Republicans

Re: Ranting Time

but you didnt answer my question as to why you think everyone is able to migrate to a country that works for their needs, yet americans are not (dem or rep).. Just curious like (sweden, canada, holland, etc. where the countries have more social programs).
Plus what about countries like venzuela , cuba, etc, where socialism is big,, dont they prey on the poor as well?

You see,, that is what i'm talking about.. I come from a background where if working for 6 or 2 bucks an hour is all there is,, then i better be the best at it. So i dont' think you're argument holds true for new americans (1st generations). If my IT job goes away, i have my hands to work with.
but not saying that this is right, just saying that i dont think i would feel an outrage because, I and others like me, either:
a) know that back home is worse or
b) since we can migrate here with nothing and to start off with nothing, migrating somewhere else where there is more opportunity isnt any harder.

is this just an american taboo, to think of migrating somewhre that is better for your needs??

 

Re: Ranting Time

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MADrox said:
is this just an american taboo, to think of migrating somewhre that is better for your needs??

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Yes. We're all led to believe that this is the greatest country on earth and you're crazy if it doesn't suit you. Whether any of that is true is irrelevant, that is the attitude that we've been raised in.

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SgtRamRod said:It's the CEOs and captains of industry who are the biggest supporters of the Republican Party. Do you think they really give a shit about abortion or gay marriage? Of course not. If Christianity encourages the believer to pursue a spiritually rich life then how can these guys be good Christians? They have devoted their lives to the acquisition of riches and material possessions.

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So you're saying that just by virtue of them owning a very successful company, they have no spirituality and spend their life in the sole pursuit of material possessions? That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, because it can quite neatly sidestep actually looking at these 'rich people' as real human beings, if you aren't careful.

Just because someone's rich doesn't mean they are a bad person, and just because someone is poor, doesn't make them a good person.

If you have a problem with corporations and their influence on the country, the blame should more appropriately be placed on the society, not the people taking advantage of it. As a kid, you may have heard the advice to just ignore a bully. You might now about how effective the phrase "Stop picking on me" is. Telling corporations and the government to stop taking advantage of American stupidity is the exact same thing. They may pretend to do it to your face, but the next moment they'll be right back at you again. If you want to eliminate vote-buying, government corruption, and big-business owning everything, you have to educate everyone.

 

Re: Ranting Time

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Madrox said: but you didnt answer my question as to why you think everyone is able to migrate to a country that works for their needs, yet americans are not (dem or rep).. Just curious like (sweden, canada, holland, etc. where the countries have more social programs).

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Well, for one thing, it is not so easy to move and work in countries like Canada, Holland, Sweden, etc. Their generous welfare states require them to limit immigration. I personally do not wish to live in a different country just to receive public relief from the government. I just wish that my own country had a compassionate way of treating the most powerless members of our society.

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Plus what about countries like venzuela , cuba, etc, where socialism is big,, dont they prey on the poor as well?


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The poor are not as exploited or ignored in Cuba as they are in our nation. The vast majority of Cubans have a very low standard of living and poverty is the most common condition, although there is universal (low-quality, I think) health care and just about everyone is literate. I think that Castro's Cuba sucks, but I also think that our continued embargo of that coutry is to some degee responsible for the plight of Cubans, and that the embargo persists to largely to placate a deranged, politically mobilized Cuban expatriate minority in Florida.

As for Venezuela, Chavez has greatly increased social programs aimed at the poor. Venezuela can afford to do this because of their oil reserves. The U.S. hates Chavez because he has partly nationalized his nation's petroleum business. My question is, if a country is democratic, why the fuck would it not nationalize its petroleum industry? Because the struggling masses would hate to deprive oil executives of their $Billions?

I personally believe that the US must seriously limit the amount of immigrants who enter our nation. If we don't, the economic conditions of working class people will continue to deteriorate. I do not see why the poor in Latin America should have the right to come to the U.S. when the poor people around the world do not have the same option. I'm not saying that we should start deporting everyone, but we do need to address the number of immigrants we can allow in without undermining American workers' interests.

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is this just an american taboo, to think of migrating somewhre that is better for your needs?

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Dude, America is wealthy enough that Americans should not feel like there is no opportunity here. But maybe another four years of Bush would make it so...

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Painty J said: So you're saying that just by virtue of them owning a very successful company, they have no spirituality and spend their life in the sole pursuit of material possessions? That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, because it can quite neatly sidestep actually looking at these 'rich people' as real human beings, if you aren't careful.


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I was specifically refering to rich Republican backers. I don't think I can speak to all of their religious beliefs, but I do think that the single-minded pursuit of riches seems to contradict my understanding of the transcendent nature of a life in Christ or whatever.

