VF: Final Tuned info

Aside from the whole memory card thing Ver. C to Evo imo was a great upgrade. Evo to ''Final Tuned'' aka Evo. Ver. C (so far) doesn't seem to bring out anything special to the table but a couple of new moves and items. And if the stages remain the same that'll be even more pathetic. It seems like Sega's trying to fuck ppl in the ass a la Capcom but I may be wrong, it's still too early to really judge... I guess.

 

As much as people would think Sega is all about perfecting/tuning/balancing virtua fighter, it's probably not the case here. It doesn't make money off players playing an older version of the game for a long time. No console conversion/ no hardware sells = no revenue.
Is FT gonna be disappointing, probably not. Is it nessasary? definitely not. I think most people would agree that Evo is the best VF since vf2, if not the best of all. Aside from brad / goh and vannessa being stupid characters, The game is great. But WTF is point of FT? more flashier? more air combos? more hit throws? What is the point? Start working on VF5 already. Sega should just admit they fucked up with brad and drop him period. The whole video looks retarded... one air combo after another. ZzZ, let's go MvC2! If they wanted to tune, they need to tune Jeff, Wolf or Shun or something. Not give Akira/Kage/Lau more powerful shit (the 3 which happen to be the most popular characters in game).
They did it right with Evo, that doesn't mean they couldn't fuck it up with FT.
And for all you fuckheads with the argument, "o, what's wrong with a new version anways" look at how many SFs are out there.

 

I replied to your post cause you whined about Akis new move (overpowered), kages new move (retarded) and your entire post seemed negative towards FT to begin with and you ended with a cry for Leis + on block.
More so cause Shang hasn't been in here crying yet cause he thinks Wolf gets a football helmet and nothing else and being confused (so you were just the token reply guy really as I'm suprised at the amount of whine that has suddenly been brought forward really more then anything else). Could have just aswell replied to Shadowdean if I wanted someone more appropriate as a pure target for the "Whiners!" remark so cheer up man.

I honestly couldn't give a crap if this was Evo Ver C personally, Evo was out 2 years ago and I believe / know this will be a better game and what will be played until VF5 is out (which is being developed for not existing hardware today). Sorry to all of you who expected laser katanas to "justify" buying this game (as a big enough upgrade) but then again they might add it later on and the game is freakin not finished yet. Sega is a buisness you know and they want money so I find some arguments about moral or ruining the franchise (wtf?) when releasing this "upgrade" 2 years after Evo was released to be hella funny. Nobody cares if you don't think it's worth it to buy / you feel violated as a consumer aslong as you buy it and if you don't and go on playing evo I will hold my applause / medal cause I certainly will get it ASAP.

Kisses & Hugs / KiwE

 

Cue whiner.

And there the main whiner showed himself (pure comedy in posting the same minut as I say that he hasn't yet), once again whining on behalf of his Wolf but masked under pretty words.

Was VF4 a better game then VF3? Yes. Was Evo a better game then VF4? Yes. Has Sega ever taken a wrong step when it comes to game balance so far in this series? No.

So you're whining about Aki/Lau/Kage being to strong in Evo while you're afraid of them fucking up the balance in FT cause they got Evo "right"? Whine about not things being added to the game to justifiy it as something new while whining about to big changes to Akira etc based on a 1min presentation against a black background? What are you Shang - retarded? Good thing you get a football helmet for your Wolf then.

Oh wait, just remembered you were the forum troll and all, good luck with that. Make a pic of yourself in the wolf helmet and put as your avatar instead lolz~!

Fuck all this negativity based on a shitty hand held cam footage with a token asian dude going "Ohhhhh.... OHH!" to every move allready. Comparing this to Segas "new direction" or "Oh no now it's like SF2!" is just lame and it's not like the home consol version would even be VF: FT (or final pwned as a 14year old tard with Counterstrike "Skills" / Shang would call it) version A.

Everybody who thinks Evo can't be improved on both cosmetically and gameplay wise are grumpy old men afraid of change.

/KiwE Make a pixx Lolz!!!~

 

I admire your love and dedication but don't let it blind you, there's more to this than being able to sabaki a low punch from ducking. I totally agree with you, ''it's a business'' but which side are you on : Sega's the seller, you're the buyer. In this case you're being sold an upgrade that really doesn't upgrade much. Evo was basically flawless, ''Final Tuned'' implies that it wasn't which is bullshit aka business. So far there isn't anything major that sets ''Final Tuned'' apart from Evo.

