Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Just want to add a note that f+k,k,p,p will combo if the first hit staggers. But the knee will only stagger for opponent who is crouching + block.

 

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A most admirable string of posts...

She's my 3rd fav character [though my quest stats has her being my most played, I'm a fan of Aoi's bone crunching animations but this girl's hotness and BJJ / MMA 'look' to her moves has more of my attention]

Perhaps with more knowledge and practice with this thread, she'll be my new substitute?

[sorry, Akira is and always will be the VF character I'd love to kill with. hitting people with simple boring but Ungodly damaging single hits is my zone... ^_^]

 

How about resurrecting this thread to take into consideration Ver.C changes?

I could start by proposing that the removal of special high followups toned down greatly OS . On the contrary, the addition of crouch stagger improved (the already excellent imho) OS .

As far as DS is concerned, Jeneric has already pointed out that is now actually more than useful

So how about it, anybody else care to offer their comments/top tens?

 

what should I use after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif hits???

 

That's a good question, i always wonder about that myself. I mean, if the move counterhits/sabakis you're at +4 and then her knee which comes out at 15 frames should beat every move the opponent throws at you, unless it's one of those 10-frame jabbers.


But on simple hit Vane's at +2, and considering her moves are kinda slow from DS i don't see what you're supposed to do


EDIT: realised 10 frame jabs beat the knee

 

+2 is a good situation to use an OM P, it wil beat both LP and P in that sitaution if done right.
Another good flowchart is doing another 1P for the same reasons.

 

Even though i've seen vids where other vanessa players do exactly that, still, I keep feeling like a TOTAL n00b for spamming the same move two or threee times to stop punch happy people.

OM sounds lke a good idea, i don't think people will try to throw vanessa after *she* hits *them*.

 

The (while standing) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a good option in here.

 

I think I played your Vanessa a couple days ago online with my Akira. You whooped my ass at least 3 times, good games man! You're Vanessa is a handfull!

 

lots of scrubby advice, lol

 

While trying to compile my own top ten, due to lacking internet access i was rummaging through some of my old CDs for frame data and i've stumbled across some ver.B Vanessa info posted by the artist formerly known as Sebo (now CGB_spender). While not exactly up to date (it's been two years now, plus we've moved up to ver.C) i believe new players are entitled to all the information they can find - i know this advice helped me a lot back then In hommage of his great effort for the community, i'm taking the liberty of reposting Sebo's DS Encyclopedia:

 

Once again, this analysis of ver.B DS is made by Sebo not me. I just happened to have archived the thread in pdf format sometime around august 2007. All i did was copy-paste the text and transcribe arrows and buttons. Everything else, including funny remarks i have kept intact.

 

VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

...and, as hinted, this is my own take on the subject

First of all, i apologize for resuscitating an old thread but i had some internet-free time in my hands and i spent some of it contemplating VF. I thus took the liberty of doing a short analysis of Vanessa's moveset. While I do not presume to juxtapose my humble opinion with that of the hardened VF veterans posting above, an overhaul was in order because a) we have since moved from ver.B to ver.C; b) we've all had more time to playtest.

As expected from anything vane-related, my analysis is broken down in two parts, DS and OS. Before i tire you with the actual lists themselves, let me present the sorting criteria i used:

Spoiler: sorting criteria

Key Moves: simply put, these moves win games. They are what a Vanessa player should aim for. They should receive top priority at all times.

Bread-and-Butter a.k.a. Staple Moves: these are low risk/low reward moves. While they will eventually win games for vane on their own, they are better used for setting up key moves. Think of them as the glue that holds vane's gameplay together.

Situational Moves: these moves are either slow or punishable. They are high risk/high reward and meant to be used only under specific situations. While not mandatory, judicious use can really turn the game around for vane.

OK/Decent Moves: these moves are not necessarily bad, it's just that a Vanessa player will often realize he's won a game without having to fall back to using them. Mastering the small nuances that justify that use is probably the hardest part of learning to play Vanessa.

Redundant Moves: these moves either suffer from a major flaw or they are eclipsed by other moves that serve the same function better

Conveniently enough, Key and Staple moves together can double as a makeshift top-ten. As usual, feel free to comment, disagree or even compile your own analysis! Vane's moveset is huge and i've yet to master it, i'm sure there's lots of mistakes, plus i'm expecting an uproar about intruder hook

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Spoiler: Key DS Moves

WS : Tied for fastest mid in the game. Needs good input skills to be buffered. Fast, fuzzy safe, stagger on CH. Use to interrupt, poke, nitaku, punish*.

