The Virtua Fighter Realism Dilemma

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Plague, you're a graphic designer. what would you make the FS box look like?

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Characters featured would be Jean, Taka, and Akira. This fits the theme that traces back to the VF2 box art. New characters highlighted. Akira is still main bad-ass dude.

Jean and Taka faces appear large at the top and glare down at Akira. Akira has just executed a KNEE. An unidentified opponent is being floated out of the box straight at the customer. This illustrates angry emotion and says "this game is about fighting".

Jean and Taka glaring expressions = "I'm gonna get that little fucker. Thinks he's so bad-ass. He's a short middle-aged, contact-wearing hack that always gets the cover. Even his SPoD is safe on block. I'll show him."

The overall arrangement will be similar to the Evo box. That design works because the two faces and torso of Akira combine to make a connected shape. It draws attention even without details.

Box back shows fighting and CUSTOMIZATION. Maybe serious - like "you can make Akira look like Akuma".


Then all that art is gonna be used in web banners, stickers on the floor of the UFC octagon, and more.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

You guys wouldn't know good art if it struck you in the face.

Unlike me. They used to call me "the Michelangelo of Cardiff". Once I reached the highest peaks, I retired to live a quiet life in anonymity.

EDIT: In my cover, Akira is getting in touch with his feminine side: baking a cake, or knitting a warm hat for his beloved master. Enough of this violence.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

that alone would have added 500,000 units

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Now this would definitely appeal to the younger casual gamers, the customization wasn't really pushed with the VF5 game cover. Something else I would like to add is the idea of having the VF logo smaller and have have the FS logo bigger and overlap. When people hear "Virtua Fighter" they immediately think of that blocky Saturn game from 1995. Maybe another idea could be to change the Virtua Fighter to simply VF, then have Final Showdown just underneath.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

this is a much better conversation now.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

OOH! Forgot about that. Vanessa for sure.

 

The Virtua Fighter Realism Dilemma

Damn Skippy

If Plague had designed the box art for VF5 we would have probably had 1.5 to 2 million units sold, which means we'd all be playing VF5FS right now.

Plague, why don't you send Sega your portfolio (seriously)...

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Why isn't that at item anyway?

Should have a camel toe customisation.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Are the skimpy bikini's not enough for you

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Forget MMA stuff, that isn't addressing the problem which some have already mentioned. Sega the company sucks against competitiona and this has been a problem since the system before the genesis. Just look at their history, and when competition starts getting heated and look how they fold, Genesis folded mid to late in its life. Saturn folded after a couple years, Dreamcast Folded once PS2 came out, then sega as a hardware game company folded.

Sega essentially Folded to the competition of the other fighting games now. When we have a new revolution of fighting game era, Sega is no where to be seen. At least in the US. While Blazblue is making changes and quickly rolling them out, King of Fighters horrible 12th game quickly got a new release coming, Tekken rolled out tekken 5, then dark resurrection, then Tekken 6 (in which we got the later variety if I remember correctly), and now there are collaborating with Capcom, something that Sega should have ironed out and completed with Namco long time ago as it would be a much easier time merging the two systems or having each company make a game with the opposite company's characters, then it is with namco and capcom.

And I didn't even mention what Capcom is doing with STreet Fighter IV, which came out after VF5, but yet we got Super, and now getting Arcade edition. Now, Marvel will come out, We know, Marvel will spawn some DLC and possible another version at some point in the future.

Like people say, Sega simply doesn't know how to Market. Apple is the Anti Sega. They will market sub par products and make it seem like it was the best thing since slice bread. Remember the uselessness that was ipone 1. Make your product cool. That means, if you have to do a little magic colors, then so be it, magic colors but with the same core gameplay underneath doesn't matter, but they refuse. Where is the flair, where is the coolness we get like watching some of those character reveal trailers from MvC3, Where is the cool videos like we got when SSFIV was coming out. Hell, I've always felt, one of the cool things of Soul Calibur was how they had a descent storyline with character motivations. But sega refuses, No storyline within the game at all, No videos, no endings, no cartoons or other things, no Tanooki's like Ibuki had in that video, I mean NOTHING. We all know, we play the storyline quickly but then focus on the vs. matches either online or with friends, but I kinda like knowing M. Bison is that evil bastard that everyone is trying to axe. I kinda digged the whole dead pirate thing from Soul Calibur, going from main villian to scheming to get the soul edge back. Mavel vs. games never had a major storyline, but they have other flair that makes them interesting, tons of things on screen, tons of colors, tons of Wolverine, rogue, Magneto, storm, cyclops, captain america, iron man, spiderman and all your favorite heros and villians with the capcom guys we know and love, plus it is 3 vs. 3.