 

maybe they are going to add new characters or maybe they might bring back taka. who knows. but by sega perfecting VF 4 again just means that VF 5 will be that much sweeter. i mean i'd rather have a upgraded VF 4EVO than a rushed VF 5. come on think about it, they are going to have to tweak the game play even more significantly than they did for VF 4 EVO to VF 4 final tuned. we could only imagine how good VF 5 is going to be than.

 

maybe they are going to add new characters or maybe they might bring back taka. who knows. but by sega perfecting VF 4 again just means that VF 5 will be that much sweeter. i mean i'd rather have a upgraded VF 4EVO than a rushed VF 5. come on think about it, they are going to have to tweak the game play even more significantly than they did for VF 4 EVO to VF 4 final tuned. we could only imagine how good VF 5 is going to be.

 

Hey, if they just got the graphics up to Arcade standard on the home port and fixed the savesystem they'de have my money. Evo is not basicly flawless; it's just Taboo somehow to really discuss game balance cause it's the best balanced fightinggame out there imo. I mean, lots of the major enhancements that Evo really brought (trainingmode, quest, replays on the disc, tutorials etc) were just for the home version - let the game first hit even the arcades before complaining along the lines of if it's worth it please.
Just christ what did people really expect from the footage seriously? Half of the people seem to think this is all the changes there is when there aren't even backgrounds and the other half think that they show Aki/Kage/Lau cause they want to "imbalance them" even further and fail to understand basic logic that they show them cause they are the most popular ones. Hell, they probably even just show moves random that they are certain will make it into the final product at this point as there are months left of work.

 

Money is obviously the main factor, but Evo was far from flawless. There were things that needed to be tweaked, and some characters (brad and goh) felt incomplete. Hopefully, those issues are being addressed. Change is good.

All we've seen so far is some promotional video with no in-game footage, but people (not neccessarily you) are acting as if the entire VF world is falling apart. I think it's too early to pass judgement right now.

 

Well, there are still a lot of elements from 3 that I prefer over VF4/evo, like the stages, animation choices (limbs getting stuck), e button.
I could see spending money if new characters are added. That is a substantial upgrade.
I am not passing final judgment, merely posting my thoughts on what I have read/seen so far.

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Still very pessemisstic, but who knows ?

 

I think that the reason why they choose to release Final Tuned now, is because it’s going to be a couple of years down the road before we will see anything of VF5.

Seeing that the next generation home consoles will hit the marked maybe already next year, I don’t think that we will see VF5 before the end of 2006, maybe even as late as 2007 on consol.
So if they hadn’t released a “new†game it would have been over 4 years since the last VF game was released (If we assume that VF5 would be released in 07), which in these days is at least 1 year to much.
Even though it worked with VF3, I don’t think that it would be the same with Evolution.

So releasing Final Tuned in the summer of 04 in Japan, and then hopefully a homeport in 2005, it would take 2 new years for the next Virtua Fighter to be released, which makes sense, since lately a new VF game have been released approximately every one or two year.

So the timeline would look something like this.

Virtua Fighter 4 Hits Japanese Arcades – August 2001
Virtua Fighter 4 hits PS2 – January 31 2002
Virtua Fighter Evolution hits Japanese Arcades - summer of 2002
Virtua Fighter Evolution Home version released – March 2003
Virtua Fighter Final Tuned Hits Japanese Arcades - summer of 2004
Virtua Fighter Final Tuned Home version released – First half of 2005

Then Virtua Fighter 5 would be released in Japanese Arcades maybe around summer\winter time of 2006 and then homeport following 8-9 months later sometime in 2007.

 

KiwE hit the nail on the head on exactly what I was thinking in regards to some of the things I was reading here so far.

I think it's absolutely pathetic for anyone to start talking about the negativities of FT based on the things that we have seen so far, which is practically nothing. How can you judge a game based on a few seconds of 4 character showing a little new move behind a black background?! THat simply absurd! Honestly just how stupid is this conversation:

Person A: "I don't like how the series heading, the characters are now unbalance!!!

Person B: "The characters unbalanced? Wow you played the main game?"

Person A: "No, but the game unbalance though I can see it!"

Person B: "So you can tell from looking at a 2 min trailer showing 4 characters revealing a couple of new moves each in front of a black screen with each character having a 5 seconds appearance?"

Person A: "Well, I still don't like the way the series heading. Look at that move, it's activated like this!"

Person B: "Wow, you have access to the move listing of FT?"

Person A: "Urm, no... But it does activate like that.... And..."

Person B: "Tell me, did you like the big gap between VF3 to VF4 in terms of gameplay?"

Person A: "Yes.... and...

Person B: "And you like the gap between VF4 to VF4 Evo?"

Person A: "Yes, and..."

