Some pointers for fighting against Akira

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

hey azu, didnt read the previous posts.. cus im at work and i dont have much time on VFDC. Can u send me the wolf vid, i always love looking at VF at evry angle and especially players angle, so i can understand ur concept and modify if i have to. i could use some pointers vs wolf. I duno why but wolf is prob one of my worst match ups. lol, azu why do u always get in trouble each time u post a vid..lol, neways, id love to watch the vid where u show WOLF STRATS. much appreciated.

PAI, LAU, BLAZE(prob because i dont know),and wolf,shun.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

I'm looking forward to watching the Wolf video. Love it when people care and contribute.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

I never said that people automatically side with your opinion. I commented that your opinion was strong and that people give exponential weight to your reply. I think you can see the difference there.

Your eagerness to engage me won't change your opinion and you're only repeating what you've already said. I addressed your questions the best that I could. I told you I added in the training mode example to clarify the purpose of the Sabaki. I notice people gloss over videos and they may not read the notes. Often when things connect in a match, a viewer may not ask themselves why something was attempted. When I watch videos, I find myself wondering why a player would repeatedly attempt something that whiffed. This tutorial was an attempt to get people thinking in this manner.

I showed Wolf being put at -8 in the tutorial and choosing between abare P and ETEG. I merely wanted to show that these were two common options. If you look at the training mode clip in context with the whiffed sabaki, you'll understand I tried to sabaki because at -8 there are some players who will attempt to clash. If the Wolf player attempted the P at -8, my sabaki would have landed. I didn't want people to gloss over the sabaki landing. I wanted to show why a Wolf player might react with P after guarded regret discharge by adding in the training mode clip showing a clash at -8.

On the specifics for fighting against Wolf, I think all the abare, side kicking, low-lariat and the round of semi-circular moves were to show how many Wolf players use the character in a manner I've seen more often than not on Live. I didn't want to show how to blaze through that style of Wolf play since it would be too one sided and I would draw the criticism of my first tutorial. You're right much of the advice can be applied to the entire cast. I only made a small number of notes. I felt it was important to show some ducking, a fuzzy guard and that so many of Wolf's common moves are semi-circular. I felt it was important to show why Wolf would P at -8 and why I would attempt sabaki as a reaction. I made a different presentation compared to the match with Jeff that showed fewer wasted inputs and opportunities. I know you consider it a poor example, poor presentation and unclear.

You only addressed my concern with a short reply that you don't think you're the judge. Fine with me. You know I disagree and that's just not how I've seen any community work. There will always be some form of structure with a leader who acts as a judge among community members. Family, friends and work all have it. Forgive me for repeating myself, but I wondered what would happen if you took the same cynical tone with your future wife, girlfriend or a friend after they had made a contribution on a hobby you both share. I sincerely hope that with this reply you have the answers to your questions. If your most recent reply showed some restraint, I would've obliged your request, but as it is IMO, we wouldn't get anywhere further.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

"Let's get something done. Let's work things out."

"No. I'm taking the ball home with me. So there."[/size]

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Pretty much sums this whole topic up

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Plauge, i'll try to edit in your summary to the conversation.

"I want to contribute something. Look for X."[/size]

"Ok listen, I don't have a problem with X. I still think you could have done much better. The way you presented it is poor, the examples of X aren't clear. I was expecting X to look like XXXXX...One of your X looks correct, but are you sure it's clear you intended X since you input repetitively? Let me show you a surprise. *show surprise*. I'm not sure you showed why using X was important. I'm not sure some parts of X would be useful to your target audience."

"Let me explain how to look at it."[/size]

"I still don't have a problem with X. This doesn't change the fact that the way you present X in your examples is poor.

"You're mean for saying that. Since you don't like how I presented X, I'll delete it. Your review of my contribution was critical, especially coming from someone that people look up to as a leader."[/size]

"I don't consider myself the judge. I don't think people agree with my advice automatically. I admit I was a little cynical. Let's not focus on personal comments, let's focus on the video. You still didn't answer two of my questions. *bold two questions* You should re-post the video."

"I don't think people agree with you automatically, but you're in a role with authority. Most communities work that way. Here are the answers to your two questions. It's clear you don't like the presentation, so I'm not re-uploading it. I don't think we're being productive by going in circles and repeating what we've already said."[/size]

Plague why have you ignored the fact that "working something out" applies to both of us? I don't know how you interpreted what Myke said with what you summarized. Myke said, yeah I was being cynical...you still didn't answer two of my questions, *bold questions*. I really do hope that Myke thinks I answered his questions and will just give me some leeway in the future. For the benefit of individual posters they can take it to PM with me and I'll show them the video if they think it will have benefit to them. After reading my exchange to Myke and our replies, I'm left with a sour feeling like I did something wrong to contribute.

