Soul Calibur V announced

I've never understood this logic, if a game looks shit why should I waste my time playing it just to give myself some kind of false entitlement to my opinion?

Though you will get the odd pleasant surprise with video games, more often than not if a game looks shit from the outset (especially when you've had past experience with a game now in it's 6th iteration), then you'll walk out with that exact same opinion but will have wasted tons of hours to have some kind of right to an opinion?

Take AIDS for example, that's some nasty stuff. I don't know all the ins and outs of the disease because i've never had to deal with it. From the little I do know though, i'm 100% sure that I never want to contract AIDS or have anyone close to me suffer from it, are you telling me that opinion is wrong because i'm merely an outsider and can't form an accurate opinion without suffering or having to deal with AIDS?

 

Myke,

I think, being a scrub at this game, that D. Cole hit the nail on the head, as far as how the system seems to function to me. It's not as structured in the way VF is at all. VF4 & 5 really moved towards balancing the game by giving everyone the same kinds of tools to apply in mC situations, 14 frame highs are the best example I can think of, or 17 frame knees (to go along with this, many powerful attacks leave you standing exactly -14 or standing/crouching at -17)

in SC so much hard hitting stuff is invulnerable to mC, & there aren't set ideas about quick tools that necessarily carry over to all characters (while I haven't poured over all frame data, but from what I can tell it's not nearly as universal as VF). For example the character I use, Siegfried, doesn't have a quick AA like a lot of characters, his is 18 frames. Patroklos' A is 12, Natsu's is 10, ZWEI's is 13 etc... Siegfried's K is 13, but it just nets him +2. He has a 10 frame attack from stance, but you've gotta be in stance (no guarding), although that stance does start with a sidestep, and if you Brave Edge that attack (K, A+B+K) they're launched. I think in this game, you're better off thinking about what they're about to do & how to get out of the way & punish heavily than thinking in the more linear terms of VF. This game is MUCH more 3D than VF, you can get to side/back very easily, and everyone has many commands that are only possible during 8 way run.

It kinda reminds me of when I first saw FS vids and people werent' going for mC throws, but instead delaying a little to catch a whiffed evade etc, looking at countering the oppt's defensive response, rather than going for guaranteed mC damage. if they're gonna step use an A, if they're gonna abare interrupt etc

From what I can tell, all this goes out the window if you can use Just Guard

One thing I've noticed is that even though it's early, the average player online is actually pretty good at playing this game properly? IE the answer to unblockables is to step, and most people that I would call beginners/mid level do it, most people duck throws, like Darius said (which not many new players in VF do, and in this game you've gotta be holding G to duck), most people use BE and CE well, they space and move well, RO well. I'd say these people would be really good at VF if they'd give it a chance.

anyway, definitely not VF at all, you won't have any fun trying to think of this game on those terms... there's no flying, teleporting, breathing fire etc in VF haha! game is wild, but fun for now

 

^yessss everything this gentleman said. i agree wholeheartedly.

 

Akiralove where are you finding the frames of execution for moves because I'd love to know what siggy's close range options are.

 

Can someone tell JCBlack that SC5 is available now? They are perfect match.

 

I got the FuturePress book, it's $25 and it's amazing, if you go to avoidingthepuddle Aris reviews it. It's not as complete framewise as the VF books from Japan we're used to, but it has exe, hit (says most attacks in game are same on hit & counter hit), guard data. Made by the same people who made the Dark Souls book. If you wanna know any frame data ask & I'll put 'em up

book explains a LOT of stuff about the game, I've barely begun to read it

 

From what I've tried of the AI in VS mode it seems possibly even better than VF5 or 4Evo's. It does something I've never seen from an AI and that's consistently apply wakeup pressure on you after a knockdown. VF's never did that.

I never tried VF online but compared to every other 3d fighter this seems to work the best by far. I was able to react to lows and break throws. The practice mode is also possibly the best I've ever seen. It's complicated though so I'll have to figure out all the features and see how it compares to VF4Evo's.

Hopefully these qualities will carry over to TTT2 and all future Namco titles.

 

@Feck, somehow I imagined you to be smarter than this post. At least from my past interactions with you, your logic was a little clearer. Let me clear some things up for you.

1) How a game looks to an outsider, has absolutely no bearing on the quality of the game. Keep in mind, many,many,many! ppl who see Virtua Fighter as outsiders, say it looks like shit, its plastic, its looks boring, etc. Obviously those folks are making an uninformed opinion.

