The Virtua Fighter Realism Dilemma

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

How about 4D Sports Boxing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4D_Sports_Boxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jXb60hkPuA

In car games, more realism is most of the time better.
But that wont make F-zero and wipeout a lesser games.

Realism has allways been more or less up to game makers and not about their platform where they make games.

We are ultimately talking about games, not reality.

EDIT:I must add this here also: i bet that in GT5, the makers maked the cars so realisticly looking and hooned every polygon. And after they had done that they realised that there is no more room to make realistic damage model. Power of PS3 just was not enough. Which you want to choose? damage model or beatiful cars?

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Too much realism is a bad thing! I agree, we are talking about games and not scientific or military, or financial simulations. I agree. If its too realistic its no longer fun.

1) 4d boxing, I still have it (actually you can download it now for free). It was my first boxing game. I think it is older than VF by a couple of years. Buts its not mixed martial arts. Or I would have included it as one of the first.

2) I only pointed out that Sega/AM2 made VF the most realistic 3D fighting game of that time. Yu Suzuki obviously was trying to fulfill one his visions with VF. He could have went the fantasy route, but he didn't. He started out to make a believable martial arts simulator, and that what he did. As a result VF is too realistic for many of the fans of other more fantasy based fighting games. I'm just pointing that out as only [one] of the reason's VF does not sell as much as a Tekken or Soul Calibur, and why its not as popular.

3) Given the fact that VF does have a beyond average amount of
realism in it (compared to other fighters) I'm simply
suggesting (key word is suggesting) that VF might be
easier marketed to the sports combat simulation crowd,
(i.e. UFC, MMA) gang. That is a much bigger market than
the fantasy based fighters, and in the long run VF might
and VF fans might be better off.

If we had VF5FS in our hands right now, I'd be to busy playing it to come up with all these wacky scenarios. But we didn't get VF5R, we don't have VF5FS, its not clear whether there will ever be another console release. So at this point as a loyal VF fan, and consumer, I have a right to speculate/evaluate what went wrong, how could it possibly be made right

We all want VF5FS right now. But a large part of the reason we don't have it right now is probably due to poor sales on the consoles. Which in part is because of Sega's poor or non existent advertising and marketing, but to the extent that it is marketing, IMO its marketed to the wrong audience. I think VF would enjoy more than a few hundred thousand units sold, if it were targeted to the sports combat audience, where UFC and the Fight Night series have sold in the millions of units.

It should be obvious by now that (in general) the fantasy fighting audience does not love VF, even those that know what it is, often choose to pass on it, or pick it up, and put it right back down.

The dilemma is , that VF is too realistic for the fantasy fighting market, but it needs to be made a little more realistic for the sports combat market and as a result,
it doesn't sell very well among either audience.

Just look at VF on the national/international fighting game tournament scene. Its not that no one knows what VF is, its just the fantasy fighting crowd prefer other games, BlazeBlue, StreetFighter,Soul Calibur, Tekken, etc. Maybe we should give the sports fighting game crowd a try.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Can't believe I am replying to another Masterpo BS bandwidth wasting post but things need to be said.

1. There is NOTHING realistic about Virtua Fighter. There was nothing realistic about VF1's moon-level gravity and float combos. There was nothing realistic about the metal cyborg/borg-nanovirus infested mom of Kage or whatever the heck Dural is supposed to be. There is nothing realistic about TFT, Kage's head stomp, Newtonian physics defying bounce combos, 90 pound girl beating a 250 pound wrestler, or the said PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER(s) doing professional wrestling moves, or even LOW PUNCH, ON AND ON.

2. You are utterly truly delusional if you think anybody here would be interested in playing a VF game turned UFC clone. If I want to play a UFC game, I play a UFC game, instead of picking Kage in VF and admire the mind boggling realism as I perform a TFT combo for ringout. And as a side note, nobody would watch a Jacky Chan or Tony Jaa movie either where they spend 10 mins on the ground trying to get into a full mount or armbar. Most people do know that real fights would not look like a Jacky Chan or Tony Jaa movie, and that's the level of "realism" people accept.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

@Hyunster I'll bet my 7 links below (plus many many more) against your post that you have nothing but a baseless erroneous opinion.