 

Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

*[/size]Plague[/size] avoids trap [/size]

 

Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

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Your reply is a rehash of what you've already said and now we're going in circles. Your cynical tone is unmistakable and offering to screen my videos is totally what a judge, leader, moderator etc. would propose. When I originally stated my post history and mannerisms, you do realize it had nothing to do with clearing my name with the audience, but only specifically with you. It seems lost to you, that you have some implicit authority. You quote "leader" as if it were untrue or I made a sarcastic comment. I removed the video since you believe it's a poor attempt. You got to realize that people care if your opinion tends to be critical.

I don't think answering your questions makes you a better player. Answering you only served to clarify your issues with my thought process and how I could have or should have demonstrated examples in the video. I can see from the replies that some of the same issues would probably have been brought up by my target audience without your cynicism added in. Just look at how I replied to erdraug. Mentioning my post history was relevant since you can see I take a cautious and moderate tone with my replies.

Engaging this dialog has derailed the entire thread. It's become so far off, it would be impossible to get an impartial opinion. You've put much of your personal opinion on the table. You imply somethings were chalked up to luck and you've repeatedly knocked this tutorial attempt with a similarly sarcastic tone. You've thanked me in answering your questions, while still knocking me down for a poor presentation and not making things easy to understand. I still didn't disagree that I could have done a better job or else I wouldn't have removed the video so long ago. You could have said this in a few sentences. You could have taken this to PM without having to derail the conversation. I was able to sum up the entire thread as snippets a few posts above.

You know as a community, people generally support each other when you get knocked down and celebrate with each other when you have success. This is the first time I've seen a community where a veteran contributor got totally knocked down by the leader.

Your last comment shows where the direction of the thread has gone. I'm surprised you would take such a critical stance with your future girlfriend, wife or friend. No one owes me anything here and even though I'm the contributor, I still make a cautiously moderate reply with people who're looking to improve. I'm probably never going to meet the majority of people reading this thread, but I still make an attempt at developing a relationship with the community via some tutorials.

I'm obviously not making video tutorials up to your standards. Now that you've asked to screen my tutorials or else face your criticisms, I'd rather not go through such policing by you just to throw up a contribution. Nice deal there, you're not really giving me any leeway.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

AZU:
I enjoy watching your vids. Why not just go independent like Leonard McKoy? Then those who want to be part of it, can, and those who don't, don't have to.

To everyone else:
Regardless of how much benefit is derived from these tutorials, the least we could do is judge them with consideration to the spirit with which they are given. Why not ask a guy what he meant by xyz, instead of making a public mockery of how he didn't represent his point?

(and yes Azu, you could do a better job of adding transparency to you tutorials. Or, if you wish to evoke thought, reasoning, and puzzle solving, then post up the vids under the premise of mental exercises, rather than straight forward tutorials.)

All that being said, I always enjoy a good vid or two, regardless of wether I learn anything or not And I always appreciate a good contribution. I realize these things don't make themselves, so thanks for taking the time and energy out of your schedule to undertake these projects (whatever the motivation might be.)

And start a blog

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Ok, so this is what I see so far (not that my two cents matter to anybody but hey, they matter to me and that's all that matters )

You got one guy who puts up a video that was less than great but at least tried to reach out and get some VF talk going (thanks Azusabo, I love when I come to VFDC and see people still playing the game and still talking about VF).

You got another guy who finds the vid inaccurate in what it's trying to teach.

Then you got another guy who comes in as a mediator and then turns into an instigator (wtf? XD )

Mix them all up and this thread has turned into shit soup.
The vid's "lessons" had a lot of holes in them, according to Myke and few others, but given that that Myke and Azusabo have a less-than-stellar history, that kind of adds a bit of drama to what coulda just been:

A) guy offering a vid and a few things to learn from it
and
B) guy who doesn't agree with what the o.p. said about the vid

I've put up vids in the past (nowhere near as good) but I've received criticism and appreciated it. But, I'm kinda weird, I prefer that people be real with me instead of being fucking nice. If my breath fucking stinks, fucking tell me. Don't let me be walking around all day with bad breath. Offer me a gum or something... but that's just me.