: Staple due to DS lacking a mid launcher. The hit-throw may whiff at long range. Needs CD-fuzzy up close. Long reach, pushback, hit-throw on hit. Use to poke, nitaku, space, damage.

: Demoralizing float for 70 dmg & oki, on any hit, on any stance. Semicircular (stomach), fuzzy safe, head crumple on hit, sober but short range, high. Use to gamble, DAMAGE, sober.

: Instant crouching without the risk of getting CH. Style points! Advances forward, anti-throw, anti-high*, sabaki vs LP but no damage. Use to interrupt, RN, pressure, taunt.

Throws: HCF = good dmg, safe; B = imba dmg; D = ok dmg, rarely broken, safe; DB = situational; N = bad. Anti-guard but high, short range. Use to nitaku, punish.

Spoiler: Bread-and-Butter DS Moves

string: 2f faster than VF4evo. Lacks p,k but staple by default. Fast, advances forward, advantage on block, nitaku on CH but high, chip damage. Use to poke, interrupt, pressure, punish.

: Instant crouching. Staple by default due to DS lacking another move that gives +7 on CH. Fast, anti-throw, anti-high, fuzzy safe, nitaku on CH but short range, low*, chip damage. Use to poke, interrupt, RN, nitaku*.

: Punishes (otherwise safe) -9f shoulders/knees! Abare at your own risk. Don't expect much on CH. Fast, even on block but short range, high, chip damage. Use to interrupt, punish*, pressure, taunt.

: Subs for df+k+g at close range. Crouchguard stagger. Floor scrape (?), fuzzy safe, hit-throw on CH but short range. Use to poke, nitaku, floor scrape (?).

: Feared as the best sidekick in the game. Subs for df+k+g at long range. Long reach, advances forward, pushback, fuzzy safe, crouch stagger, crumple on Side CH, chargeable. Use to poke, nitaku, space, crouch stagger, wall stagger, oki, brainfuck*.

: Shuts down stepping & spacing. -9 on block but usually safe by pushback. SUPER REPLAY! Long reach, advances forward, pushback, anti-sabaki, circular, down on hit but slow. Use to gamble, space, pressure, track, knockdown, oki.

: Hand Hold = best risk/reward ratio in the game. Staple despite being easier to escape than VF4evo. Anti-HP/MP, anti-CH, anti-0f-throw but no damage. Use to interrupt.

Spoiler: Situational DS Moves

: A moral player's nightmare. The followup is positive on block. Spam until ducked. Long reach (?), semicircular (stomach), sabaki vs HP/MP/HE/EL/HK, down on CH but slow, high. Use to abare, gamble, damage, pressure.

: Better polish your yomi for this move because the sabaki conditions are quite restrictive Sabaki vs MK/SK/KN, slam on CH but SLOW, high. Use to abare, gamble, damage.

OM : Situational by definition. Good range for an OM attack. Evasive, advances forward, long reach, nitaku on CH*, crumple on side CH but slow, throw punishable. Use to abare*, gamble, risk, damage.

: Useful vs opponents with mid sabaki/reversals. Needs hitchecking. Anti-throw, combo on CH (slam) but low, elbow punishable. Use to nitaku*, RN, risk, damage.

: Goes BT for BT p+k mixups & style points. Don't get back crumpled Evasive*, long reach, anti-throw but CH counts as backhit. Use to nitaku, RN, risk, space, brainfuck*.

/ : Some of the drawbacks can be avoided at long range. VF4evo version was semicircular though Evasive*, long reach, anti-throw, anti-high but low, elbow punishable*, chip damage. Use to RN, risk, space.

: Useful when you anticipating jab abare or evade. Don't expect anything on CH. Anti-throw, anti-high, circular but low, KNEE PUNISHABLE. Use to RN, risk, track, wall stagger (?).

: Crushes throws & lows from +2. Universal p;DF+k floats. CD-fuzzy safe. Don't get CH in the air Long reach, advances forward, anti-low*, down on hit (wall splat) but SLOW, CH counts as airhit. Use to gamble, RN*, risk, damage, wall splat.

: Used to pressure the opponent into blocking since it gives excellent frames on hit or block. Advances forward, pushback, advantage on block, nitaku on hit, sober but SLOW. Use to gamble, pressure, wall stagger, oki, sober.

