Tekken vs VF game - be interested or diss it?

The trick is not to do a wakeup kick all the time.

Sure it's 50/50 wether they'll block high or low but when they have an option that beats both....eh, don't bother.

 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Read this, seeings as it was pretty much the basis of all my examples.

 

Fighting game are coming back so why waste time playing the bad ones. I mean what other ways do you want them to get up? I mean they can roll any direction, they can throw an attack, I mean they are there but it doesn't matter because the hit box is always on. The on top of that their are tech traps and combos that people wait for those types of things. So why do any of them when standing up and blocking is the best option. The mechanics in Tekken is to not use the mechanics and just attack. If you aren't attacking and trying to do anything that isn't a launcher then you aren't winning. Also you won't see a change in the system at this point. That would loose a fan base. The system will be the system with minor changes. Its not as deep as VF which is why it's more popular. Less time to practice and less stuff to learn.

 

Also the I never said that it wasn't true. You can still get punished for guessing wrong and against certain characters but it's all the time in Tekken! Like using just basic game mechanics like sidesteps and rolls and so on will lead to you being destroyed where in Virtua Fighter if used smartly can put you at an advantage or a disadvantage. It's all about knowing when to use them and some characters have a strong wake-up game. In Tekken ? Every character has a wake-up game because the other player only has bad options to use to get off the ground.

 

Even better, why not suggest ideas as to how to make it a better game?? If its bad, I'm pretty sure there's something that would make you play it if the issues were fixed. I mean granted, some cats just stick with one fighting game. I love fighting games, and love to play all of them. Game companies are starting to listen, so why not help the FG community as a whole grow by speaking out and not against the games.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mean what other ways do you want them to get up? I mean they can roll any direction, they can throw an attack, I mean they are there but it doesn't matter because the hit box is always on. The on top of that their are tech traps and combos that people wait for those types of things. So why do any of them when standing up and blocking is the best option. The mechanics in Tekken is to not use the mechanics and just attack. If you aren't attacking and trying to do anything that isn't a launcher then you aren't winning. Also you won't see a change in the system at this point. That would loose a fan base. The system will be the system with minor changes. Its not as deep as VF which is why it's more popular. Less time to practice and less stuff to learn.
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You can still get punished for guessing wrong and against certain characters but it's all the time in Tekken!
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I don't mean no harm, but it seems like you just simply don't know how to tech in Tekken, or the people you're playing see your patterns when you tech and attack accordingly, or you fall for more tech traps than you would care to admit. Every tech type has its use in Tekken. Top players still use the lunge kick, and the double arm cross on wake-up. The fact is they know when to use it. I could honestly see if you were griping about sidestepping vs sidewalking, but oki in Tekken isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. If you want to be invisible when you're on the ground, play a 2d fighter (except for NGBC, ABK, and MB). Even Soul Calibur has a pretty good ground game for a 3d fighter. I said before, Tekken is heavily offensive based, so its more cutthroat when it comes to fighting in general.

Think about this, in real fighting, if you're knocked on the ground, there are tons of things you can do, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're safe when getting up. You could still get kicked, punch, have something thrown on you, whateva... In Tekken, some situations will only allow the opponent to get 1 move off if you tech a certain way, or no move at all. You have to choose, but be smart when you do it. This might require knowing the matchups, seeing as some characters might have certain moves with more range, so you have to adjust accordingly... I don't know how you're not getting caught in VF, but get messed up in Tekken. You can't get juggled in VF off of a failed tech, or get Splash Mountain'd in Tekken from a failed tech, but something's not right... That simply boggles my mind...

DOA even has moves that you get hit with on the ground, and as soon as you get up, you're in position for whatever mixups the opponent has for you...

 

vvt would be the best game ever, but only if it incorporated both tekken's one button per limb system as well as open and closed stances.

 

I'm just gonna speak up and say that I hate this explanation. It's like when I complain about Call of Duty when you are being shot at and can't aim your gun properly to shoot back, and the only reply you ever get from CoD fans is "well yes, but that's realistic". Well when you counter this point of it being "realistic" by mentioning how unrealistic perks, killstreaks and a few gameplay mechanics (such as health regeneration) are it shuts them right up.

The same way you can't justify the ground game in Tekken as "being realistic" when you've got teleporting ninjas, kangaroos performing giant swings upon a mountain of other highly unrealistic elements.

I think the only time you can ever use "realism" to justify a point is in racing and flight simulators.

Personally I'm not a fan of the wake up game in Tekken, the same way I'm not a fan of the wall game in Tekken. However if Tekken was the same as VF in these aspects it just wouldn't be right. Then again though I don't like the wake up game in VF either. Always getting up at an ETEG disadvantage unless you hit someone with a rising kick or they whiff a move and you can find yourself in reset situations. I think characters such as Jacky and Vane (possibly even Brad and Lion) are too strong on oki seeings as they have mid full circulars. If you get hit by a mid full circular (by either trying to ETEG, by ducking in anticipation of a throw or by trying to use an attack such as in anticipation of a throw) you find yourself knocked back down again and the only thing these characters need to do on wakeup is mid full circular/throw with both options resetting the situation if successful.