Yeah, maybe Myke wasn't the "nicest" in how he expressed his views on the vid, but, come on, why so sensitive?
Aren't we all grown men here? Let's harden the fuck up
Azusabo you say you "detect" the sarcasm and cynicism and I'm guessing it's because of the history between you two but at what point does that bullshit get dropped?
It's 2010, move on man, maybe (just maybe) Myke isn't being sarcastic and cynical.
And let's say that Myke is being sarcastic and cynical, as fucked up as that is, why feed into it? Put Myke on ignore or something, lmao.
Maybe one day Myke will "drop it" (although it sounds to me like he already has) but maybe it's you that's holding on to that old, played-out drama.

Seriously, I'm not taking any sides here, Azusabo: thanks for the vids, please keep them coming.
Myke, I don't want to tell you what to do on your own fucking site (lol) but maybe Azusabo doesn't want "public" critique from you. It makes him feel bad.
Maybe a PM woulda been best?

I don't know, like I said earlier: too much sensitivity going on

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

it works on ME MYKE! for sure!

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

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I don't know where you get off telling me that if I cared about the community, I would leave the video up and care less about what you think. I understand it's your opinion, but you're basically telling me how I should feel. This isn't the first time I've told you that you seem to be picking at me for no apparent reason.

I can easily turn the tables and say that if you truly cared about developing a useful dialog here you would have posted your review sans all the sarcastic comments. A couple replies above you admit to being cynical and that you forgot to offer clearer thanks for the video. If you believe your own reply, it shouldn't be lost to you that I felt pretty offended by your review. You sound like you're trying to take the high road in your most recent reply by saying let's just focus on the content of the video.

You were able to summarize your thoughts in a couple of sentences when you wanted to. In your own words "[That] wasn't so hard was it?" In this entire conversation, I hope you notice that I haven't disagreed with a single comment you made about my tutorial presentation or that it was hard to follow my thought process. You continue to drive these points home and I continue to tell you that I get it while trying to answer your questions.

It would be great if you took the PM route. I sent you a PM after your first reply asking you to give me a break. I never wanted to see the thread trashed with our opinions being thrown around.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

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The answer to your first question is yes, Lau can sabaki Wolf's P at +8.

The answer to your second question has two sides.

Using P to force clash is a possible defensive option for someone at -8. Clash is a simple way of escaping all throws without having to guess the direction of your opponents grab. I suggest not abusing abare 2p, since I view 2p as a crutch for developing players. The animation for 2p beating throws and attacks is quick and it's easy not to be aware of what your opponent is trying to do. I know with experience some can use 2p and still watch arms stretch out from a throw attempt or the start of an attack animation. In the heat of battle, it's easy to miss information about what you just defeated with 2p. I was hoping to help players evolve into defeating what the opponent is trying to do instead of possibly using 2p without really understanding what their opponent is trying. The animation for clash is easy to digest.

Sabaki with Lau is a simple answer to beating people who use abare P to clash. A successful Sabaki also leads to 70 points damage and shenanigans that can lead to a back stagger. I'm not saying you shouldn't use a big attack if you expect abare attack. Sabaki is just a choice, among others, to take away P clashing.

A similar -8 situation arises with Akira who is left at -8 after SDE is guarded. Some Akira's abare with p and some Akira's use 2p. If Akira mixes in abare P with ETEG, I'm left trying to delay an attack to beat the dodge since I hesitate over getting my immediate attack dodged. In this case, sometimes I end up guarding the P and giving the advantage back to Akira. If I choose to grab at +8, clashing allows my opponent to tell if I have a tendency to throw without resorting to ETEG right away and having to lose damage if they guess the wrong grab direction. The same is true for Wolf being put in -8 after regret discharge is guarded.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

Thank you for comprehensive answer. However, Ive been hesitant myself for using other attacks than low punch for abare in heavy disadvantage, simply because on paper low punch beats more options, high attacks in addition to high throws. I see the benefits of the punch however. If youre playing a hesitant opponent you get advantage if highpunch is blocked, as opposed to another disadvantage on blocked low punch. I have to think on this.

Personally I place more emphasis on abare in fuzzy guardable situation because knowledgeable opponents might try to delay attacks/throws in that case to beat fuzzy, and abare opens up a lot of options there. Also because you can use elbowspeed attacks to beat immediate throw.

Also: its possible to make sabakis work in heavy advantage by delaying them. This has always been a problem with Akiras ++. You practically always have to delay it in order to catch those jabs. Eventhough delay may not be needed in this case.

 

Re: Some pointers for fighting against Wolf

I think the reason why Azu would use sabaki at +8 because a lot of Wolf player abare after "Take That". The distance and the entire animation doesn't make wolf looks like he has -8.

Btw Azu, any video update??