Low Throws: DF = imba damage, safe; D = good damage, safe. Anti-fuzzy-guard but low, short range. Use to gamble, punish.

Spoiler: OK DS Moves

: Combine with pushback or long reach moves to avoid hasty retaliations. Evasive but no damage. Use to space.

OM : The evasive properties of OM attacks are hitbox based & vane seems to double hers during this move Evasive, advances forward, fuzzy safe, nitaku on CH, stagger on side CH (?) but slow, chip damage. Use to abare*, gamble, pressure.

: Enables DS to stop some strings. Abare at your own risk. Don't expect much on CH. Anti-high, anti-special-mid, sabaki vs LP/LK/SW, floor scrape (?) but chip damage. Use to abare, nitaku, floor scrape (?).

: Shuts down Shun, Eileen & Lion shenanigans. CD-fuzzy safe. Greatly improved from VF4evo. Long reach, floor scrape, combo on CH (sideturn). Use to nitaku, FLOOR SCRAPE.

string: DS vane's 2nd longest string after pppk. Anti-sidestep. Also greatly improved compared to VF4evo. Semicircular (back), combo on CH, sober. Use to nitaku, track, sober.

: The other DS anti-sidestep. Inconsistent: sometimes ducks highs, sometimes combos Semicircular (stomach), combo on hit*, crouch stagger. Use to nitaku, track, crouch stagger.

: Decent frames, decent followups. Fuzzy safe, combo on hit. Use to nitaku, pressure, wall stagger.

WS : CD-fuzzy safe, closed stance float, becomes evasive from a crouchbackdash. Long reach, down (wall splat) on CH. Use to gamble, space, pressure.

: 5 active frames & deceptive reach. Medium risk medium reward. CD-fuzzy safe. Long reach, slam on hit but slow. Use to gamble, damage, oki.

Spoiler: Redundant DS Moves

: Bad Risk/Reward ratio. Overshadowed by b+k+g for RN & db+k+g for low crushing. Anti-throw, anti-low, anti-sabaki, fuzzy safe, slam on hit but slow, short range, CH counts as airhit. Use to abare, RN, risk, damage, taunt.

: Elbow Punishable followup = needs serious hitchecking. Overshadowed by b,f+k. Sabaki vs HP/HK, combo on hit (slam) but SLOW. Use to abare, gamble, damage.

DM : Bad Risk/Reward ratio. Overshadowed by evade > df+p+k/df+k+g/OM. Evasive, long reach, circular but elbow punishable*. Use to abare, gamble, risk, track.

: Its only purpose is to hinder buffered WR p inputs CD-fuzzy safe. Overshadowed by k. Floor scrape, combo on hit. Use to nitaku, floor scrape.

: Built-in backdash, CD-fuzzy safe. DS risk/reward ratio not worth it. Overshadowed by B. Evasive, stomach crumple on hit, chargeable, cancelable but SLUGGISH. Use to gamble, damage, space, brainfuck*.

: Very slow, very risky, very rewarding. Spam until ducked. Overshadowed by f,f+k. Long reach, advances forward, circular, stagger on block, nitaku* on hit, sober but SLUGGISH, high*, CH counts as airhit. Use to gamble, pressure, track, oki, sober, brainfuck.

: Overshadowed by b+p. Advances forward, advantage on block, nitaku on CH but SLUGGISH. Use to gamble, pressure.

/ : Lost most evasive properties they had in VF4evo. Getting sidehit in VF5 hurts Evasive, semicircular (u/d), stomach crumple on CH but slow, short range, jab punishable, CH counts as sidehit. Use to abare, gamble, risk*, damage.

/ : Same as intruder hook only it's retarded slow to boot! Evasive, circular, head crumple on hit but SLUGGISH, high*, short range, jab punishable, CH counts as sidehit. Use to abare, gamble, risk*, damage, track.

/ : Lost its VF4evo hit throw while keeping NEGATIVE FRAMES on CH?! Worst move in the game. Evasive, circular but SLOW, short range, chip damage. Use to abare, gamble, risk*, space, track, humiliate.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Spoiler: Key OS Moves

: CD-fuzzy safe, elbow class, demoralizing face smash, SUPER REPLAY! Fast, slam on hit, sober but high. Use to poke, punish, damage, sober.

