UFC 2010 Undisputed

While we don't close off a whole style (what we call Fighting Techniques) based on what you know in another style, we also don't allow for what you describe.

When it comes to a game like this, you can neither, "just make it like real life" nor, "just ignore reality and make whatever is most fun." It's tricky.

 

Of course I want balance, look at the AKI wrestling games. It was actually easier to make unique characters/styles because of the move selection flexibility.

It's hard for me to explain what I am getting at. Only being able to select move sets and not moves individually prevents you from creating a character exactly how you want. You should be able to create your own fighting style. In the end being forced to select move sets disallows diversity and you'll eventually bump into someone with the exact same moves. Which is lame.

Even the old PRIDE game had individual move selection. It was not cheap at all and it actually worked out well.

Anyone remember the second def jam game? You weren't allowed to select your moves individually, eventually you ended up with a fighting style you did not have in mind, you also ended up fighting exactly like another created character.

 

I do understand what you mean by coming up with your own style.
Actually that would be the ultimate customization. I really understand. And I guess you could call your fighter's style free style MMA.

Rose, look I'm not going to even bring up the programming and animation nightmare that would cause allowing the user to totally customize the fighting style from some universal movelist.

I want to make an appeal to what you have already observed but may not realize yet.

One of the signs of greatness is to be able to improvise and find your own fighting identity within a set of structured rules and styles. Anderson Silva does Muay Thai and so do a lot of other MMA fighters. But nobody does Muay Thai like Anderson. He didn't have to invent his own fighting style in order to improvise and create a unique fighting identity. He doesn't have any magic moves, or meta-muay-thay techniques.

Sure everybody in Muay Thai has the knee, has the clinch, etc, but nobody puts it together the same way Anderson does, his timing, his angles, his choice of when and how are his way of creating his own style within the style that he has to work with.

I know you think that because I disagree, I don't understand what you mean, but I do. I actually use the feel the same way
when I first started my martial arts training.

I'm making a subtle point here, but if you're open minded you'll see it. The movelist available to Mohammed Ali, and Joe Frasier were pretty much the same, but each man had his own improvisation within that movelist, his own style, his own timing, choices for when to throw right, right, left, his own ring management etc. Even though they pretty much had the same movelist, they certainly looked like they had totally different fight styles

I love UFC2009 its an awesome fighter. Like virtua fighter it is a masterpiece. If you take the time to really learn the options and possibilities at any given time within the alloted
couple of styles a fighter may have, you will find out there is more than enough room for you to create a totally unique fighting style within the movelists that you have. I know that sounds tricky, but the opportunity to totally improvise is there and within the structured movelist you have. I use a combination of Judo and MuayThai you could create a fighter with the same two styles, but I guarantee you, you will not fight like me, and you would not win like me, because my choice in combos, my timing of when and where to do take downs, or use the clinch, or the knee, etc are totally unique to me. I put them together in a mix according to the music in my head. You would have to study me for many many fights before you could figure out my total mind game.


In that way my fighting style is unique as unique if I had picked the moves myself, even if I'm restricted to the movelists for the Muay Thai/Judo combination, my permutations and combinations and timing, are my own genetic creations

The other point is based on what happens in reality with respect to coming up with your own style. The styles that have made it to the octagon are true and tried and have survived thousands of rounds and tests. They work, they produce world champions. If you learn them, they can actually save your life, or the life of a loved one. On the other hand some made up style that you've popped up with would probably set you
up for an old fashioned arse whoopin. Ordinarily a new style may rise out of evolved mastery of some old style, but you have to pay homage to the old styles first. As a master martial artist you might walk into the octagon with some new moves or style that no one has ever seen b4, but that would only be after you've made a name for yourself within the framework of known fighting styles. Outside of that it would be some freaky
situation.