You VF players may disagree but I really do think that mid full circular/throw is too powerful in VF.

 

Jacky's is fine. You can punish on block. Vanessa however well.. LOLVanessa's was a better move in vf4 evo.

You get flamed sometimes because your lack of experience in how VF works shows all the time. When you start getting better you'll be complaining about other shit. Trust me!
Throws are powerful in VF always have been and always will be. I know in other games there are option selects or systems where you can escape on reaction. Sometimes I do wonder if VF's throw system doesn't make it popular for people who are used to 2D

I kinda disagree with jinx with Tekken being a more aggressive game than VF. In Tekken I feel I have to be more patient and somewhat defensive/turtley. The close up game in Tekken is just too scary for me to take such risks even with a life lead. From what I see and have played anyway.

Whereas in VF the system is set up perfectly to be an aggressive or turtley player with any character.

 

Man I was only implying the simple fact that there were many options available while on the ground, but just as there are many options, not all of those options can be used safely all of the time... I was not using "reality" in a sense that saying Tekken was literally like it. It all boils down to one word, options. I'll be more "precise" in my elaborations next time... I would use a UFC game as a reference, but I don't want to summon "The Po"... I can't say rock/paper/scissors 'cause someone here's gonna be like "VF is the ultimate form of rock/paper/scissors blah blah, etc"... AGAIN, this was not said to say that Tekken was realistic... Could've used MvC2 as an example perhaps...

 

well reading all the post from the i made, there has been this discussion on how much different tekken is from virtua fighter. now there has been people like jinxhand how has been saying some really informative things about both games and i really respect that he plays multiple fighting games because not everyone here seems like they do. anyways~

i guess my post went over everyones head.., but after reading the post that followed it seems that those too guys who talked about how tekken sucks and you get punished for techrolling and all this old BS obviously havent played tekken enough to know how to play it. i know im not god like in VF, or even considered good but at least i know that your never safe on the ground. the discussion on hitboxes however, it seems that everyone understood the systems and why they look alittle weird when certain juggles go off. but i shouldn't here shit about tekken's juggle system, the bound! that is in T6, i maybe off by a version but wasn't it in VF5R had a bound feature as well? like they would bounce right up off the ground, just like in tekken. but no one wants to mention it. sure it mite not look likes tekkens but its there. and the wall juggles are very similar too.
because there are wallsplats and everything in VF5FS. and before someone says they copied from each other, im going to rule that BS out too because both development teams are close friends and they share each others idea's, this is obvious in T5 ranking system and in VF5's new bound juggles.

ok...i think i got alot down this time...and i hope i dont get completely ignored either..

 

Bound was in VF5(Vanilla). Wall splats are in VF5 too..

 

I get what you are saying about guessing wrong. I know full and well that you can get punished for that. First off DOA? Every character has a counter you have the safest options there because you can counter their move. VF? I can rely on the mechanics of the game to avoid damage by sidestepping, low crushes or sabakis. Now my Tekken knowledge is based off of someone who plays Tekken very well and you can play him on PS3. With all of those options for punishment why guess at all when the safest option is to just stand and guard? I play Soul Cal. I do like it but it's Tekken with weapons. The ground game is a bit better and you don't get juggled as much off the ground. Point is Tekken is more popular but VF is a better design of a game. If you like Tekken play Tekken. I will play Tekken X Street Fighter because it will be more Street Fighter based. I will not play the Namco version though that is more Tekken based.
So final word I wouldn't play Tekken vs VF unless it was designed by the VF team. If there is any help from Namco the game will be poop.

 

Okay now I don't like this idea now. Virtua Fighter vs Dead or Alive would be better. I have not seen a Dead or Alvie game for a while. And... this would be better because DOA as better girls.

 

I'll be honest right. I went and bought UFC 2010 and I even took the time to learn the gameplay mechanics and play a fair few online matches.

I would go as far to say that the game is actually pretty fucking bad.

Silva's single collar tie clinch transition puts him straight into muay thai clinch from where he can deliver massive knees to the head or even use a transition to sway you to the side to get a huge knee to your head. If he gets caught in the muay thai clinch himself he has a major transition to go straight from defending muay thai straight into muay thai clinch himself!

