Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Manji, dunno the thread was already there and it sort of felt natural

Cozby, you know me, i just hit up+punch when any slam move connects, when it comes to combos and floats more complicates than that i'm definetly not the man to ask

Mista_Tee, well, i certainly understand where you're coming from, DS has inspired a thread of its own after all I'm just not that fond of the move myself because i find that 18 dmg and +4 are just not worth the risk of getting CH by a moral player's elbow. That's why i sorted it under the OK moves and not under the situational moves, because, it won't exactly turn the game around for me. I tend to substitute it with fuzzy/low guard, DS , DS . The first two options both beat highs and lows, the first option is less risky but has less reward (no damage, frames depending on the move blocked/ducked but no fear of getting CH) the second one is riskier but offers a far greater reward (still evades highs and throws but only beats low punch, when it does though it's for 70 damage not 18), the third option i even riskier but covers the remaining lows and again offers greater reward than db+p (only beats normal low attacks, universal p,DF+k floats). Having these options at my disposal when playing from DS i find myself not having to use db+p that much, i only use it to stop an opponent's low-high followup mid-string (like jacky's elbow, punch, low kick or wolf's screw hook). Once again though, i understand your point of view since the existance of the move alone apparently scares many vf players

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

,

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

You see I don't agree with this statement. I think this move is worth using no matter the consequences whenever you like. Vanessa has ways to get big damage, but she doesn't have something to the equivalent of Perfect giant swing, or Jeffry's Knee. So I believe the best way to put fear into your opponent is to use almost abuse Vanessa's tools to always try and keep a situation in your favor. With all that being said you can't forget the pure amazing stats of DS . Between that move and DS , I think they're both game-changers completely. The speed of the move really isn't a big problem if you're using it right to really keep your opponent frustrated and locked down.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

DS is great move to use against people who fail at adapting.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Chefboy, like i've told Mistah_Tee above, i've heard those arguments before. I encourage you to read over the 1P thread once again and realize that, concerning that particular move, VF players are divided into 2 camps: those who think it's broken and those who think it's not. After a lengthy discussion, both in that thread and in many, many, many other threads, the only conclusion VFdc has reached is that people in one camp will not be convinced by arguments from the other side. I unfortunately stand with those that believe that defensive elbow is not broken, but rather a move whose disadvantages balance out the advantages. I do not wish to ironically state that, ok you're right, OMG, 1P BROKEN! because i honestly, truly do not believe it. So i reserve the right to be unmoved by your arguments in order to preserve the coherency of this thread. I can only encourage fellow vanessa players to keep using .

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

After seeing Alex MD use OS a lot more than i expected in the recent Australian exhibition matches i've been thinking about how my past evaluation of this move.

The best case scenario for is to net a crouch stagger; however due to the pushback AFAIK the only moves that can connect are and which are 16f (or more due to the f,f motion) and 20f respectively, and thus easy to struggle.

In paper is superior to, let's say OS , because it does something no other OS move does. However i've yet to encounter someone who puts it to good use consistently and my own experiences are limited: i only use it to push my opponents back or to cancel into Intruder Step.

Speaking of OS : it knocks down on CH. No big deal, so does OS which is faster. However, contrary to it has a followup, making it harder to properly defend or evade against it. And speaking of the followup, is the only OS only mid-mid string that is not punishable. So maybe not completely redundant?

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

I don't understand why it's that way. If someone spams make them eat a sabaki. I've had countless Vanessa players take me for a fool and spam that move and started panicking after eating several of Aoi's +. No sabaki? Evade or backdash. In short, every move has a 'weakness' so exploit it.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

4k is also usefull to get wall and back staggers. 1p elbow sabaki is a great move, in perfect situations you low throw afterwards, but therd isnt much rewards for landing that move. +4 doesnt amount to much in this game. Against a spammy opp, you can try 2p after elbow sabaki to get +8. But with that said, if you anticipate the low move, just 2p and low throw.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Very true. Though a good Vanessa would utilize her huge array of other moves rather than resort to . Also many players should keep in mind that if you are at advantage against Vanessa there's a significant chance that a smart Vanessa player will abare with . If anything we should be elbow prods against Vanessa players XD

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

...or just use knees that launch, you take away Vanessa's two best sabakis as well as her reversals + you make her fly for some good damage.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Kingofcarnage: i know, but my problem is that OS causes a longer wall stagger, has comparable range, does 2 more damage and is 2 frames faster

Same goes for back stagger (and side crumple btw). In fact i remember that in your livespace you once posted a vid vs Kage where you 1/2 of his lifebar with OS back stagger You wouldn't be able to do that with !

The way i see it OS has too much pushback, to the point that vanessa has very limited options after it hits; or maybe the pushback is OK, it's just that the move doesn't advance at all Anyway, OS has just enough pushback to prevent vanessa from getting thrown when it's blocked but not too much, enabling vanessa to keep up the offensive if it connects.

PS: i tried to find the video but MS has apparently moved their service to Wordpress and your video is no longer available.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Variety man. If you want to get into your opponents head, use as many moves and set ups as possible. = freeze

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Variety is the spice of life! In this case I have to say that 4k(os) against the wall is good on occasion to transition into intruder stance(that is the one that does that right? it's been forever since I played.) Against the wall It may be good, but cornered opponents tend to lash out if they feel they can get away with it, and I'm willing to bet most times you'll be hit out of the stance. If you're not going to transition into the stance then you might as well use 66p(os) because on hit or block you can do it again safely! No wall stagger the first time? do it again!

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

LOL! I Know wright! I usually evade and 66p again

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

How many frames does it take, to turn and guard in side turned situations? Such as Akira Shun and Jacky's 6pg 2 throws

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

3 frames.

Also Aoi's & Sarah's throws btw. Maybe even more characters.

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

i beleive they are also plus 4. This must be why i land p after hand grab +k. Its plus 10 making the p guaranteed. So after ppk, its either plus 1 or 0 after hand grab +k

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

been doing this for two years and never checked frames

 

Re: VF5c Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

I played again yesterday after a long time; now, maybe it was just the people i played against, dunno, but it seemed to be that DS is not that intimidating anymore. On the other hand using DS seems to force my opponents to stop in their tracks - the fear of getting side-turned by the followup i guess.

I feel like DS is under rated.

Also, i was looking through this thread again and one of my old posts struck me as odd. So i looked it up and confirmed that DS is +2 on sabaki hit. This is why loses to a second low punch after using to sabaki the first but not to a low punch after using to crush a jab.