True genius is the ability to work within the given movelist and create something totally new, unique, and brutal
that ability is one of the things that divides the true virtuoso from a mere amateur

And I still play Def Jam fight for new york. There is actually a similarity with UFC undisputed in that you pick a couple of fighting styles and they produce your ultimate movelists. But the move lists of Def Jam is nowhere near as large as for UFC 2009, that's why watching two fighters with the same two styles
you would see a great deal of redundancy. I like Def Jam, but its not in the same league as UFC undisputed.

 

It shows? It is generally considered that 25 to 33 are the best physical years a male will have.
I would say you should pick a "base" style, but can expand on it ala GSP or hell, even Chuck. Chuck Liddell was a wrestler originally. Watch some of his fights in IVC.

 

Shadow, sometimes the points get lost in my long posts. But
here they are again.


1) I'm big Machida fan, I've seen probably all of his fights.
and I can tell the difference between him now and when he
was younger.

2) UFC 2009 already allows for multiple styles. Which I
support. I think 2 - 3 styles is realistic

3) I'm against the idea of any fighter regardless of style
being able to use any move from any movelist of any
other style. I think that defeats the idea of 'style'
in the first place.

4) I'm against the idea of being able to totally customize
a fighter's style from a universal movelist that is
made from all the styles in the game.


5) I'm for the idea of being able to totally customize a
a fighter's movelist if the moves are taken from a single
style. For example: If your judo fighter can only have
30 moves and there are 200 judo moves in the judo
movelist, then by all means pick the 30 from the 200.
Or if you have two base styles Kickboxing and and
wrestling being able to pick some moves from the wrestling
movelist and some from the kickboxing move list. But
if you are a kickboxer and wrestler, you should not be
able to pick moves from Judo, BJJ, Muay Thai, etc.


6) True genius is the ability to work within the given
movelist and create something totally new, unique,
and brutal that ability is one of the things
that divides the true virtuoso from a mere amateur


Maybe Sega could take a note from THQ and EA Sports on how to deal with fight game fans. THQ lets there customer's know whats in the future for their fight game franchise. EA sports is on record for saying the a they will alternate the release o f each new Fight Night and MMA game. The fanbase for the THQ fighter and the EA fighter now know what to expect for the future of their games.

Sega's "we have no plans at this time" is horrible. Does that mean although we might have plans for a new version in the future "we have no plans at this time" Or does it mean since the sales of VF were so low "we have no plans at this time" for a new version. Or does it mean we haven't really given it any thought "we have no plans at this time for a new version.
In either case the VF fanbase has no clue about the future of the franchise because Sega "has no plans at this time" for a future version.

Thank you THQ for keepin us informed about UFC Undisputed

 

And here was me thinking the point of mixed martial arts was to find what was best for you from a multitude of different disciplines and adding them to your repertoire. Not picking one style and just using that and nothing else.

 

I think what you're saying is probably true of what MMA will one day be like, when up-and-coming fighters learn a style of fighting called, "MMA." The reality though is that most fighters come from one particular background, and with some exceptions, almost always branch out and build a fighting style around that background. I could easily imagine (this is not what we're doing) having players select one background - since we're talking about the UFC, I'll say Freestyle Wrestling - which would dictate their starting move set and skill propensities. Now, Undisputed is about giving players a lot of options, so we couldn't do this, but imagine if only wrestlers started out with a double leg takedown, for instance, but on the flip side they all had really low starting submission and striking stats. Then throughout their careers, they could continue to develop their wrestling skills (think Chael Sonnen), maybe even at a diminished "cost," or they could branch out and learn some striking skills (Koscheck, Rampage, Rashad, etc.) at a higher "cost." I feel that this would actually replicate the real path most MMA fighters take more so than the idealized, "pick a little bit of something from everything and become proficient in them all equally" version of MMA that only a very small percentage of real fighters actually do.

 

That would actually be a really cool way to emulate progression based on your own natural skill set.

It's a shame Bruce Lee isn't around to see this. It's pretty much his philosphy in action.

 

Exactly!!! SixTwo that is the reality.

but UFC 2009 undisputed has a pretty nice compromise. Which I think is beautiful. I hope THQ hasn't got rid of it.