Critics Say VF is realistic


Reviewer says VF5 is all about realism!

Reviewers say VF 'Most Realistic '

According to Thunderbolt VF4 EVo is all about realism

Sega Stars Yu Suzuki says VF has 'REALISTIC Combat"

Facebook VF most realistic fighter ever

The history of VF "realistic sense of motion and fluidity"

As always, I can always back up what I'm posting. If I can't back it up, then I don't post it.

Hyunster, you my friend are simply dead wrong. Google can help you out with that. One of the hallmarks of VF has been its realism or realistic or believable moves. That's been written in almost every major review by almost every major game reviewer in the world. So if you're going to attack what I'm saying try to pick something where I don't have a thousand links to prove you wrong

BTW, read the posts first b4 you comment, otherwise you're embarrassing yourself and anybody else who might be unfortunate enough to have your same opinion.

I said nothing about making VF a UFC clone. That would be an ignorant move, and a ignorant suggestion. So if you're gonna troll try to at least skim first b4 you make a fool out of yourself. If you don't want to read all of the posts in their entirety then ask someone whose credible and has read them to give you an accurate summary. Otherwise you do yourself an injustice

We can agree to disagree about the future of VF or what would be best for the series going forward, or what would be a good marketing ploy. Most of us are adults here. But please at least know the real history of the game, and where the game has always stood in contrast to other fighting games. Find and read the major reviews from the very beginning on the game. Be informed

I'm offering my opinion just like you are, the difference is my opinion is informed, well reasoned, and is open to intelligent discussion.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Pit Fighter... That is all...

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

That game was "Totally Studly!"

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Yes, watch me rise as my fight winnings become enough to raise this forklift truck's forklifts!

I always found it strange that out of all the big weapons to choose from on the ground, the CPU would go for the crappy cardboard box on the other side to the rest of the weapons. Then I'd discover that the power pill would conveniently be always inside it. And then Danny Glover (AKA Southside Jim) would beat the shit out of me.

Also, my friend just loved Pit Fighter on the Amiga because it corrupted his copy of Syndicate so it would only play in French.

Finally, if you think Pit Fighter is realism, you need to play Guardians of the Hood. Such a masterpiece.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Masterpo says:

blah blah


Masterpo, I am again sorry that you have pissed your life away that your existence and identity relies on writing pointless, 5000-word posts over and over that nobody reads. But to honor your post, I am sure I can find many "links" that claim that VF is a crap too, not to mention many "links" that remind you that you are a moron.

VF1 was realistic only compared to SF and Mortal Kombat. To match your style of pretentious writing, let me tell you a fable.


Sage Mencius (look it up) was one day invited to a king ruling a country during China's Spring and Autumn Period. He said to Mencius: "I am a benevolent ruler, and I imagine people from other countries would want to move to my country. But they don't come to my kingdom and I wonder why?" Then Mencius says. "Let me tell you a story. There was a cowardly soldier who, upon seeing the enemy, ran away 50 yards. Then he saw another soldier who ran away 100 yards. He calls the other soldier coward for running away 100 yards while he only ran away 50. Now is he not a coward as well?"

"That's absurd. Both of them were cowards and 100, or 50 makes no difference." Mencius then responds: "To say that you are a benevolent ruler is no different than that soldier considering himself brave."


To recap: Oh, Tekken is so unrealistic they have a boxing kangaroo and we only have. . . um. . .some liquid metal robot thing. Oh SF is so unrealistic they have fireballs and dragon punches! And we only have um. .. dragon punches. And again I remind you that you are a moron, and I can post many links from this very own website that would "backup" that point.

Edit:
P.S
To see what a "more realistic" VF _might_ look like, check out Fight Club the game and see how the game was reviewed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz2rSb2ccRI&feature=related

PPS: Pit Fighter was cool.

 

The Virtua Fighter Realism Dilemma

@Hyunster, I realize you're trying to save face. You don't have the integrity or courage to simply admit that your off base on this one. But here are some facts that directly contradict what you just posted.

1) This thread has over 1800 views. While some have half read
my posts, some skimmed, many have read and responded. So
the very 1RST sentence of your post is inaccurate and
faulty.

