Shun special stances strategy

Turns out I'd reserved one post too many! Sorry about that. Anyway, so as to not make this a total waste of space, here is a L.A. Akira match featuring usage of Chou:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymyP_tqiB48

I hope it's cool to re-post this, otherwise I guess a moderator will remove it.

In the future, I am going to look at slightly simpler stances for Shun, because this is turning out to be a lot of work.
I think Zabantetsu (sitting) and Tentouritsu (handstand) will be the focus of my next posts. In the meantime, cheers to you all!

 

Fantastic work Keep it up for all us "novice drinkers"

I hate the Tentouritsu stance. I get hit 98% of the time while in it, only useful to me for the throw - which may or may not work.

Anyway, I'm awaiting Your next diagram of Shun possibilities

 

From oushin to tentouritsu by K+G is +7 on block, so K stops everything (and is -18 on block). If throw is ducked, Shun is #%##%. I find K+G hard to use and P+K (P+K+G) needs range. Tentouritsu = limited sex appeal.

Sitting is better (at fuckin last!), P (high) gives 109 dmg on normal hit if not struggled, 120 on CH (assuming 8 dp). On zero dp, 1P+K (might) combo for 74 dmg (86 dmg). Low kick combos normal, 44 dmg on 0 dp, on CH 53 dmg, on block -15. The mid attack (K) also launches on normal hit (50/60 dmg on 0dp). Holy shit, all moves launch, on normal hit lmao! :-D
Pressing 4 goes to tentouritsu, which might (just might) make its K+G eat something. Would't count on it.

Nice stuff on other stances. I'm not sure if it was mentioned but choukarou K on CH launches and on 8 dp takes 85 dmg. A nice mixup! Crouch stagger is worse, but PP does 15 more dmg here too (PP, 2P; mid weights, min 4 dp).

 

Totally forgot the P+K+G roll from tentouritsu. It's cool, since roll can cancel into oushin which keeps mindfuck going. At Evo12, Fuudo did roll to oushin to K+G and scored about always (top trolling indeed!). Close by tentouritsu remains still shitty though imho, but since everything else seems so beefed up I should check it out more closely too. Everything that ends with oushin tends to rock (if utilized properly).

 

Some thoughts here on Soukokukyu (P+K) (or K+G_4). The stance is cool, since it allows for interesting and similar options on block and hit. First i write on the face fwd version, since BT version is quite different in many ways and demands some conditioning to enter and really utilize. Unlike Choukarou or perhaps Oushin, Souko and Souko BT are not too important for core Shun strategy, but nice to know and are a nice yomi exercise (and look cool!).

At 16f exe (covers back), P+K does high-mid hits for 20 dmg and gives +2 on NH and CH and -2 on guard. You can move back and front or sidestep which cancels out of the stance. Moves include 13f PP which are two linear hit-confirmable mids with knockdown by second P; K(_) for 18f Choukarou transition or (crappy?) backstep to Soukokukyu; a stomach covering 18f low K (2K); a 20f high/mid punch (and more) sabaki which staggers with first high hit and knock back with second mid hit; finally a 26f low crush somersault kick launcher.

Crude options are, considering opponent just tries to attack asap:

- On guard, opponents (opps for short) P loses for P, 2P and 14f mids so that's not too hot here. Shun can bd or evade away or watch/guess how opponent reacts.

On block, against P ((G) without _6), just staying in the stance may well make the punch whiff, which may open a window for easy PP mid fishing. If you know P, 6P or some other fast/straightforward attack is coming,

P+K easily hits and staggers standing attackers for some mind games. P+K also covers Shun's back, so it's hot for smelling a mid and/or back evade. I think P+K is the safest option and the one that conditions opponent the most against attacking (whereas other options may become more viable). Second P mid continues to animation that adds 5 DP to Shun's liver enzymes and can be canceled too. Definitely one of the coolest moves in the fg history.

For high attack retaliation (and some mids maybe?) and stomach evade killing 2K option works nicely and allows for an about 50+ dmg combo to boot. Just keep in mind 2K seems to lose to basic elbows (unlike P+K) so there's is a classic mixup here! Unluckily 2K is -15 - not very bad but needs CH to launch (very nice 4f on NH though!). K+G kills 2P and launches but requires yomi since 2P seems to hit in all other cases when P+K get blocked.

K is not recommended here at all, forget it.


2: On Normal and Counter Hit (NH) PP becomes an killer option. Although PP is linear, at 13f it eats even 11f punches at +2 after P+K (NH) and hit-confirms for a knockdown and 43 dmg. Obviously, opponent learns to fear this and may evade either way (P+K and 2K cover those) and K becomes an option, specifically K_ since K return to Soukokukyu with -14f(!!!) for whatever reason. K and K_ buttstagger on ANY hit and allows for options like PP from K_ Choukarou (pretty far but PP, KP and small jump + throw threat possible). On block after P+K hit Choukarou K is +6 and allows for shenanigans covered on page one of the thread.