2) Namco is in their "six iteration" of a very successful game, with millions of dollars more in sales than VF has, with a player community many factors the size of the VF community. There must be something to looking like shit because 10 million flies can't be wrong.


3) You simply cannot know the deepness or strategic/tactical value of a fighting game simply from looking at it, or picking it up once or twice. Especially games like SC,VF, DOA,etc. You would lack the proper vernacular, idioms,
perspective,idiosyncrasies, ethnotricities that evolve over years by that paricular gaming community to even voice a meaningful objection to the game. So (if you're an outsider) your assessment is simply invalid , its impossible for it to be valid because you lack the paradigm and situated context in which to make any kind of legitimate judgment of the game.

4) To make the analogy between Aids and Soul Calibur 5 is perhaps the most fallacious analogy I've heard in many decades. Outside of just the mere insensitivity of the comparison. One is a disease/virus that has been empirically shown to be deadly, life threathing, and/or with horrible impacts on the quality of life. The reality of Aids its not subjective its based on scientific fact and a medical body of knowledge. Of course you don't need to be an insider to know that you don't
want to contract AIDS. We can reason by appeal to scientific fact, medical fact, empirical evidence, and anectdotal evidence of most of us know some one or of some one who had and died from AIDS. On the other hand we Soul Calibur 5 the game. Where the fun, the beauty, and depth of the game is stictly and demonstrably in the eye-of-the-beholder. In other words, its totally subjective of whether you would find SC5 fun or not, challenging or not, deep or not. Totally subjective And regardless to whether you found it fun or not, you cannot contract and then die from Soul Calibur 5. It is not a virus, it does not attack the human immune system, etc.

Feck, what an outrageous analogy, to try to defend the indefensible. Of course you can't determine the quality of a fighting game simply by looking at it. Even if the judgement in the end is your own opinion. There are of course informed opinions, and uninformed opinions. Now, if you are willing to concede that in your uninformed opinion SC5 is shit then you're more than welcome to (but we will consider the source[/size]). But an informed opinion especially with respect to a fighting game is going to come from some pretty serious hands on with the game and that gaming community. Yes sometime with that gaming community. Why? Because if you don't know, or can't see the immediate value, advantage, or disadvantage of some game feature, you need someone from that gaming community to explain it to you.

In its own way,the Soul Calibur series is every bit as deep and challenging and rewarding as the Virtua Fighter series (This is my informed opinion) I have been internal to both communities for over a decade. Balance means different things within the context of different fighting games. And to trully appreciate the different notions of balance within the various fighting games requires that you play the game with some considerable longevity and focus.

Feck, some of your posts reveal you to be a thoughtful person, but this criticism of SC5 is uncharacteristic of you.

And once again, this kind of criticism from ignorance of a well respected fighting game (in the long haul[/size]) turns some VF players off to this site.

In the early days of forums ppl would get on say something stupid, use profanity, just because of the freedom of it all and the anonymity enjoyed. But today ppl are far more discriminating in which forums they frequent. They are looking for value, worthwile exchange, etc. You comparing SC5 to HIV just doesn't get us there You comparring being an outsider to HIV to being an outsider of SC5 Community also does not get us there.

If you think SC5 is shit, then try to convey that idea from an insider's perspective. Use the vocabulary, idiom, idiosyncrasy, vernacular and cultural perspective of those who play the game but in terms that the VF community can understand. Now that would be useful. But to just pronounce the game is shit because it looks like shit, Keep that in your PM blather.

 

I like SCV po, it doesn't touch VF imo but i'm still having fun with it. I found a few things in your last post to be total nonsense, like implying the VF community shits on every fighting game simply because they're not VF.

We've all seen and played enough of SC to know if we like or dislike the series, saying that we have no right to judge the game because we're outsiders sounded like the ramblings of a lunatic to me.

 

First, Feck, I implied nothing of the sort. I did explicitly and implicitly say that you can't talk about SC on VF terms.

Second, "We've all seen" There is no "We've all seen" There are a little over 12,000 registered users on this site, and I have no idea how many unregistered regulars we have, not to count how many new 'Just looking" people we get every day. The "We've all seen" only has meaning if this was some kind of closed exclusive club, but its not, its a public site, with all kinds-of passers by. So if you're really being fair, you'll acknowledge that you criticism of SC was broad brushed and sloppy to say the least

 

po pls go

 

No Maam.....

