There's life left in VF5!

Neutral guard won; t guard everything. Some strings just break through it, not sure how it works but yea.

 

"Chicken"!!!!...lol,random but i just had to say it

 

It has to do with block stun. Certain attacks, when blocked, negate a neutral guard allowing for follow ups to hit. I remember in T5 if an opponent neutral guard's Bryan's b+1, you get a free 1_12_14, but only if they don't initiate b/db.

 

Virtua Fighter 5 has never been alive in the US, its to hardcore for most US gamers. However, its makes it much easy to be a "pro" player here in the US. When a new VF drops, it might relight a lil fire in th US. Taking for granted they release the game with a decent online and Dojo this time for the PS3 and 360.

 

has long has there is a group of people to play v in the west.. the scene will never truly die.

 

Basically^. Teach your friends to play it, Its so much better offline anyway. Make your own scene, Thats want I been working on. Get enuff people to play and it will expand. Word of mouth.

 

What if no one has the patience to learn it?

 

It takes some fierce competition to even light a fire under people to want to continue to play, or even learn how to play initially. It's like a circle.

 

Thats a very good point. It is key for you to gentlely introduce them to the game and its system. Most people jus want to play and feels as if they are not having their hand held the whole time. Go easy on them the frist few match or better have two rookies v.s. and just watch. Point out things as they play every so often, try not overwhelm them. Say things like "Oh, did you know if you pressed P,K,G, just as you hit the ground you can get up faster?"

In theory, you want them to ask question and you need to encourage them to ask

 

imo vf is only good when you play with someone around your same skill level and understanding, whether that be beginner, intermediate, or expert.

It takes a healthy amount of competition to have those 3 levels at a variety that doesn't get redundant.

The game is unfun and a turn off, when the upper level has to play a lower one, and the game can be discouraging and appear like a timesink when a lower level plays an upper.

 

Which would be why its best two have to rookies v.s.

"Timesink" to level up and develop your community? I suggest you take a look at that elitest train of thought. Thats what killed the SF community for years (and only now has it manged to by force via SF4 open up its doors and not kindly might I add.)

Wrost yet you make it sound like a chore to play the game. You should find joy in teaching someone the game, not only do they level -up, but you do as well in teaching them.

However, I might be reading your post wrong in what you meant, in such case I'm not trying to insult you.

 

Can't this apply to almost any activity, muchless, game?

 

I thought the same thing.

 

IMHO, almost everyone is missing the point here.

Personally, I think TZ's WCMaxi stated it quite rightly: nobody wants to study how to play a game.

"Gaming" is something the general public views as a pastime/a way to unwind/relax, mess about with ALL their friends with, etc. shouldn't be taxing or at the very worst, alienating (ever had that one friend over who was the only one that couldn't play VF?).

Very few people enjoy studying, not learning, studying how to play a game. It's not the challenge that turns people off, but the fact that you have to study in order to overcome that challenge, as opposed to say, being able to shoot the guy in the head. In the latter, no new knowledge was required by way of study - you simply had to better apply what you had initially learned. e.g . no study involved, but a challenge nonetheless.

"Teaching" people VF may attract a few people (similar kinds of people already playing the game - the ones that enjoy learning), but it won't attract casuals. In fact, it will most likely turn them off.

A technical game can succeed if there are a lot of "achievements" that can be accessed regardless of play level. If a casual player mashes out an ultra in SF4, to that person, they have achieved something: pulling off a "difficult", but highly rewarding move. If an intermediate player executes a fairly difficult combo, they too have achieved something: higher guaranteed damage + visual cues stating/confirming that they have. Sometimes they even get a trophy. And advanced players will consider win streaks, tourney results, etc. as achievements instead.

What VF is missing is the bottom piece and some parts of the middle of the achievement pyramid: providing mashing casuals with some sort of achievement.

In the past, being able to land a hard kick to the face would have been achievement enough as it was at home with market culture of that time. Now, with everything becoming increasingly over-the-top, as shown in increasing increments: from Kill Bill, to The Matrix, to Transformers, cartoons such as DragonBall, and games such as Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Bayonetta, etc. the sense of achievement VF currently provides is comparatively... dull. Especially since it's paired with a very high learning curve.

