Tekken 7 in pre-production

Pretty much all of this. There are so many characters in T6 that I can't remember how to defend against anybody. I guess I've just been playing VF for so long that I can remember everyone's moves ('cept throws), but I don't have that problem with any other fighting games.

 

I'm not saying the game is to hard to learn, I'm just saying there is way more shit to learn / memorize what ever the hell you want to call it. Like Emerald Wolf said there is just way to many stings.

I guess I feel this way because I'm in my 30's and not in my teens or 20's anymore. In those days I had much more time to spare so putting in the long haul for learning a game wasn't really a big deal. Now in the present day time is so precious I just can't afford to devote 30-40 hours a week to learning something like Tekken.

Seriously though if the game dropped half the roster it wouldn't be so bad. VF has strings, but none of them are crazy like Tekken or any other game. All VF strings are pretty damn straight forward and easily punishable. There are very few that are abusable and for the ones that are they are like what 2-3 hit strings?????

@ Jide... Well said! yeah I'm just bitching for the sake of bitching

 

Learning game mechanics is one thing but having to do that and having to memorize more than a trillion moves and frames is just ridiculous. If Virtua fighter had that many characters I would of not even wasted my time learning frames.

 

tekken feels chaotic to me with it's amount of moves + characters. Too me it also feels like the move sets are not as clearly defined as in VF. I've told some people before that to me VF feels pretty digital, a lot of questions can be answered by a yes or no answer if you know the system well. Tekken feels much more analog, a lot of stuff is situational which would be fine if there weren't SOOOOOO MANY characters and SOOOOOO MANY moves.

I could be wrong about this but that was my experience.

 

It's not too bad honestly... I learn as I play, plus its easier to me to look at the strings in Tekken and see what gives + or - frames... Some of the characters didn't get a bunch of new strings, most of those strings just got reanimated (properties stayed the same for most) and they'll get a few new moves but not strings...

I do understand how there's too many characters. I felt like that with SC4. But Tekken's system is so easy to see and adapt to... They made moves more distinguishable (i.e.- anti ss moves have a white trail, certain block animations show which moves give lots of + frames, etc) and no matter how many moves Kazuya might have, you should theoretically be able to fight against him even if you don't know to duck his ewgf and punish.

Its funny how people say that VF is too hard to learn/play, then they go and play Tekken, which has one extra button, more strings, more stun types, more ways to combo, 33 more characters, and some of the same plus other tactics and systems in that game (wavedashing, tech traps, fuzzy guard, chickening, option select, jabs being 10f vice 8f, thus changing frames in other moves and how they work, universal low parries, hidden moves, etc). It looks easier just by looking at it, but there are tons of things in that game that people might not be But somehow it seems "easier"... Is it all in the mind??? I think so... It's just easier to win in Tekken without having to know which way to ss or worry about open/closed foot combos. Half the time, you only need the "top 10" moves and 2 or 3 combos to play a solid character.

 

Worst trolling 2010 award goes to Tengu!

 

Err what? All basic jabs are same speed in T6BR..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Half the time, you only need the "top 10" moves and 2 or 3 combos to play a solid character. </div></div>
Thats true, but what Im irritated about is losing to 'scrubs' just because I couldnt remember whether some part of a some string hit mid or low and incidentally ate rest of the string. Im not talking about 10 strings (even though theres nearly a hundred of just those, 40 characters x 2-3 per character) Im talking about the other strings of which theres like 10 times as many.

I didnt play tekken before 6 so Im looking at this from a beginners viewpoint.

 

What frames do you need to learn?
You play Lars

Just uf+3 everything or block.

 

In the previous tekkens, all standing jabs were 8f, except for a few characters who had 10f jabs (Jin, King, Paul, and some other characters). I think Ganryu's was 12f. In Tekken 6, they changed all the 8f jabs to 10f, and Ganryu's stayed the same... Steve's jab I believe actually stayed at 8f...

 

That move is easier to ss and can be punished now... If you were talking about vanilla T6, then I'd just say screw it, and whore that move... But backdash and universal uf+4 kills his game... Just don't do that mess against Paul or AK.

 

Interesting, i thought that was the main idea behind the whole "switchnation" thing

 

You might want to research the frames of uf+3 on block..

Jinxhand: youre right in that I think Ganryu is the only one with different jabspeed now (12f) I believe all others are 10.

 

I guess I just played Tekken so much that I got the jist of whats good and not just through experience. I never looked at the frame sheet for Tekken but you know what that's probably why I lost to Hwoarang so badly way back when. I just didn't know when to attack. While there are some characters with extensive strings and setups I agree with Jinx. Find the top 10 moves for each character and whore them. The rest is just experience.

I guess I always played by feel until being beat into looking at frames due to frustration of playing the likes of Slide and other on this site. This probably lends to the idea that all those moves lend to a possibility of a more "mixup" gameplay style being implemented against the opponents lack of move recognition and ignorance. Playing this way helped in SC4 too.

My style has always been nothing but mixups and using strange shit so makes sense.

 

I was half joking about the move.

I already know its -21... Manji. I believe it was -16 in the early versions of BR.
It crushes tons of shit add it with Ragey rage!!
I even see top players miss the punishment because of the silly recovery animation.