2) You did not address facts or the caliber of the people,
and organizations in my links that referred to VF's
realism, realistic motion, believeablilty etc. Those
links directly contradicted what you posted. The reason
I included them in my post was to explicity challenge you
and demonstrate that you have no idea wtf UR talking
about. I notice, you chose to try to ignore or avoid them
you can't, They back me up, and they shut you down.


3) You say that you can find many links that claim that
VF is crap. Yet you did not provide even a single link.
I don't think there is a single credible source that you
cite that says VF is crap. Where are your links?

4) Your poorly defended and articulated issue is not whether
VF is crap or not, but whether it has any realism at all
go back and read your own post. You asserted that it has
no realism. I provided you with several links from
credible sources that disagree with your assertion.

5) Please, don't bring a fable to a gun fight. You can't
deflect the fact that you have no links, no credible
sources, to back you up, and you did nothing to discredit
the links that I provided that back me up. So your
reference to Mencius was a failed attempt at a dodge.


Originally, I thought I was exchanging posts with a man. I assumed that at first. But from your response, its clear you're just a boy. An ignorant, self absorbed, uninformed, immature boy. So listen boy, when you're dealing with MasterPo you're dealing with a man, you have to bring it like a man, not like a boy. You have nothing but you're own baseless opinion to back up anything that you're posting, let alone contradict anything that I'm posting.

You need to grow up a little, and practice a little more before you spar with me. Boy, you should refrain from trying to insult MasterPo, you have not yet acquired the vocabulary to do so. You're a little punk, so instead of trolling why don't you go and do something else little punks do.

@Hyunster

Produce credible links from credible sources that conclude that VF is crap.

Produce credible links from credible sources that back up your
moron assertion

Address the links that I posted that clearly designate VF as having realism, believability, or realistic motion and fluidity.[/size]


<span style="font-size: 20pt">
Or STFU.</span>

 

Re: The Virtua Fighter Realism Dilemma

Masterpo,
Matter of fact is nobody feel compelled to read your posts to the end and you may have noticed that nobody is _really_ discussing your point and the threads you create becomes more interesting only when it goes off topic. Hardly anybody respects you here and spending 5000 words and 1000 links to address crap point doesn't make it un-crap. While I recognize that it's unsporting to attack the person instead of the person's opinion, I insult you because I think you are one of the few people who actually deserve insults. And I can't care less what you think of me. I have no face to save since unlike you my identity and self-esteem doesn't depend on some BS spewed here.

I would be more than happy to be a little punk, a little boy, and receive insults from you if that gets on your nerve, without playing your little game of pretentiousness. The only reason not to that is that I have more respect for my time and other people's time.


You have been told to STFU before and you don't heed such advice. So don't tell me to STFU as only I and Myke have rights to decide on that point. (And if Myke tells me to STFU I am willing to respect that unlike you.)


Coming soon: more 5000 word retort from Masterpo.

Edit: I have been told by a private message by a respectable member of VFDC not to take the bait, which really is the right advice. People tried attacking him and he doesn't learn. Tried to hijack his threads and make them irrelevant and he doesn't learn. Tried to just give him the satisfaction of agreement and he doesn't learn. It's hopeless.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Like I thought, you don't have any thing to back up your points. Where are the credible links from credible sources you
referred to. Missing... Right?

I provided links to back up my points. You tried to dodge my links by attacking me. My links, my proof, my points still stand.

Once again all you have is empty, baseless talk

boy...

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Are we really talking about VF being realistic?

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

IMO its as realistic as a game can be. More realistic than other fighing games as far as animations go. To be MORE realistic they should reduce floats/juggles and keep the ground game only, but that would make it less exciting fro some (not me, I hate combos).

But I can realistically imagine Jeff smashing Eileen in the air.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Masterpo, you're a complete idiot, and I have a link to back that up: http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/userposts/id/6526

By the way, I love not reading your posts. It makes me feel good to scroll past your post, catching one or two lines out of the corner of my eye, the contents of which convince me that I've made the right choice. Reading the well-formed responses to your drivel reinforces the very nature of your mind-numbing rants.

The reason why the old die is because they need to make way for the new. You are a deluded old man that thinks your opinion carries weight, and are too stubborn to accept other people's opinions. I have both agreed and disagreed with you in the past, but no matter which stance I took, the fact that you're a complete imbecile is indisputable. I look forward to not reading your pathetic, inevitable response.