In the career mode you pick a couple of base styles and you develop those styles up to level 3 (maybe 4). I chose Muay Thai and Judo the first time around. I got my Muay Thai to level 3 and Judo to level 2 and that really reflected my competency level with the two styles. I then went through career mode again with another fighter same two styles got both
up to 3. I think that really really works.

Allowing a fighter to start out with the basic movesets of a couple of styles and then through training learn more advanced skills is a damn good simulation (please THQ keep this!) This is also another way to distinguish (like in real life) those that have put in the time, vs those that didn't.

If two guys with CAF face each other online and they have the exact same styles but one of the guys couldn't get either style to level 3 or 4, then the guy that could should be rewarded with advanced moves


@Seidon actually that's not quite the point of mixed martial arts. a quick visit to the MMA wiki might be useful in this case. But in a nutshell MMA answers the age-old-question of
what would happen if style X went up against style Y in a fight? At one time in tournament history you had judo vs judo, karate vs karate, sumo vs sumo, kung fu vs kung fu, wrestling vs wrestling, boxing vs boxing etc. And as has always been in the back of the tournament consciousness, the question of what would win between a boxer and a sumo? who would triump between karate stylist and judo stylist? could kung fu beat wrestling etc.

Well the history of MMA is all about answering that question. And the styles that are found in the UFC are among those that survived the tests. There's a reason you don't see Sumo and Kung fu going against Matt Hughes, Anderson Silva, Brandon Vera, etc. And trust me the world champions didn't play Buffet with fighting styles. Like SixTwo says they start out with one or two base disciplines and then grow in those disciplines over time, and through trial by fire.

What's so kewl about UFC 2009 Undisputed, is that they found a simulation for that process that works (more or less) it could stand a tweek here, or tweek there, but basically the career mode in UFC 2009 does that part right.

Yeah my friend Mixed Martial Arts captures the idea of
what happens when a kickboxer meets a wrestler, or a MuayThai stylist meets a boxer. The "mixed" part MMA is more about the differences between the competitors style. Not so much the idea of one guy having multiple styles and then "mixing" them up in a fight

 

Didn't Dana White himself refer to Bruce Lee as the father of MMA?

Bruce lee's philosophy wasn't about pitting martial arts against one another, it was taking the best from each in order to hone your own fighting style.

 

MMA is finding what is best for you. Why you have vitor belfort training karate even after being a black belt in mma, world class boxing, very good wrestling.

 

I don't want to start a war or get too off-topic or anything, but if he really had "world class boxing," he'd be a professional boxer earning exponentially more money in that sport, don't you think?

MMA fighters really are typically generalists; good at one thing (great even) and competent at everything else. I think the best grapplers in the world who want to make money at it are probably in MMA. The best strikers in the world are in other sports.

 

MMA fighters, 90%, love to fight mma and that is why they do it.

 

Fair enough Seidon.,.

The good thing about UFC 2009 Undisputed is it is good enough to be able to argue about. If it were a crappy game, then none of us would spend time talking about it. The fact that we go back and forth over the merits means that its a good game and will have longevity.

I hope they add a little flexibility to the style selection for your sake but 4 me the style selection is kewl the way it is. If they allowed you to save replays in vs and in single player and kept statistics separate between different fighters in different weight classes for player 1 and player 2, it'd be pretty close to a perfect game.

 

I never really played the game to be honest. Tried it once and wasn't impressed.

I was just arguing the ideals of mixed martial arts.

 

LMAO Then UR missing a good game

 

I'll tell you what happened when I played.

I picked Brock Lesnar and won with 1 punch.

That's when I stopped playing.

 

That is why you should play. Because in a fight, it can end with ONE punch.

 

I honestly did not like UFC undisputed 09. I thought the animations were kinda stiff, all the characters fought a little too similar, all had the same fighting stance, create a fighter mode sucked, and the game play did not feel very fluid to me. Hope 2010 is better.

This is all my opinion though, I know a lot of people enjoyed this game.