Uf+3 is a godly move and anybody thinking it isn't is just stupid. (Of course you shouldn't rely on it as Lars has other useful stuff).

Regarding the moves and tons of strings.. if you guys played T5 DR the learning will be small because you will know most of it (Strings etc..) Just like VF is easy for you guys because already know the strings etc..

Look at how daunting VF will be if they just started on 5R. But anyway most of you are just playing Tekken as a stop gap. It's either that or SSF4?

 

what i don't get is how people get good at tekken when there's so little info published about the game.

have you ever asked a tekken player about, i don't know, anything about the game? you can never get a straight answer.

how do you sidestep? "sometimes it just works. it's all hitboxes."

what moves crush low? "uh, i think that one does." (it doesn't, i rage and play something else)

in contrast, ask a vf player how throw clash works and you're signing up for a refresher course in basic algebra the next day.

i seriously can't help but wonder if the people that play this game even know what's going on sometimes. it really does seem like namco releases these games on a timetable of "people are finally going to know everything about the current tekken game around this time, so that's when we'll release the next one".

 

I'm pretty sure there are people out there who can explain Tekken to someone just like some cat here can explain VF to somebody in full detail... I don't know who gave you those responses, but there's some cats on TZ who can give good info. Hell, there's people on SRK that are the epitome of that post- you ask them a question, and its like having a blind person describe yellow- nonsense...

But it does seem that Namco isn't about perfection anymore. They balance the game because the fans ask them, but not necessarily because it needed it. I mean Baek had a bunch of bound moves in t6 vanilla that made him competitive but not broken, and he still got crazy nerfed in br by having a bunch of bound properties stripped...

Rage mode, bound moves, item moves and a bunch of other crap was thrown in this iteration of Tekken. Granted, new features is what gets the young cats interested and more money in Namco's pocket, but so far the only real complete versions of Tekken that came out were T3, TTT ver. b, and T5DR. T3 is debatable, but I think it was complete.

Namco really needs to step their game up and truly make a complete version. Granted, the Tekkens I mentioned were at least at version b or c (dr was kinda considered a whole new game though), but I mean how long is Yoshimitsu gonna suck (you can block some of his sword attacks now, WTF)??? How long is Steve gonna be busted and broke??? Where the fuck is Kunimitsu??? Namco resurrected people that Ogre "killed" except for Jun, and they don't have an answer for Kuni??? I mean if its licensing issues, then thats cool, but give us an answer...

 

After playing nothing but VF5, I picked up T6 on release to see if it would make me like Tekken again. Since I hadn't played Tekken seriously since 3, and coming off a stint of VF only, the sidestep system definitely confounded me. A lot of moves that looked like they would obviously be evade-able, strangely weren't. I just figured I was doing something wrong, or that there was something I didn't know. When I couldn't seem to find what I wanted to know, I traded in T6 for Bayonetta.

 

Namco doesn't release frame data. Either enterbrain or softbank do. Unfortunately T6BR came just as arcadia was rebirthing itself, so we got a fairly poor effort at frame data, and then softbank didn't feel the need to excel either.

Most of the frame data therefore either comes from those two sources or from the players, printed on sdtekken, tekkenzaibatsu or inatekken wiki.

As for the system, I'd say that most topics have been looked at in a fair amount of detail. Check out these two threads (one made by a VF player).

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=114449
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=111416

Actually, pretty much any of my posts in that forum are detailed responses to systems questions.

Having said which, there are things in Tekken which just aren't amenable to investigation. When people respond "sometimes it just works. it's all hitboxes." that's because it's the truth. I've sat there with my PStick and pressed u_d to sidestep on the same frame and had inconsistent results. That's why I've never written anything on the topic.

 

Ha yeah that's true but I have a limit cap of up to 5 characters

 

Regarding this: http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=111416

I wanted to know stuff like this in Tekken too! I even posted up on TZ -> T6 general strategy a few questions regarding defence and the bastards never gave me a reply!

And yeh whenever I asked Tekken players something about Tekken over the mic I can NEVER get a straight fucking answer, and something else which annoys me about this is if I ask different people the same question I get mixed results.

To me it seems as though Tekken players don't really know shit about their own game regarding mechanics and are just really good at reaction/mid-low mixup and string properties.

I'm "getting into" Tekken right now really but there's no fucking way I'm gonna slave away in practice mode learning shitty strings for the rest of my life.

3 other things which piss me off are:

Shit websites, VFDC is awesome as hell but Tekken Zaibatsu is SHIT. I repeat - SHIIIIIIIIIT!

Frame data, frame data may need to be translated from Japanese using Google Translator which makes reading it off putting. Why can't TZ just do what VFDC does and have the frame data lists at the top of the site? Damn man they haven't even done every character's frame data yet. These Tekken players are really fucking lazy, I don't see how Tekken can have such a big following but the players being so lazy. (Tekken Crash, a Korean TV show about Tekken, shows how big Tekken is as a game).

This is back on the point of the "shit websites" statement but whenever I go on TZ I cannot find ANYTHING. Where are the stickies that teach system mechanics? Why aren't there stickied threads telling noobs how to play - what to do and what not to do? Why is there nobody to go into deep theory fighter with? Why is the game shit? Why is VF so much better? Why am I even learning this game when I have VF? Why? Why? WHY!