: Crouchguard stagger, surprisingly few total frames. Use after connecting with the opponent. Floor scrape, fuzzy safe, hit-throw on CH but short range. Use to poke, nitaku, pressure, damage, floor scrape.

: Trades the range, safety & oki of DS df+k+g for more damage. Hit-throw on hit but short range. Use to nitaku, damage.

Intruder Step: Tech-crouch, safe options, can duck highs, access to the only un-sabakiable OS move besides k+g. Style points! Advances forward, anti-high* but no damage. Use to pressure, oki, brainfuck.

Throws: DF,DF = ok dmg, safe; HCF = good dmg; B = dmg potential; CATCH = situational; N = bad. Anti-guard but high, short range. Use to nitaku, punish.

Spoiler: Bread-and-Butter OS Moves

string: Faster than VF4evo, the string now comes in 3 flavors! Subs for f+p+k at small advantage. Fast, advances forward, advantage on block, combo on hit, nitaku on CH but high. Use to poke, interrupt, pressure, punish.

: Lacking DS sabaki & interrupts, OS has to rely more on low punch in order to interrupt the opponent. Fast, anti-throw, anti-high, fuzzy safe, nitaku on CH but short range, low*, chip damage. Use to poke, RN, interrupt, nitaku*.

string: f+p,pkg combo & +1 on block. Subs for b,f+k at small advantage. Fast, fuzzy safe, combo on hit, nitaku on CH, crouch stagger but short range. Use to poke, nitaku, pressure, punish*, crouch stagger.

string: Followups include pkg backhand, safe hmm string & IS cancel! Subs for f+p at medium-long range. Floor scrape, fuzzy safe, combo on hit. Use to poke, nitaku, pressure, floor scrape, oki.

: Solid hitbox, crouchguard stagger, takedown cancel, delayable followups, tad unsafe though Advances forward, floor scrape, combo on hit, cancelable. Use to nitaku, pressure, FLOOR SCRAPE, oki, brainfuck*.

DM : Loses to crouching/tech-crouching/jumping/hoping attacks & low/delayed throws. Still worth it Evasive, anti-high*, anti-throw*, anti-guard but high, punishable. Use to abare, RN*, gamble, risk, damage.

Spoiler: Situational OS Moves

: Crushes highs & throws from -8. Becomes highly evasive from a backdash. Spam until punished. Advances forward, anti-throw*, anti-high*, floor scrape (?), slam on hit, sober but throw punishable. Use to abare, RN*, gamble, risk, damage, floor scrape (?), sober.

string: Slow & duckable but the damage & oki is worth it. Useful vs sabaki/reversals. Needs hitchecking. Anti-throw, combo on CH (knockdown) but low, elbow punishable. Use to nitaku*, RN, risk, knockdown.

: Basic high risk high reward move. Crushes throws & special lows from +2. Frustrating hitbox Anti-throw*, anti-low*, down on hit but elbow punishable, CH counts as airhit. Use to nitaku, RN*, risk, DAMAGE.

: Anti-sidestep. CD-fuzzy safe, demoralizing head crumple, G-cancellable, major style points! Long reach (?), semicircular (stomach), head crumple on CH, cancelable but high*. Use to nitaku*, gamble, damage, track, brainfuck*, oki.

: The other OS anti-sidestep. Becomes a lot safer at long range than its frames might otherwise suggest. Long reach, anti-throw, semicircular (back), hit-throw on CH but slow, low, elbow punishable*. Use to gamble, RN, risk, damage, track, wall stagger (?), oki.

: Crushes throws from +2. Style points! Don't get CH in the air Advances towards, anti-throw*, advantage on block, down on hit but slow, high, CH counts as airhit. Use to gamble, RN*, pressure, damage, oki.

: Same as DS however OS floats do WAY more damage! Evasive, stomach crumple on hit, chargeable, cancelable but SLUGGISH. Use to gamble, DAMAGE, space, brainfuck*.

: Same as DS however a) OS has 14 frame followups b) it's vane's unique full circular move from OS! Long reach, advances forward, circular, stagger on block, nitaku* on hit, sober but SLUGGISH, high, CH counts as airhit. Use to gamble, pressure, track, oki, sober, brainfuck.

: Same as DS, a move you usually expect your opponent to block. Advances forward, pushback, advantage on block, nitaku* on hit, sober but SLOW. Use to gamble, pressure, wall stagger, oki, sober, brainfuck.

