Top 10 Moves

I just put together a list of my personal favourite vanessa moves,
will tidy it up and post it later if there is still any point.

It didn't really become solely a "top ten", but atleast there is a small note on
my reasoning for using them - for people to tear apart and possibly
ridicule me about.

 

My small contribution and explanation of my scrubby view on my favourite Vanessa moves (i.e my currently used ones)

Mistakes are probably here to find in abundance, will correct it if so.

Here we go:


OS: / DS:

Spoiler

- It should be sort of obvious, a sane response when not having many frames to waste,
and also to mix up with something else.
Interruption and shenanigans.

DS:

Spoiler

- A good thing against a backdash,or mixed up from something else to hit as a counter.
Just merely keeping the opponent away to gain some space is another valid application.

OS:

Spoiler

- Somewhat easier to hit with then +, and also a nice tool to 'build something creative with against walls'.
It can be a nice spacing tool aswell.

DS: /

Spoiler

- Many lean towards a 'strong dislike' for someone using this more
then once every blue moon - but that is also one of the benifits of using it.
The second K is a circular, side-turns your opponent and 'stops' an evading attempt.
For instance, condition your opponent to only expect KK and then 3k or a throw,
only to then try to do it twice or thrice
- then go back to the first sane use of it.
'I do not mean all these options in succesion, but when the situation arises'
You can also just go for one K and then something entirerly else (like throw high or low).
For such a simple move i find it to have quite a lot of applications for conditioning, but some will piss on you for it.

OS:

Spoiler

- Not as useful as the DS version, but it can be nice to hit away when the opponent is expecting a high and are unawares, or a bit further away.
Though even if it hits the question is what to do after, so perhaps best used as an 'ender-move'.

DS: + / +

Spoiler

- The first are nice when timed right, and sometimes hitting with that give you extra time to do something nasty from lying down straight after.
Straight K's from this can be evil against a wall.
mind the timing though, and be wary of hesitation.

OS: //

Spoiler

- The first version usually helps me against an evade or block-and-evade attempting player, the second i most often use when they are ready for it ending in a circular and crouches after the first .
It is also not half bad to start off combo-esque things with, especially when hitting as a counter.

OS: +

Spoiler

- So slow it hurts, but after a read and timed right it can be demoralizing, and piss the opponent off.
I like to time it against 'instantly teching up' players, or to make an evade from an opponent close to the edge 'not go so well'. It is also + on block. Overused it will just be crouched or otherwisly dealt with from a wise opponent

DS:

Spoiler

- Useful for interruption in fitting strings, or just as an 'annoying abare-tool', in the second case i call it the 'it-is-not-your-turn-just-yet'-move.

OS:

Spoiler

- Love or Hate, I tend to use it as an interruption after an attempt to read and predict a 2P, low attack, throw or slower launcher.
That it launches itself are a sweet plus and gives an opportunity to build something out of.

DS/OS: +

Spoiler

- In a mix between charged and not, it helps when timed right, it can also fudge with the opponents "rythm".
might be nice vs wakeup or other scenarios

OS +

Spoiler

- This one is kind of clunky, but it can be useful 'if time and reading is one your side', for example to counter
a forward rushing character coming in fast with a lower attack, or time against a low rising attack.

OS :

Spoiler

- This covers some distance fast, is quite safe on block. i like to use it when i get the distance just right and the other player whiffs a string ,
or a slower low move that makes him rise quickly again.

OS: +

Spoiler

- The 'catchy-throw', it can be useful and annoying when used in the right situations,
especially if you have made the opponent expect another offensive approach.
Will make you look silly if crouched, backdashed away from
or otherwisely dealt with though.

DS/OS: +

Spoiler

- Keeping the player away, it has a 'totally sane' range too. Can be added when building something fun involving wall-splats too.

OS: (landing after a jump)

Spoiler

- This one is nice to either time as a 'meaty'?, delayed after jumping away from a baited low rising attack,
or coming unexpected from advancing from long range. If the player wishes to press buttons after hit you can sing a merry tune too sometimes.

OS: (and friends)

Spoiler

- I often find myself looking for a good low, string-starter - this does atleast go
a tiny way towards a remedy to that situation.

DS: (rising after a crouch)

Spoiler

- Can be suprisingly handy, if not only to 'mix up' things from 'rare 2p-situations'.

 

I can't understand a Vaness top ten moves without OS.

I dislike the input, but man, that kick.

 

PReP: there's something wrong with your spoiler nesting, OS and DS WS are hidden inside the OS jump > spoiler. Fixed.

Question: when you write "OS " do you mean "dash > pile bunker" or "dash > backswing body"? Fixed, was pile bunker.

Thank you for your feedback! Interesting approach.

 

@ erdraug:

Ah, thanks for finding out my typos - i meant the former, corrected that.
This was more timeconsuming to format and type then i imagined

 

@PReP: going over your list again - i see you've ranked DS first on your list - doesn't the short range bother you? How/when do you use the move?

Also, i admit, i'm kinda surprised to find OS in your list It's one of her signature moves but i can't seem to find a use for it nowadays ( tends to be just as effective). Do you have a favorite setup you'd like to recommend?

 

@erdraug: The t-rex lenght is crap, for sure - but i merely mean it as a close-up, annoying interrupt now and then.
The list is not ordered in any way, or prioratized - and i have tried explaining my reasoning - for better or worse - in the spoilers.
(The difference between 1 K+G and 9P would be range, or what "range" vanessas body and hitbox would travel - but both are good moves i'd say )

@G_A: I understand your objection, that is an awesome CH tool that kick (if it is the one i think it is), the thing is just that i haven't worked that into my gameplay yet, though it is a likely next candidate. I just tried to keep the list at moves i honestly can say i use more often, and with intent, this moment. - but i do add new ones or seek to refine myself all the time.