 

Master Po,

Fecks comparison between SC5 and HIV was obviously what french ppl would call a Godwin Point, most ppl don't even bother reply to that. Anyway, you developped your though with accuracy, gg.

Now from what I heard I guess there are 3 categories of SC players.

1) Those (casuals I guess) who were expecting a great solo game. Some kind of Final Fantasy game with a fighting game system.
Those were obviously deceived.

2) Those who liked the whole Soul Calibur series in a competitive way and were expecting Namco to keep the routine of increasing only minor things like graphics, character animation and such stuff by keeping the gameplay mechanics. Those were deceived too although they agree with the first category that removing the Jedis was a must do.

3) Those who were deceived by SC3 but dealt with it, then deceived by SC4 eventually stopped to play the game (like myself) for those, SC5 brings something completely new to the game and is worth trying the new game system. I believe improving/changing the way to play was a good idea although I am a little bit surprised SC got inspired a lot by 2D games like Street Fighter or KoF but whatever, I have to try it.


Now I guess the main problem isn't that the scenario lost depth but how Namco did things. It seems the synopsis isn't finished as it lacks text explaining each character issues. The fact that there isn't a story mode for each character, rather a unique story mode with 2 or 3 non chosable character is shocking!
Worse: Namco made promises they were unable to keep regarding the story mode, and I believe it is the most serious matter for the Soul Calibur community. It's like all they said before was a lie.

So I have nothing more to say about the game itself yet, but I believe it would have been better if Namco kept the project secret until the end and made no story mode at all rather than an aborted one.
M.

 

That'd be ok if I ever criticised the game Po

 

@Feck This all sounds like criticism to me....

Perhaps your opinion has changed about the game, now that you've had a few days to play it You know, there's nothing wrong with really enjoying another fighting game outside of VF. Its okay... I won't hold it against you.

IMO VF has to fight to stay #1. SC5 just raised the bar on a lot of stuff for 3d fighters (as far as the fun element goes)

SC Online Lobby with split screen possibility chat and headset
with the ability to look at the License of all players in the room. Nice!

SC Colosseo Mode. Nice!

Automatic saving of Last 8 replays with options to permanently save or convert to movie for youtube. Nice!

Their whole concept of Ranks, Titles, and Level Nice!

The exotic stages kicks VF's @##. The stage designs are beautiful.

The customization is FN off the hook.

The Critical Edge Animations Nice!

The Quick Battle Feature and being able to take titles of the AI Nice!

I've said for years VF is the best fighter on the planet. But... It has to do something to stay that way. IMO SC5 and UFC 3 have raised the bar for all fighters everywhere (in terms of best/most bang for the buck). Rumor is DOA 5 is going kick ass too (but that's still a rumor) I hope VF5FS on consoles really brings its or else it could get voted off the island.

 

Po, at least feck said something about gameplay (BS). You have avoided the topic completely...what does the game play like? thats what counts for me, so do give a rundown of the gameplay if you will.

 

Well, the first post was responding to Myke. From what i've read about his feelings towards SC in the past, I just got the impression his feelings would be the same for this one. I don't have to adore a game to enjoy it either, there is some bullshit in there but i'm still having fun with it.

That other post you gloriously combined with with a totally unrelated post of mine was just total nonsense aimed at your inane ramblings and was written from the perspective of someone who never liked the series. Nice job on missing my earlier posts where I first picked up the game and it was obvious I was having fun with it, happy trolling Po.

Random question but is the SC scene pretty big over in France? I'm still having bad luck finding decent players online but the majority of French players that i've came across seem to know what they're doing.

 

They seem to have a good "ambassador" in Kayane ^_^

WC Maxi seemed to be a similar figure for the North American community many years ago in the early days of Soul Calibur ^_^

 

I thought SC1 and 2 were cool but I was too busy being bad at VF4 to try them out back in the day. Should I get this? I like big hits and damaging throws.

 

@Feck I apologize for mis-reading your posts, which caused me to consequently criticize you for a position that you did not take on SC5.

But recall, I did post that I thought you were smarter than what I was reading and that you are usually more logical
So it wasn't all about bashing Feck.

@Matteo

Although I praise the game , I am pissed that they removed major fighting styles (i.e. Talim, Zasalamel, Yun Seong, Seon Mina,etc), and they reduced the movesets for many of the characters.

The gameplay has a faster feel to it. Not because the characters move faster, but because the new Brave Edge (BE) and Critcial Edge (CE) moves has the potential to end a round a lot quicker, or bring the health bar to almost zero depending on context.