: Telegraphing "mixups" with f,f+p+k lancer. Sometimes ducks under highs. Advances forward, anti-high*, fuzzy safe, down (wall splat) & combo on hit but SLUGGISH. Use to gamble, knockdown, wall splat, brainfuck, oki.

hcf : Essentially 3 moves in 1. Sometimes ducks under highs. Style points! Even on block, down on hit, chargeable but slow. Use to gamble, brainfuck*.

Low Throws: DF = good damage, safe; D = minor damage, pressure, safe. Anti-fuzzy-guard but low, short range. Use to gamble, punish.

Spoiler: OK OS Moves

: Combine with pushback or long reach moves to avoid hasty retaliations. Evasive but no damage. Use to space.

string: Stylish alternative to f+p+k, combos +2 on block, +6 on hit. Semicircular (stomach), advantage on block (jails?), combo on hit, nitaku on CH but high. Use to poke, pressure, track.

WS : Trades speed for (redundant) safety compared to the DS version. Fuzzy safe, stagger on CH but short range (?). Use to poke, nitaku, pressure.

: SUPER REPLAY! Shoves people around. Just don't expect anything fancy on CH Advances forward, pushback, crumple on side CH. Use to poke, nitaku, pressure, wall stagger.

OM : Can be used in tandem with f,f+p to herd opponents towards the edge of the ring. Evasive, advances forward, fuzzy safe, nitaku on CH, stagger on side CH (?) but slow, chip damage. Use to abare*, gamble, pressure, oki.

: Crushes highs at the later frames (8-12). CD-fuzzy safe. Outshines b,f+k if you can't nail the hit-throw. Anti-high*, down on CH but short range. Use to abare, nitaku, damage, taunt.

: CD-fuzzy safe, fastest way to Intruder Step! Pushback cancels nitaku on CH Frustrating hitbox Long reach, pushback, crouch stagger, cancelable. Use to nitaku, space, crouch stagger, oki, brainfuck*.

: Same as DS, use to space or in okizeme. Long reach, slam on hit but slow. Use to gamble, damage, oki.

Spoiler: Redundant OS Moves

: Decent frames and followups. Overshadowed by df+k. Fuzzy safe, combo on hit. Use to poke, nitaku, pressure, wall stagger (?).

OM : OM attacks are hitbox based and this one's virtually non-existant = Bad Risk/Reward ratio. Evasive, advances forward, nitaku on hit, crumple on side CH but slow, short range, throw punishable. Use to abare*, gamble, risk, damage.

WS : CD-fuzzy safe, finicky floats. Overshadowed by WR p. Chin crumple on CH but short range. Use to nitaku, floor scrape (?).

string: CD-fuzzy safe. Demoralizing but only combos on crouchguard & side CH.. Use to nitaku, pressure, floor scrape (?).

: CD-fuzzy safe. Overshadowed by df+p. Down & combo on CH. Use to gamble, pressure, damage.

: Same as DS however OS floats are weight/stance/distance specific Long reach, advances forward, anti-low*, down on hit (wall splat) but SLOW, CH counts as airhit. Use to gamble, RN*, risk, knockdown, wall splat.

: A slow & high poke. Only exists to be cancelled into takedown lancer. Semicircular (back), fuzzy safe, cancelable but high, chip damage. Use to brainfuck*.

string: A slow & high poke. About as useful as eileen's bra. Semicircular (stomach), fuzzy safe, combo on CH, sober but high. Use to "pressure", sober.

/ : Less range/speed than DS. "Divided by Zero" Risk/Reward ratio. Anti-throw, anti-high but low, elbow punishable, chip damage. Use to RN, risk.

: Commencing shin kicking operation! Advances forward, anti-throw, fuzzy safe, hit-throw on hit but SLUGGISH, low. Use to RN, damage, brainfuck, humiliate.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Thats a pretty large guide, you could have made it its own thread

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

How come no one told me DS WS p was 13 frames? Jerks.

Erdraug I'm pretty sure you can get 3k+g p+g off of a 43p+k sabaki.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Good stuff. I would just have to disagree with your views on DS 1p.
That move has crazy options. On hit you can set up for ws+p, throw, or any mid move to keep your offence going. And it throw clashes. I'd say this move is a moral players nightmare and it really does win matches cause your opponents bread and butter moves or safe pokes to win the match are forced to change. The only draw back is that it's -8 on block, but you are in DS so -8 means nothing.
1p is more than just an okay move.