Person B: "And didn't VF had all these version A, B, C, X, Y and Z before in the other versions of VF but they didn't really announce it widely to the public?"

Person A: "That's true.... but..."

Person B: "Oh I know, but there's no new characters and new stages and stuff right?"

Person A: "Yeah!"

Person B: "But Sega only ANNOUNCED the game with a little teaser which practically didn't show much. So you mean to tell me that the series is going in the wrong direction after when you're loving all the VF to bits including playing VF4 Evo like no tomorrow?"

Person A: "But they're milking the series and?"

Person B: "DId that stopped you from playing VF4 Evo?"

Person A: "No.. But..."

Person B: "Do you prefer SEGA to do an FIFA like EA, which is to just simply change the name, show a couple of new stages and call it Virtua Fighter: THe Road to Virtua FIghter 5?"

Person A: "No of course not! I love Virtua Fighter 4 Evo and all the VF's. I really like them and it's what made me become a poster on this forum. But the memory card thing is a problem."

Person B: "What you played the PS2 version? Is it coming to PS2? DId Sega show us the home version or what that the arcade?"

Person A: "Urm.... Oh...

Person B: "Idiot..."


For those that complaining you can stick to what ever version of VF you enjoyed. I'm going to keep playing VF4Evo, then play FT when it's released with many other people then lose many heart beats when VF5 comes out even though VF5 isn't going to come out for awhile after FT which will thoroughly keep me occupied and very happy.

 

"In this case you're being sold an upgrade that really doesn't upgrade much. Evo was basically flawless, ''Final Tuned'' implies that it wasn't which is bullshit aka business. So far there isn't anything major that sets ''Final Tuned'' apart from Evo."

I have to say, I think this is probably the most empty, base-less statement made so far in this debate, but this applies to everyone who's been bitching: You're basing this on a VERY early glimpse into the game, shown with no backgrounds, no real fighting happening, none of the new modes shown, nothing of the new ranking system, a small handfull of the new items...

Another thing that's been mentioned on some Japanese sites is that the "System" is being upgraded ("New System"). People should remember that from VF4 to Evo, a lot of changes were made to the system, such as the "Chin KD", TR'able KDs, RO now posssible on many more stages, Breakable Ground Throws, TR'ing slams from the air, etc. I'm expecting similar changes will be made in FT, which DOES make it a substantial upgrade, with different play mechanics.

In addition, if you go back and read the about FIRST play tests that were done in Japan of Evo, there were SHITLOADS of moves that were in the game that are no longer there. ANY of the moves shown in this short, VERY EARLY, EXTREMELY LIMITED clip could be changed, or might not even make the final version. When the first footage of Evo was shown, people all moaned that Brad's animations, like the Lightning Elbow, were all rehashed from MT Vanessa (NONE of them are, except MAYBE his P+G), and that Goh's throws were re-done versions of Aoi's throws. Everyone bitched that Evo was going to be Tekken-ish bullshit... now it's "Flawless"!

Even if you were to assume that what we've seen is the complete changes made to characters shown (2-3 moves/character), with 15 characters in the game, you've still only seen about 30% of the changes made JUST TO THE CHARACTERS in this new version, WITHOUT having seen any of the changes to the "Systems" I just mentioned. Is this really enough to judge "where the series is headed"?

From Version C to Evo, most of the "Top Tier" characters were seen as weaker, with minor changes (Jacky was changed quite a bit, but Kage and Lau were among the least changed, and nearly ALL of Aki's staple moves were heavily weakened, and even more weakened in version B). It was the less popular characters: Sarah, Lion, Shun, Lei, Jeffry, Vanessa, Wolf who got the really heavy revisions; with Wolf being the only character who MAY have gotten weaker to many people. Yet, the first footage of Evo showed very little of this, focusing heavily on Aki's new moves (f+Pb, the Single Palm-SDE canned combo), Lau's ffP+K, TT P+K, Brad and Goh.

And, look at what we've seen: a few Hit Throws, a new Sabaki, a new variation on Aki's sway, a slow canned combo for Brad that goes into his Sway Back, and some rolling and Flashy DP stuff for Kage (which is most likely pure eye candy/covering Kage after DPK, I'm sure Damage will remain reasonable).

Watch 10 random Aki clips, I'd bet you won't see ONE Reversal, b+P+K+G Sabaki or use of the d/bP+K+G.

Watch 10 random Wolf/Sarah/Jeffry clips, probably won't see any use of their Hit Throws (Goh and Aoi being the exception here).

Watch Kage Clips, the DPK and Jumonji Roll are all used sparingly.