Next... perhaps some deeper insight and testing into Souko moves like P+K stagger options, since BT Souko is (intertwined, but) quite different.

 

Like 3P, GK has strong high attacks evading properties to keep in mind too. Since 6P (KG) P can be delayed to really piss off opponents, he may try a quick 11/12f P to interrupt. When 6P is blocked this (and some other quick highs) case, KG ducks and leaves him wide open for KG P followup (CH hit on fast reaction) and -3 on block instead of -10.

Also, this may be The setup for P+K booze spit which gives +10 to play with. I guess these would be stronger if there was no -10 for that second 6P P hit. For many string retaliations, I guess Oushin is not bad, but loses to immediate elbow class attack and 2P.

For 2P spammers, 6 K+G scorpion kick does the usual ~50+ dmg even on -5 situation, like aforementioned 6P.

 

Shun's jumping attacks are interesting too, since three of them can be cancelled by Oushin (P+K+G) for different setups. I tested some basic situations on block of these moves here.

- 7/8/9 K (P+K+G)

Two footed jumping kick to Oushin. Although kick seem identical, the forward one keeps Shun closer to opponent and is more interesting. At +5, Shun can kill 2P with K P K (last hit mixup 2KK on 10 DP). Oushin P also comes to question with a slight delay for some stagger action. K+G loses to 2P this time, sorry. A little delayed P+K may CH launch when timed well ag 2P for a good combo.

- 9 P+K (covers Shun's back)

Shun spins in the air and mid punches opp for a KD, ends in head towards Oushin for oki games. At -4, this move looks like a bad idea to hit on block since 2P shortly launches him (a minor combo possible too?), but K+G breakdance kick actually kills it for a KD. The same goes for 6P too. After Tentouritsu, cancelling the stance or the usual P+K roll to Oushin okizeme is supreme. Oushin K does in this stance a monkey kick launcher which hits for a CH ag 2P, but at -11 on block.

- 9 K+G

At +2, Shun can still do the K P K (last hit mixup 2KK on 10 DP) series to beat 2P. Other than that, there is little to do. Shun can Oushin evade 2P to opps back (easier I think) to buy some time. This move is hot near walls, the other ones have more pressure use imho.

 

One funny sidenote. In Oushin (head towards) Shun can avoid 2P retaliation after a blocked P (-2) by P+G throw animation! Of course, another P after a blocked one in mid (Oushin) range is one of the most annoying Shun tactics Of All Time, but anything that makes it even cooler is worth some vodka!

 

Hello everyone!

I'm really sorry I dropped the ball on this thread. Without getting to personal, alot of real life stuff happened to me in 2012-now, and VFDC simply could not be a priority. I apologise.

That said, I do intend to finish this. I've been looking at sitting stance to get back into the groove of things, and hope to post my writeup on that either this or next week. Really appreciate the input you've contributed here as well, good stuff.

Take care everyone!

 

Hi again! As you can see, I'm not anymore a Shun CM, but all those hidden Shun lurker armies need not worry as there is gonna be lots of cool stuff coming from my drunk lab as a free spirit from now on! I hope someone with more time/resources takes up the mantle soon.

First some update for that two hitting P+K (to SOU). As such, P+K is a 17f exe and a half-circ high-to-mid with limited range, which means it's not for throwing around just for the sake of it. For many purposes (especially as a poke) it arguably seems that K+G is muchos better (but of course it's often expected like christmas and loses to front evade).

But things are rarely that obvious. I've noticed that P+K is a nice pressure tool for a hasty front evade + attack tactic at around -6 and more (since people start evading then) from Shun's front aka stomach (it covers back) because of the second mid hit, since immediatedly executed it stops any instant counter attacks after the front evade and as such may grant +8 on CH for an excellent SOU mixup (enough time for K_ to CHOU setups in addition to the usual set). Even on NH (for those making another evade, as it often catches those too), the second mid hit produces +3 so that hit-confirmable PP series forever interrupts all fast normal attacks like P/2P, also the 11f ones. When blocked (at -2), Shun must choose from a half-circular high sabaki or high/low crush, since Shun cannot block himself (not a good thing but still something). It IS possible to evade both P+K hits, but I need to go to lab for studying that out in addition to what blocked moves it stops.

So technically, it seems that in +6 to evade to front situations, P+K (SOU) may act as a bit of a full circular! This kind of stuff is sorely needed, since Shun's normals stance attacks are all evadable to front, with 1KK and 9 P+K being the only notable exceptions (with their obvious shortcomings) and sweeps are... sweeps.

Interestingly, against people who try to _instant_ evade and P (or 2P) and as a counter tactic from sideturn defensive position (I tested with OM to P+K) the second mid P+K hit connects and lead again to sideturned position! From there it's +10 and because it's sideturned grants free 13f PP from Soukokukyu and a knockdown! Anything else than quick evade and instant attacking does not cut it though.