and not have to use techniques which they will be weak at performing.

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

And that's the great thing about real martial arts, like BJJ and boxing.

they work for everyone.

yes you need to play your own game and use what works for you, but it really is pretty cut and dry. some shit works, and a lot of stuff doesn't.

wing chun is one of those things that doesn't.

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

Ok, dude now you're exaggerating by calling him a genius

It's easy make things fit you, it's a lot harder to work @ something and fit it to it's fullest potiential.

He was damn good but not that good. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Re: The fallacy of 'self defence' in the modern world.

Just my perspective...you should not make yourself fit within the art, but the art fit you.

 

Abusing Google video

Cool vid of shaolin kung fu fighter vs tkd:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7324505260945830142&q=fight

/KiwE

 

Re: Abusing Google video

really cool,, thx - it was lei fei live for a second

 

Re: Abusing Google video

duh Kiwee I posted that a few posts ago lol /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Those vids of them stick guys is crazy, do they compete in ufc or mma events in general?

 

Re: Abusing Google video

Sorry optimus >_<;;

But! I'll make amense for it by posting this OT video of a very cool guy named TAK

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7966669273181924774

^____^

/KiwE