I know this might be a bit weird or "un-orthodox" to some, but i do not think that techically on the moves themselves - but instead work them in naturally by reaction.
This also means though, that in some situations i might not use the totally best possible answer, but the the one that feels most natural to me right now and then.

But it is always a constant work towards improving, doing away with what does not work and attempts to change what needs to be changed.

 

No problem man, I understand, the input is definitely not natural ( can help), so that something that must be "worked", it won't come like that.
Brad has one similar (one frame slower, that give more or less the combo same damage), that I never bothered to master at that time. But it's mainly because he has tons of great alternatives (for abare).


Awesome to punish abare and evades to your front as well. Sometimes to poke. Give a chance to this move, mid-risk, high-reward.

 

After playing offline with friends back home in Greece (who use a completely different set of characters than my usual sparring partner, kingo) i am starting to re-evaluate the power of DS as PReP mentioned it at the top of his list lately. Being 10f exe deters vanessa's opponent from using a mid CH floater (usually 16f) in fuzzy guard situations (-1 to -5).

In those (situations since most opponents' elbows will lose) AFAIK their options are:
15f or faster standing moves
lows (which can't launch)
tech-crouch standing moves (ex. shoulder rams, which are usually slow and/or not as rewarding on recovery hit)
backdash (giving up their advantage)
evade (also giving up their advantage)

So DS is particularly good after some of vanessa's attacks that leave her at -1 to -3 (because most characters can't "elbow" her) such as:

Guarded DS (-1) or (-2)
NH DS (-3) or (-2)

These moves don't have pushback so the short range on DS is not usually a problem (maybe it can whiff if you connect with the tip of ?). Obviously there are exceptions since Brad's 12f or Kage's 13f will ruin your day; but these floaters, being high, are vulnerable to low punch abare...

Long story short, DS : i) renders two of DS vane's CH floaters safer; ii) negates some of the frame disadvantage of the DS string; iii) generally forces the opponent to think outside the box at lower disadvantages.

Note: I realize that i appear to be reinventing the wheel here but, being averse to abare, i had somewhat neglected the move. However, contrary to abare with DS sabakis, an incorrect guess on my part didn't seem to get me killed and i'm excited to report i have re-evaluated my assessment of the move.

 

Posting because this is an interesting thread:

DS (in no particular order):
1P+K
4P
: + - her only 15f fuzzyable mid.
+ - Long range and one of her few lows
Throws
KK (lots!)
1P
3P +ve on guard, love it
3K that side crumple. I use it after throw escapes.
+ : + her 17f mid 'launcher'


OS:
- not sure why this is here, probably a typo for
3K series (I know, it's not that great but I like it)
+ probably my favourite move in OS, partly for the 'boom' when it hits, and partly for the massive pushback.
+ : + I like the damage potential and safeish on hit I think?
66P+G
6P
44K+G - great for getting space, switching stance
9P
41236P+G - ends with opponent facedown, feet towards
6P+K
2KPP/K - I know I shouldn't really use this
I don't use 1P, I will start after reading this thread. I would like to use 4K6 but it doesn't feel hit-checkable? Haven't had time to test it yet.

 

I have updated with the moves that aren't obvious. I'm still a beginner so grain of salt.

Erdraug - 3P opens up 1P when they begin to 2P. At -3 when the opponent can only hit you with a P or 2P, 1P is perfect. I love 1P.

 

You're not the only one; many players swear by that move. I remember a particular NorCal tournament match, Zerochan vs Radical Reactor, both players love their DS1P

As for me I have been voicing my reservations a while ago and gave up altogether in 2009.

 

Hm. I don't mean to say that it's necessarily the greatest move ever, just that I love using it and finding a situation I can use it in

From -1 to -3 the opponent can be considered in a kind of yomi state between 3P and 1P, if you want to play it like that. If they throw, P or 2P, van's 1P wins. If they do anything else (including block), van's 3P wins.

Anyway, after seeing the threads about 1P, I might leave it at that...

 

Remember, every time you get thrown, you could have avoided it AND 2P by using 1P

I'm seriously joking, I think it comes down to playstyle whether or not you use 1P.

I completely agree about moral opponents - if they start switching between 2P and a launcher, 1P/3P mixup is suddenly a really bad option for van.

 

Since VF5US released I have been spectating a lot of Vanessa players (due to not having a PS4) and this has led me to reconsider some of my move ratings:

OS : Rayblade is getting SO much mileage from this move. At this point I'm considering bumping it to "bread and butter", taking the spot of and that can be relegated to just "decent".

OS and : No one is using these moves. I guess in theory moves that do considerable damage on NH are great but in reality this rarely matters - opponents tend to DO stuff. Both moves are 19 frames, both are equally vulnerable to backdash according to my testing, but at least the former has a followup in case the opponent decides to evade instead (does more damage if it connects too, and is a true mid). Also the latter does NOT change places with the opponent when the hit-throw connects, IDK what i was smoking when i wrote that. They should probably be relegated to respectively to "decent" and "extraneous".

OS : I considered this a situationally useful move, due to shutting down low-profile moves from Lion, Shun and Eileen. However the move is rarely used: Vanessa players prefer to make hard calls with and instead and hope they connect with the magic moves. I guess the guaranteed reward for connecting with a (trivial damage) is not that exciting. It will probably have to be relegated to merely "decent".

DS : I also considered this a situationally useful move vs Aoi on wakeup, punishing flipkicks and pressuring an opponent who has their back to the wall. But it's never used, even in these situations. The move is just too slow and doesn't DO anything except some damage when it hits. Relegating it to the "extraneous" category seems fair.