Soul Calibur V announced

Not only do throw beats attacks if you break throw you take chip or have your ass put on the ground. That just silly. Also the match I put up was just the highest ranking online players not tourney or top tourney players. I believe it was low lvl imo.

 

I really wished they added that to Final showdown(and kept the success evade animation). I love visual cues in games (like the new circles don't go though players anymore).

 

I've not really watched any high level vids and i'm not familiar enough with the game to help you out Myke.

After reading your thoughts on past SC games and other fighting game series, I get the impression you won't like it much. A lot of the BS from older games is still there, i'm not terribly fond of the game myself but it is an entertaining distraction

 

It's a contrivance on both ends. On the one hand, if a striking attack is about to land, then yeah it looks pretty weird for a throw to beat it. However, if a character is just starting an attack, it makes more sense for a throw to win.

 

Check this video out below of the host guy interviewing Shen Yuan, who's apparently one of the top SC players from Singapore. He played a few matches online against Japanese competition and was on display. The host actually participates in a few matches as well, but he's not as good as Shen Yuan of course.



Kruza

 

Haven't had a chance to try V yet, but from every "Soul" game so far, I'd say:

"Attacks beat throws' puny range, low damage potential and ability to be negated through regular mashing of A/B".

Those weapons add a hefty chunk of reach, after all - and you can't combo from or into most throws. Also, there are guard crushes (your mileage may vary, depending on the SC in question).

 

That would render throws in VF useless since high level players would be able to read throw animations.

 

I think that it's kind of strange that throws are even in Soul Calibur, at least in the conventional sense. If I'm holding a zanbatou or something I don't think I'd be reaching out to grab an opponent.

 

I don't think its about the throws and the attacks. I think that this is a response to a deeper imbalance in the SC system.

Compared to VF, and even DOA, SoulCalibur has a different relationship between the time it takes to duck and the time it takes to execute at high throw. There are lots of times when I think I connected a throw, my character has started the throw animation and the opponent is still standing, but my opponent still has time to duck the throw.

With that in mind its not about throws beating attacks, its more like, Throws beat Standing, Ducking beats throws, mids(normally B commands) beat ducking, side-stepping beats mids, and standing A beats stepping. At least that's what it feels like to me, an admittedly low-level player.

The problem is the that SoulCalibur has all sorts of other crap that doesn't fit it the rotation. Unblockable attacks, guard breaks, B-mids that track extremely well and are difficult to side step, horizontal attacks that land mid, projectiles and now, super-moves and rage meters. Not to mention the most basic difference, Some players have much longer reach then others.

If player A can threaten player B with and attack but player B can't threaten player A, then that is a imbalance that has to be solved. I think a system so varied is just bound to have a tier-groups and imbalance at high levels.

But it makes for great fun, if you don't demand VF styled perfection.

 

There's nothing wrong with having more reach than your opponent. It makes up for it when the character with the shorter weapon gets in, and the player with the long weapon can't hang with the shorter weapons speed. There are a lot of defensive options as well to get around it.

After seeing some vids, the graphics really pulled me in, which is suprising since Namco games look good in pics but the animation is straight out of the PS1 era of 3d. The only problem is I'm pretty busy and decided to go hard in XIII until FS drops.

No doubt I'll be getting this later in the year after a price drop and trade-in(UMvC3, which is the last Capcom product I'm ever buying for a looooong while).

 

Well tbh VF is like the only fighting game where throws don't beat attacks and even in VF5 we have throw clash.. I hate it as well. Its great to have the good oldschool attacks beat throws FS here soon.

Its not like theres many choices for FGs apart from Namco and capcom, and both put stuff in their games I have a hard time accepting.

 

There are throws and sweeps in the original kendo (I think abolished these days, but not because of ineffectiveness). You don't "reach out" to do them, but use them opportunistically when you find yourself close to the opponent, like in clinch.



The sparring is at around 3m mark.

 

Throws are more powerful in VF anyways so arguing about it seems pretty mute. They are different games. I'm no Soulcal expert but trying to learn the game and you have to remember that this is pretty much a long range fightinggame most of the time. Throws are also 50/50's and you can hold guard and mash a or b to escape one also. There are also like 3 break windows and if one is ducked you will get launched. Throws are just fine imo for what they are and if you complain that they're to good cause they win against attacks (?) I think they need to be. I mean someone just mashing a string with BB will autobreak your throw anyways and you have delayed strings etc which you can't get grabbed out of (?) anyways. Trying to constantly throw in this game against an aggressive opponent is suicide and against a good opponent pretty low payoff (if they break on reaction).