Hats off to the biggest, smelliest troll on VFDC - the guy who LOVES writing pseudo-philosophical bullshit that has no place in a discussion and criticizes someone else for citing a poignant fable dealing with the issues at hand. Congratulations you smoldering piece of dog shit, I hope you're happy with your status as the laughing stock of the entire website

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Ladon, you are a nice guy but that is straight trolling IMO,

besides, what you and hyunster are really doing is soft censoring Po, which is not really my cuppa tea. let him do his thing, you have no right speaking for the whole of VFDC, and me and tengu seem to agree that this kind of school bullying is out of place in a nice forum like VFDC.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

My scouter read his troll level at 9,100 before it broke. He indeed is becoming a master at his craft. He might even surpass you one day Matt.

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

I suppose it's a personal thing then. I simply can't stand hypocrites, self-righteous people, or people that talk with authority when they have no valid basis for their arguments. Especially when those people proclaim to start a discussion, when in fact all they do is promote their own ideas and opinions without giving proper weight to the ideas and opinions of others. They're more interested in the sound of their own voices. They speak of fundamental truths, but don't understand that "listening" is not the same as "hearing."

Then again, I'm not above acknowledging that it may be my own bias, seeings how I honestly don't read but snippets of PadawanPo's posts. I may have no respect for you at all Po, but I've got nothing against you as a person in all honesty. Keep doing what makes you happy, and I shall do myself a favor and put you on "ignore", as I should have long ago

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

Ladon, my son its been so long since we've shared posts. Its good to interact again. I'm proud of the way that you have come to the defense of your young brother Hyunster. He was kind-a
struggling with coming up with insults, I guess he was unable to articulate {idiot, imbecile, and laughing stock} but between you and him I think you've covered the bases your education is capable of covering. Ladon,

It is written: "Shape clay into a vessel, it is the space within that gives it value. Place doors and windows in a house. It is the opening that brings light within. Set spokes within a wheel. It is the emptiness of the hub that makes them useful." Therefore, be the space at the center. Be nothing. And you will have everything to give to others, I am nothing[/size].

It is said of the haters No one knows all. We were challenged by a festering anger. The challenge was accepted. And in the end, the seeds of hatred destroyed themselves. As they always do. As they always will. Ladon, be not a h8ter but rather one
who has praise for life. Seek always peace. Wear no paths for the footsteps of others, unless the soul is endangered. We are all linked by our souls. To endanger one, endangers all.

Ladon, you and Hyunster lash out because of a heart full of youthful fear but when the heart knows no danger, no danger exists. When the soul becomes the warrior, all fear melts, as the snowflake that falls upon your hand, I'm not mad at you, I would like to share this with you and Hyunster:

Discipline your body, that your mind may find a greater power
Those who surrender themselves, find inner strength. he wild boar runs from the tiger. Knowing that each being well armed by nature with deadly strength, may kill the other. Running, he saves his own life, and that of the tiger. This is not cowardice. It is the love of life. Ladon, Hyunster do you not love life?

Today, you both have taken your first step toward the road to Shaolin. In the Shaolin temple, there are three kinds of men. Students, disciples, and masters. I am the master and you are my students. Listen:

Development of the mind can be achieved only when the body has been disciplined. To accomplish this the ancients have taught us to imitate God’s creatures. From the crane we learn grace and self control. The snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger we learn tenacity and power. And from the dragon, we learn to ride the wind. Life sustains life. And all living creatures need nourishment. Yet, with wisdom, the body learns to sustain in ways that all may live.

Soon you will not have to look out the corner of your eye at my posts, you will be able to face them head on as the disciple that you are

 

Re: There is no Realism Dilemma

It doesn't seem like the reviewers are saying its boring, more like the regular cats on the forums... Not trying to seem negative, but this is what I come across (some are old)... You might have to skim a bit though:

http://shoryuken.com/content/you-can-help-bring-vf5r-consoles-107/

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/12/x3f-hands-on-virtua-fighter-5/

http://www.1up.com/news/egm-scorecard-crackdown-vf5

http://boards.ign.com/xbox_360_general_board/b8266/177387789/p1/?6

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/games/vf5.html