The addition of the side step (which we already had in VF) add s a whole new set of strategies for offense and defense as you know. One would think that the 8way run already had that covered,but the quick tap gives the character just enough extra speed to change game play on offense and defense.

The entire sections removed from movelists For examples Mitsurugi's Relic Stance, dumbed down the game in my opinion. It would be one thing, if they merged Relic with something else or if they replaced it with some other stance, but just to remove it wholesale? Its the equivalent of removing Lei Fei's HaiShiki, NehanShiki, or his Bokutai stances and simply not replacing them with anything. For newcomers this may make the game play easier, but for long time players cutting movelists hurt gameplay (at least it did for me)

I for one don't like having to be aware of my power up meter, and my opponent's power up meter, while in the heat of battle, I just want to attack and defend based on my opponent's attacks or defense. Now I have to worry about is my opponent specifically trying to make me fill up his power up meter, so that he end it all with a simple combo. This makes the gameplay a little more like a street fighter, or any of the games that have that concept of a 'Super Move' Although the animations for them are awesome, they take the gameplay in a totally negative direction (AFAIC)

The Critical Finish, which could end a round in one blow that was available in SCIV has been removed. But that was no big deal, I never (I mean never saw it pulled off in a competitive match between intermediate or advanced players. Only between noobs messing around. On the other hand the BE and CE are pulled off constantly, I see the CE in almost every match and I see the BE in almost every round. So the game play moves along at a faster clip.

I'm not going to get in to the throw nerfing controversy, I'll just say balance has changed regarding throws, with CE and BE they dont take on the significance they once had one way or the other.

The addition of side step, CE,BE, and change of Guard Impacts, make the game less deep in some ways and more deep in other ways. Removal of major sections of movelists was definitely negative.

I can say this, that the fight even an intense one in Virtua Fighter feels like a chess match. Where an intense fight in Soul Calibur feels like and looks like two characters going to war. Soul Calibur matches look and feel more violent(2 me) than VF matches. Sure Vanessa, Jeffrey and on occasion Wolf have some pretty nasty looking moves, but on balance VF feels like a very high level martial arts tournament where the players are playing for points. On the other hand Soul Calibur it looks and feels like somebody is getting killed Maybe its because of the weapon aspect of the game.

But TBH, I also regularly play UFC, and there are no weapons involved, UFC gameplay looks and feels like violence is taking place. I rarely get that from VF. Maybe its just me. VF seems like its far more strategic and tactical, SC seems like there's more violence and revenge. VF seems to give more of an intellectual reward, SC seems to give more of an emotional reward.

I've watched spectators watching a VF match the only time I've ever seen spectator's cringe is when the spectator is a high level player. On the other hand, I recently watched spectators of a SC match and I saw all kinds of cringing, grimmacing, holding of the crouch Maybe its how brutal some of the characters already look, Nightmare, Astaroth,the Edge Master. Even Ivy can look like a real bitch. Conversely
VF Fighters are pretty clean. It almost seems like there are no bad guys in VF. Sarah, Pai, AOI are civilized. Vanessa has
a wee bit of an attitude, but nothing like that little evil-looking-eyes-glowing chick in SC.

@Matteo I include all of this in my comments a bout game play,
sure frame counts, position advantage changes, position disadvantage changes, Tech Rolls, ETEG possibilities, character balance are important too, But that's a necessary but not sufficient paradigm to describe SC.

In Soul Calibur its also important that the bad guys look, sound , and wield the bad weapons. The weapon is a part of the fight just like the character. In fact, SC has elevated weapons to the level of characters in the game. Soul Calibur can at times look and sound ferocious, that's never the case in VF. But likewise you don't get the feel of Masters in SC. Watching high level play between say AKira and Goh, you get the feel that two masters are at work and you appreciate the excellence. With the exception of Raphael,Qingua (maybe Ivy), everything in SC has almost a brute force , rushdown feel to it. VF gives you finesse. SC give you blunt force trauma.

All that to say, I don't think you could practically separate the game mechanics, from the look and feel of Character Animations when you are describing gameplay for SC. They go hand in hand. That's not the case with VF. The characters in VF could have the stick man look, and the VF challenge would still remain the VF challenge

But on February 14th, I'm droppin SC and VF, and its gonna be on with some UFC 3. Which is in my top two of fighting games of all times


Once again I'm sorry and I apologize Feck for the mixup....

And yes France has a monster size Soul Calibur Community, and Kayane is the real deal. But I hear Germany and London are not far behind.