 

Not so... Lemme think off the top which games throws didn't beat attacks:

Tobal 1 & 2
Any Samsho (I believe Samsho Sen still qualifies)
Kakuto Chojin (yep I said it... and it was dope, too!!!)
KOF
DOA (I've never seen a throw beat an attack online or offline, unless of course it was a counter that lead to a throw)
Soul Edge/Blade
I wanna say throws in SC1 were beatable by attacks like 90-95% of the time
Killer Instinct-- oh wait they didn't have throws til KI2
Melty Blood
Battle Fantasia
Last Bronx
etc
etc

The list keeps going on... Anyway, I think for most of those games with throws beating attacks just need a slight frame change and it should balance itself out... I mean throws in some of those games are technically slow, but when they come out, its almost as instant as a P,K combo. Like in Tekken 5, I remember some characters had 8f jabs, and 10f jabs, and I believe throws were either 10f or 13f. Either way, assuming it was 13f (because that number keeps jumping at me), that's still enough reason for an 8f jab to beat it out... Same with T6, where everybody's jab got dropped to 10f, and I think Ganryu's still stayed at 13f (he was only fun in TTT anyway).

If throws in SC are actually slower than an A,A or 2A, but still manage to beat it out, either the throws just have too much priority, or the person playing didn't execute that faster move fast enough... There are plenty of cases in which the latter is the case, especially if your fighting online, in which case you really can't get mad about it imo...

 

My friend, I'm constantly online playing all kinds of games. In fact VF is the only fighting game that I play that is not online. Currently you can find me playing the following fighting games online:

SCV
Tekken 6
Fight Night Champion
UFC 2010
Deadliest Warrior Legends

And I can talk formally about any of them
Its not my fault Sega is just now releasing VF5FS for PS3 online.

I do have a general question though.

Whatever happened to just playing the game for fun? We do so much analysis on this site until we analyze the fun right out of the game.[/size]

Soul Calibur is a beatiful, fun game, with lots customization, and new ideas for the series. The character designs are interesting, the stage designs are very nice IMO, the music is great, the fighting mechanic is crazy and fun. No its not VF, if you want VF balance and mechanics then stick with VF.

But SC is accessible and just plain ole fun (whats wrong with dat) B4 the the superbowl started Sunday, I had a whole bunch of family and friends at my house and we had a blast playing SC for hours. Some ppl were gamers, others weren't, some ppl had SC experience others didn't, but the game was just fun. No frame counting, no combo optimization under a curve, No accountant's analysis of who, what, and where has what advantage, or disadvantage based on next action taken, or on the guess of next action taken. It was pick up the sticks/pads
and just mash LOL. Mash, mash, mash and then maybe a little spam in between the mashing.

Sometimes, we analyze shit to much. SC has top level players like every other fighting game. Techniques that are important for those players are not necessarily the same as the ones that are important for top level VF play. Can't we just accept that. We don't have anything like Critical Edge (CE) or Brave Edge (BE) or a power meter, so all bets are off.

Akai is in the right ball park. Just enjoy the game for what it is. Don't get to analytical until you've been part of that SC community for a year or so and you know what that gaming culture is all about, your analysis will most likely be misguided. All though some of names of techniques are the same, SC uses them in different ways, with different emphasis, and with different outcomes.

As all of you know, I've been around a long time playing fighting games, One thing I've learned you can't judge the game as an outsider, and TBH it takes a considerable time to really become an insider for any particular fighting game.

SC is very nice, I have some criticisms (but no game is perfect). I highly recommend it to all you cats, its entertaining, accesible but deep at the same time, awesome graphics, awesome stages, Excellent online features. AFAIC it rivals UFC and EA's FNC both which have top of the line ONLINE features. The customization features are almost the best I've seen in a fighting game.

So Why don't you cats, dispense with the deep analysis of SC5 (unless you're a long time SC serious player) and go have some Fun, Hell, last night I got a chance to watch the Hulk and a ninja fight at night in the rain on what appeared to be a Pirate boat in SC5. Only in SC can you see some shit like that

SC=fun! Its that simple, I'm willing to bet SC5 will sell millions of copies

 

Attacks ALWAYS beat throws in DOA (unless it's a catch throw/offensive hold).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wanna say throws in SC1 were beatable by attacks like 90-95% of the time</div></div>Throws beat attacks in SC1. However, throws were also linear.