If you hold back on the right stick to reverse a clinch all that happens is that you push them away (extremely marginally) and they are still in clinching range! This means that they can actually ABUSE the clinch as at the worst case scenario all you do is push them back into clinching range. From this broken gameplay mechanic a bit more bullshit stems aswell. If you try to reverse the clinch attempts by holding back on right stick you open yourself up to head kick/clinch mixup which is deadly on both options. If you go to hit someone as they try to clinch you can hit them, but thing is if when you start hitting them all they need to do is shoot for a takedown for an instant takedown that you can't even reverse as it will catch you on the counter. Once the ground game starts it can just end there (although to be honest with you, I do quite like how the ground game works even though it can be exceptionally bullshit - especially if you get into full mount or your character can transition into salaverry) All the attacker needs to do is throw a few hits to soften you up a little bit then stall their transitions (if the player flick reversals effectively) then go for an actual transition. This is how I use the ground game online and I have to say I am pretty damn effective. Even if I do get flick reversal'd my reflexes are good enough to flick reversal them any time I see them twitch, as long as the connection is adequate. Once full mount is reached all you need to do is punch, flick, punch, flick, punch flick and you will stay in that mount position. If they do manage to transition out they are in back mount. If you flick reversal a transition from back mount, top you will get a back clinch. If you use a fighter such as Sean Sherk (who I abuse the hell out of online) from back mount he has a german suplex which completely resets the ground game.

The only things I really like about UFC is how the flick reversal system works and the stand up game is pretty good with spacing and counter attacking. Unfortunately the stand up game is pretty meaningless when all the other player has to do is clinch/takedown. If I wanted stand up game I'd probably be best off buying Fight Night 4. Although I must say that getting the KO in UFC feels pretty damn awesome. Much more gratifying then winning a round/match in VF.

Completely off topic but I've saw quite alot of UFC 2010 discussion on these forums (Po) and that's my take on why the game is shit.

EDIT:

Actually the way it works in FG's is more like this:

The first name of the game in the title dictates who made the game.

So Tekken v SF will be made by Namco whilst SF v Tekken will be made by Capcom.

Same thing with CvS. It was made by Capcom and same thing with SvC. It was made by SNK.

If T v VF was to come out and have VF mechanics the name of the game would actually be VF v T.

 

Yeah the Japanese call it bound(VF and Tekken).
It's pretty much the same concept anyway. Just a different execution.

 

You can't counter on the ground, and the characters can now get hit on the ground in DOA4 which allows setups for throws, stuns, etc...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VF? I can rely on the mechanics of the game to avoid damage by sidestepping, low crushes or sabakis. Now my Tekken knowledge is based off of someone who plays Tekken very well and you can play him on PS3. With all of those options for punishment why guess at all when the safest option is to just stand and guard?</div></div>

You can get thrown, which doesn't make it safe. Play a Feng (like me), and you're bound (no pun intended) to get swept if all you do is just stand and block. And from that point on, its training the opponent to duck, which means free df+1, or df+3+4 to oki (like 4~3) or even better, df+3 to a combo...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I play Soul Cal. I do like it but it's Tekken with weapons. The ground game is a bit better and you don't get juggled as much off the ground. Point is Tekken is more popular but VF is a better design of a game. If you like Tekken play Tekken. I will play Tekken X Street Fighter because it will be more Street Fighter based. I will not play the Namco version though that is more Tekken based.
So final word I wouldn't play Tekken vs VF unless it was designed by the VF team. If there is any help from Namco the game will be poop. </div></div>

There are so many things in SC's system that makes it totally different from Tekken aside from the fact that there are weapons. I'm surprised you didn't glorify SC as it has so many ways of getting up (even jf motions that allow you to avoid any type of damage). Unless you're fighting Algol, then you won't have to worry about getting juggled off the ground. Wait, well Setsuka can A+K~B a character and pop them off the ground, but thats only in the initial frames of a knockdown (someone check that for me please I don't wanna spit false info)...

Anyway, I'm pretty sure TxSF might not even totally play like Tekken just on the simple fact that SF is in it. SFxT doesn't play like a normal SF4 game already. There are more tech options, more moves that bounce off of walls, chain combos, etc...

 

Ok look we have gone back and forth so I'm going to make this as rock solid as possible for you so you can't nit-pick to argue a point that is very specified and doesn't look at the overall picture. Throw breaking is also a mechanic that can be used. Now don't forget about throw clashing, or the fact that low crushes usually involve being in the air which also avoids throws. You don't just get up and randomly sidestep for no reason. Also don't forget about throw clashes. Sidesteps are suppose to avoid linear attacks, but that doesn't work in Tekken, example of a game mechanic that is pointless. It should just be 2d, because the 3d aspect of the game isn't that important.So I mean quit going in circles. Don't come back and be like well if you throw break you can still get hit by attacks. It's rock paper scissor they are always suppose to be a certain defense.







I know you can't counter while on the ground but you can counter when you stand up and gain back the advantage if you counter right. Also you can tech, now most games you can get hit on the ground so that is no different. All games allow for throws and stuns. I mean what is the point you are trying to make? There is always going to be a move that can counter another? I mean you are getting away from the concept here.

SC has the same options Tekken has with the addition of Guard Impact. Now you can get juggled on the ground but only for a limited extent. The way the combo system works in that is you can't chain two moves that have the same properties together in the same combo, unless that combo is a guaranteed string on hit or counterhit, then it excutes and you are limited to how long you can make the combo. Now you do have resets with some characters but that mix up is something you have to learn.


Point being, Tekken isn't as balanced as DOA or VF

 

Tekken 6 is way more balanced than DOA 4.

 

yeah Lars is the shit.