I also don't think that we have to worry about me or anyone else treating wealthy people inhumanely. They are after all the most enfranchised group on the planet. I do think that rich people are often assholes though. Maybe not everyone, but a good majority of rich people are privileged, white, and possessed of strong senses of entitlement and superiority, and of arrogance borne of being exempt from the threats posed by life's harsher contingencies. This could probably apply to rich Americans accross the political spectrum, but applies most to rich Republicans (Think W).

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If you want to eliminate vote-buying, government corruption, and big-business owning everything, you have to educate everyone.

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Many people need to be educated to be sure, but the tools of mass-communication are all in the hands of corporate America. You have to love media concentration.

 

Re: Ranting Time

Cuba despite its poverty has a higher literacy rate and education rate then the US, life expectancy is higher then the US as well.

Not bad for a third world country id say.

 

Re: Ranting Time

Ramrod, that's just it: You DON'T have to single-mindedly pursue money in order to become rich. Republican or not, it doesn't matter. Rich people are just people, and there's just as many poor people who single-mindedly pursue wealth as there are wealthy people.

 

Re: Ranting Time

that is really a skewed statement...lets see how cuba would do if they had a population the size of the united states....a more comparable country might be S.Korea, with about a 98% literacy rate.

 

Re: Ranting Time

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Shadowdean said:

that is really a skewed statement...lets see how cuba would do if they had a population the size of the united states....a more comparable country might be S.Korea, with about a 98% literacy rate.

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How is it skewed?

 

Re: Ranting Time

Fishie, I don't know. A smaller country = fewer people
also:
less money
fewer other resources.

So if everything for them is smaller, then why is Cuba a bad example?

 

Re: Ranting Time

Which is my point, they have less money, less resources, etcetera etcetera yet they still beat out the US in education and life expectancy amongst others.
A third poor third world country that has a higher life expectancy then the richest country in the world, thats gotta say something.

 

Re: Ranting Time

wow,, great many points:::
first to everyone,, i'm glad everyone is very open and honest , not a dickhead ,, most people i try to converse with (on both sides) get soooo red in the face from getting angry that its hard to hold a conversation..

anyway:

I'm not talking about just what the U.S. has that you shouldnt have to feel to move. Everyone feels that about their own country ,, that they shouldn't have to move, but unfortunately people do move and countries fail to meet the peoples needs. So when this happens in the U.S.,, i was asking why don't people just try to move where it feels more appropriate?? It is almost a 'love it or leave it ' attitude, but I'm mainly asking why is htis motto good for immigrants to follow and not for americans too?? I personally know i cant do better anywhere in Central or South America.

As far as immigration, i know i sound like a hipocrate but i too agree that there should be a limit.. Unfortunatley the immgrants are taking the blame and I dont see any party this year addressing this issue. I really don't see any party any year making a plan to crack down on businessess that do hire illegal immigrants. Republicans seem to think that an army at the border would stop jobs losses or illegal immigration.. but from personal experience (even currently) many immigrants WILL NOT STAY here if there were no jobs,, Hence a crackdown on corporations and large business doesnt sound to good to either party, wonder whY? just keep blaming the people for coming. I know we would have migrated elsewhere or back home if my mom, aunts, etc, would never find a job.

I like your points on Venezuela, but my negative views of the country come not only from the 45% of people in venezuela but also the majority of other latin american countries citizens polls. I do think other countries should take hard stances like Chavez, but not at the expense of its peoples rights. Chavez is working in conjuction with cuba , almost like grenada in the 80's, and that is another reason he is disliked in the amereica's.
I do agree the sanctions on cuba do no good for anyone and are accomplishing nothing.

All you're points are things i dont understand from the left..
1) we see large social program nations have limits on immigration
2) we see social nations like china, cuba, venezuala (pretty much is socialist) take advantage of human rights issues.
3) We do see that open borders will have a negative affect on americans.

why do we want ot impose these ideas on american then? I definately know the wrongs in capatism,, but i guess i dont see socialist ideas being good. Im using Cuba/China/noth korea/ and many american countries / old russia as my models..
Should i use another country instead??

 

Re: Ranting Time

What you fail to see here is that the US is NOT a pure capitalist state and has shitloads of socialist measures incorporated to make its particular brand of capitalism more or less work.

You have anti trust laws, welfare towards large corporations, import tariffs, anti monopoly laws etcetera etcetera.

Until the US comes clean and faces up to the fact(to themselves) that that which they hold to be true is nothing more then a scam they wont be able to provide for social change that drives the entire country and with that the entire world forward.

 

Re: Ranting Time

but if it is such a scam,, who is being scammed???
americans?? maybe,,
but then immigrants ?? dont they take advantage of this scam? or are their countries running bigger scams? with the help of the U.S.

 

Re: Ranting Time

Well, the scam is that we're supposed to be a pure capitalism society, I think. We have a good batch of socialism thrown in though, to keep the population from destroying the capitalism.