We can discuss amount and levels of competition, etc. but it all boils down to the fundamental point of playing a game: the feeling of achievement. When beginners don't feel they are achieving, they feel "why am I doing this? I have more fun with <insert other game here>".

Fun = feeling of exhilaration brought about through a sense of achievement. The "yeah!" feeling.

To be perfectly honest, Sega is right on the money when they said that they felt the series needs a full overhaul. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if VF5R ends up being the last VF, and AM2 creates a brand new fighter that is more in tune to the current market.

 

Panda, I dont know but I so disagree with you. You somehow got in your head that VF is elitist and so is VFDC. this is just the way you perceive this game to be and I coul not disagree more.

VF is the easiest pick up and play game there is. SF4 is hard as fuck, its wooden and combos/links are hard. How can you say VF is in need of a overhaul? I can quote an AM interview that says that "VF4 as a one on one fighter was already perfect". What they did was adding to that perfect formula things like OM and clash.

What you are describing is a mix of DOA dial a combo and Tekken flash, guess what, that game is actually out already and its called SOUL CALIBUR 4, strange that Namco is running out of steam though, cause they recycled one too many animations in my opinion.

I recently read some stuff about DRIVE and DESIRE:

In Drive the subject pushes the enjoyment away but still gets it, in desire the subject pulls enjoyment towards but continue to miss it.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NXfzZ...zek&f=false

It seems to me that button bashing maybe will give noobs a sense of happiness when they see some flashes on screen, but that enjoyment is short lived because they desire easy wins and will move the next best thing very soon.

VFers get their enjoyment from the drive of improving, training and practicing diffucult stuff, they reject immediate enjoyment to find pleasure in the drive to get better.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VF is the easiest pick up and play game there is.</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SF4 is hard as fuck, its wooden and combos/links are hard.</div></div>
My face right now.

On a slightly more serious note, Panda hit the nail on the head just there. Although he's saying things that have been said time and time again here on VFDC there are still people who don't understand it.

 

You missed my point entirely. Entirely.

::EDIT:: You're mixing "dumbing down" with "casual appeal". I'm saying that the two are not mutually dependent on each other, which is what you think I am saying.

You don't need to dumb down VF to make it appealing to the casual market.

People are confusing "accessibility" with improved tutorials and training modes. No. That's not accessibility. A game is accessible when it can be appreciated and enjoyed on all levels - even button mashing ones. VF is not appealing or fun as a button masher. THAT'S the problem. SC4 is, which is why it's sold as much as it has. The problem with SC4 is that at high levels, it's crap compared to SC1.

Also, nowhere in my post did I call VF or VFDC elitist.

 

VF not appealing or fun as a button masher, THAT IS THE PROBLEM?

Sorry I lost you. I though that was the whole point of VF, not-button-mashing.

Carry on, I wasted precious time posting this, wont happen again lol.

 

Nevermind. You really don't see the issue, so there's no point in responding.

 

Hahaha this thread is golden.
You know in all honesty, VF has a problem none of us can fix online anyway. Its "US." Bare with me for just a sec, what's left on VF at this point are a bunch of hardcores or absolute scrubs. A fair percentage of these hardcores understand some simple concepts or have committed things to muscle memory that work more or less. Scrubs? ppp,k works wonders when your
just trying to get a baring on the game.

So a new player without a coach will simply come in and see a shitty masher or get his ass whooped by some veteran. Remember Konjou waiting for an hour for some comp? I feel bad for Bill who just picked up this game and runs into him. Not that Konjou will just beat him stupid. Shit he may not even play him. Time to wait another 45 mins for comp.

There's not enough people in the learning phase in US VF. Honestly I think there never will be. Yeah, yeah everyone in
the US is in a learning phase. If you know you're at +2 or whatever for a blocked standing jab though? You're way beyond
anybody that just picked up the game.

(Still gets a kick out of a memory of when I was trying to get a bud to play VF, soon as I even mentioned pluses and minuses he flipped. I tried to recover by saying okay if someone blocks your jab you have "priority" but he has already said fuck this. Can't blame him, I needed a thorough ass whooping by Slide before I even looked at the numbers)