Something simple like changing things up and doing a 3 vs. 3 or 2 vs. 2 might help. Tekken did it, and is doing it again, the tekken x capcom games will do it, and the capcom vs. games did it and will do it again in MvC3. Sega, nope, they stick to their old guns and never try anything new. Their best effort was to create Goh, a Tekken style character, but then quickly went back to Eileen and Jean Kudo, bland looking characters, and without a storyline to fall in love with them, we simply don't care. Like seriously, Characters like Rachel Alucard, Taokaka, and Bang were essentially made from the story mode as you hear their voices, their jokes, and sillyness in some cases. These things can't really be fully implemented in just a few intro scene before the start of a fight.

To continue to elaborate on the marketing, marketing is both adding flair to the product, Apple did it by making a large screen phone back when they were few and far between, and making it simplistically easy to use. That is like the magic, the 3vs 3, the videos that I just asked for, but Apple also pumped the airwaves, the cable stations, the radio, the magazines, the internet and just about everything with advertisement of some sort with their product. So make your product look good, then advertise it like crazy and make people want it. Sega failed in both. Only Virtua fighter 4 that I could remember had a commercial. Which only lasted like a couple weeks. After that, your best bet was a website panel shot occasiaonlly on IGN or Gamespot was all Virtua Fighter 5 had. Gee, your product has trouble selling so you don't market it, that is smart. I loved Valkyria Chronicles, but it had the same problem, no commercials, a few panels on websites. Sites had to keep saying over and over again to not miss valkyria chronicles, it was the best game no one played, please give it a try, if you like tactical games give it a try, its like IGN, Gametrailers and gamespot, or rpgamer or rpgfan should have been paid by Sega as they were trying to get more people to play Valkyria Chronicles than Sega had.

Oh and Did I forget to add that Sega has a tendency of NOT giving people what they want. Who the hell wanted Valkyria Chronicles 2 and 3 for the PSP. Who was the Dumb person who kept telling us that fighting games can't be played online, and I KNOW some members here were on this also as I was arguing against this notion 5 years ago. Sega did eventually cave on the 360, but with the other problems, and the lateness of that act, it was too late. In addition to playing online, NO DLC, no additional costumes, or tweaked moves or frames, no nothing. Simply forgotten but yet, some people wonder why Virtua Fighter does bad. Super Street Fighter IV is having a 360 online mini evo tournament soon and the PS3 will be in January. Seth Killian, as much as he lies about stuff is often out there promoting, SDTekken (even though he is more tekken, and doesn't work for capcom) is out there Promoting, having deals on fightsticks and stuff. There are live streams, mini tournaments in multiple regions and countries. Capcom will bring unfinished games like Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 to these events, like they did for Super a year ago. It is like a gelled community where the Company knows and values it, they release videos and trailers and other things to make people get hyped, the players are playing, the boards are on fire and sometimes crash during a major tournament. It is just different. Sega Simply abandons Virtua fighter in the West (Europe, North America, and just about everywhere except Japan).

THESE ARE THE PROBLEM VIRTUA FIGHTER HAS. The core fighting engine is irrelevant. Mortal Kombat has its own problem too. They haven't had a descent engine in 15 years, and never had a great engine, it lost its way, but the makers seem to be trying to bring it back, it is trying 2 vs. 2, and they always were better at marketing so they are trying. Sega Simply Folded in the West. WE had to BEG THEM WITH A SIGNED LETTER, and yet we still don't have concrete evidence we will get a game. How pathetic is that.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Powerincarnate,

The way I see it, at VFDC, we just got tired of discussing "how shit Sega is at marketing". we moved on towards more constructive arguments.

All you did was to deconstruct, for the billionth time, why sega is shit. We know. I know. We all know. It's no secret. Thank you for your long post, which could be summarized in 2 lines.

Now what?

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

I agree it's been discussed to death so many times, but now it's time to move on from that. We can't change Sega's business decisions anymore than the next person.

When people get bored of SSF4 and this cross over nonsense, then they may look towards other fighters they never knew existed. There's nothing wrong with VF'S system although I would argue it needs more, how can I put this, coruscation?

Like I've mentioned previously on the subject, story-lines are a must as are FMV ending movies. Also a lobby system similar to DOA4 where you had an avatar that you controlled.