If Lau has lost his Jumping Knife Hand in favor of this new move, I'd say he's gotten weaker.

Just because the characters shown have new moves, it doesn't mean that they're gonna be stronger. People telling Sega that things like the DPK or Brad's Ducking Sabaki needing changing is what caused them to make these changes, so imagine how many more people are complaining about the DblPm, Kage's PPbP, Lau in general, etc being too strong. I'm expecting to see weakenings as well as people being powered up.

Suddenly no one remembers all the toning down that happened in Evo versions A & B. In fact, I'd say that EVERY new version of VF4 since it's release was to tone down things that were too strong.

At the same time, it's universally agreed that Brad and Goh are too weak, I'd like to see them beefed up, and it looks like it's already underway with Brad. What's the big deal? Most of us don't even have a fucking dedicated Brad player (or Goh player for that matter) in our playing circles.

Evo is NOT flawless, and while we're at it, VF4 isn't clearly a better game than 3, either.

Spotlite

 

[ QUOTE ]
Not give Akira/Kage/Lau more powerful shit (the 3 which happen to be the most popular characters in game).

[/ QUOTE ]

Could the fact that Akira/Kage/Lau are the most popular characters be the reason AM2 chose to showcase their changes?

 

ONISTOMPA said
''I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Still very pessemisstic, but who knows ?''

Ok, now in what language do I have to write this !? *rolls eyes* I gave the benefit of the doubt which means that I'm out of this argument until I see more footage or get more info and also that I (may) be wrong. Being pessemisstic does not = being right. But hey, if you're bored then be my guess and type away.

 

I'm pumped. FT is gonna rock.

It's difficult to decide where to post since there are multiple discussions going on, but this is where I eenie meenie miney moed it so here goes.

The new animation for Akira looks cosmetic to me...The extention looks less stiff than the current animation...it seems like there is a pronounced snapping of the leg from the knee. I'm reminded of Akira's animation change from VF4 to evo...I love am2's attention to detail & it's morsels like this which make me confident that virtua fighting will stay hot for a long time to come. I mean, when was the last time Akira's got this much buzz?

Richard's been wanting a hit throw with Lau since version C...We watched the vid an hour ago and he's still smiling. If I had to guess at the command for what I've seen, I'd venture + since it seems that Lau move's immediately to his BT + from standing. What I'm wondering at this point is if he has this hit throw option from, say, or +...I imagine he will. This is the last time I say this, I swear. Fuck Lau. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jacky's stuff looks fancy & well within his idiom as Myke said in another thread. For those who haven't seen it, the second hit of his new double jump kick has a bit of spin in it, imparting that nice floppy dummy corkscrew flying upon the opponent. The new three hit Spotlite talked about seemed to end high to me...the animation for the kick looked just like the kick which ends Jacky's current + supergoofiness string.

Kage looks like a thug.

Enhancements to Brad seem to be the showcase of the vid though...on two occasions they seem to show him punishing lp. Brad players are gonna love this, I'm sure. This is so messed up though. At Evo2k3 in 4 matches against Ohsu's Brad my offense consisted solely of random lp's here and there.

Anybody got a quarter?

 

Spotlite, you basically posted everything that I wrote last night, but then decided to delete... Glad there are people who can maintain a sense of perspective.

 

Yup, great post Spot (and Raider). I might have been abit aggressive in my own as I could feel the storm coming up from nothing (as whenever a new game / addition to a games series comes there will always be whiners) and lost it cause I've seen this type of shit over and over again.


/KiwE (Someone should nerf the amount of Naruto avatars on VFDC)

 

Wow. A new game and people freak out. Negatively. I have some comments on what I've read - not responding to anyone in particular.

First of all, if this was nothing more than Evo Ver.C, then guess what? it'd be freakin called "Evo Ver.C". It's not Evo. It's a new version of VF based on the VF4 engine - hence the new *name*. How many new moves, completely new, were added to the game between VF4 Ver.B and VF4 Ver.C? None, really (some Jumonji additions to Kage and Vanessa got another low throw...). How many between VF4 Ver C. and Evo? Plenty.

Secondly. How much have we seen? Like 12 seconds worth of footage. Lets wait to see what the game is realyl like before we jump on it.

Thirdly, I'm looking at Sega finally implementing a marketing strategy to appeal more and more to broader base of players. Case in point, I see 25 odd people show up for a casual Soul Calibur 2 gathering a few weeks back and all I can think of is 'damn, I wish VF has this kind interest'. If the VF series becomes more appealing because of version releases like VF4FT, then I'm all for it. Hopefully, this will start to generate larger playing bases for all of us in North America and other player starved areas outside of Japan.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>