I think if anything VF needs to stay away from the more realistic route, and go further down the flashy routes of SC and Tekken.

Jacky and Taka rolling around the Octagon wearing shorts and sweating?

Doesn't sound appealing unless your a 14 year old girl

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

I agree it's been discussed to death so many times, but now it's time to move on from that. We can't change Sega's business decisions anymore than the next person.

When people get bored of SSF4 and this cross over nonsense, then they may look towards other fighters they never knew existed

DP, I agree with you until this point. people may want to try out something new, and may find VF there. But what will they find in the VF community if all the VF players spend their days moaning and bitching? Nothing at all. So just play the game and be part of the community.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Damn, I could swear you are freakin' trolling, nothing else.

SSF4 and crossover bullshit? Who are you to tell people which fighters they can feel serious about and play for years, huh?
IF someone gets bored of it, then sure, he/she might find VF the next great thing, but who's to say?

VF does not need to do anything but be VF as it is. If you need storylines nad FMV movies, go play a jRPG. I'm not saying those things have not place in fighters, but I'm not saying they are a necessity.

The game will not change itself (=the company will not change the game drastically) for you. It's the other way around. You want certain features, you choose the game that has them.

I'm sorry, but I'm just tired of all this bullshit about Sega being shit, VF in need of change or any other fucking crap people bring here.

As Matt already said. We all know that. You should know that. I know that. Let's move the fuck on, and start discussing VF as it is, not as anyone would wish it were (Tekkenish or Caliburish, or god knows what else-ish).

Cheers.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

And no offense to your good self but who are YOU to tell me what opinion to have? I expressed my opinion simple as that, I don't expect anyone to take it as the golden rule. If anything I would want VF to stay as it has done for years, I do whole heartily agree with you on that point. However I'm simply giving an opinion to the topic and posts based on VF's current standings in the market.

The topic starter quite correctly pointed out that VF sits in an unhappy medium between realism and flash and discussed the idea that VF become more realistic, or indeed the financial standings should VF take that route.

I did not go out on a limb to offend anybody, and I apologize if my comments have upset you.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Key phrase = "they may"... If he said "they will" that's a different story...

VF5FS is a drastic change from the one we're playing now...

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Its probably safe to say that VF5FS is a long long way from VF 1 which means that it can survive changes to the fighting engine, and that the fighting engine has 'evolved' overtime.

Folks, please be objective and open minded.

Let me ask my original question another way.

Given the true history of MMA and what it was like in the late 80's and early 90's. Here's my question.

If a gaming company were to make a MMA game in say 1990-1993 with the best of the technology that was available then console ,aracade, or P.C. How much different would that game be from the original Virtua Fighter? Given what MMA was in the early 90's, kung fu, sumo, karate, wrestling, were just starting to be put against each other back then. If someone were to make a game, based on the graphics of the time, and the fighting engines available at the time, the state of motion capture at that time, the fact that arcades were still in the mix at that time, how different would it really be from VF 1?

I know its 2010 and trying to remember what the gaming hardware, software constraints were like in the late 80's early 90's is tough. If I'm correct, VF 1 was as realistic as you could get in those days, using the fighting engines technology and graphics technology that was available.

Also after reading the Interviews with YS its obvious the man wanted to push the envelope, and not just do what every one else was doing at the time. VF1 was as realistic as you could get. If the Virtua Fighter series had maintained that distinction of being the most realistic fighting game the hardware was capable of producing, right up until Virtual Fighter 5 how different would VF be from the UFC games?
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I'm happy with VF the way it is too. I have invested a great deal of time in learning the fight mechanics, frame rate advantages, disadvantages, and all of our favorite defensive and offensive techniques. So no I'm not just willy nilly suggesting a new fighting engine.

What I am saying, is that for all intentional VF1 was the first 'realistic MMA' game of the early 90's. and because of its realism today, it would probably sell more if it were marketed as a virtual mma game. It would not be necessary to change the game engine in order to shift the market focus, but since the fighting engine for VF has evolved from VF1 to VF5FS, maybe tweaking a few things so that the combat sport fans would more fully embrace it wouldn't be a bad thing. For example, removing, or really minimizing floating, probably wouldn't destroy VF's gameplay but it would make it more attractive to the sports combat fighting fans.

Yes, Sega's marketing is horrible. But even it were good, VF is simply not attractive to the exact same market as Tekken, MK, SC, DOA,etc because its to plain(to much realism) not enough fantasy. On the other hand, its complmentary to the UFC games.