VF4 Evolution Vanessa Thread

Just a question...

I think I saw in an old EVO movie that you can escape the arm break part of Vanessa's after you reach the floor.

Can anyoine confirm this?

 

That's just the animation that occurs whenever you escape that throw. Same thing happens in Ver.C.

 

ah ok!

I was just surprised that the character who escapes this throw waits until he's on the floor before escaping...

Thanks

 

I apologize for bumping up an old thread- but I couldn't find any current Vanessa threads -

Some noobie questions, after having done some searches. Feel free to flame and point me in the right direction if this has been addressed:

- I got that back mount throw in the other day, after Lion whiffed one of his back turn attacks. I didn't even know it existed- there's no mention of it in the command lists, but this thread mentions it earlier. How much damage does it do (a lot it seems)? Is it escapable(I'm guessing not)? Are there any reliable setups for it? After a left hand hold situation, or a back stagger may be (both mentioned earlier in this thread, but no confirms)? The way I got it was to get Lion to whiff his move (sort of like Wolf's b,b+p+g), but I don't know how reliable that is.

- So are the mount setups delayable/canceleable (again, mentioned earlier in this thread, but no confirms)? I've been trying it, but not sure if I'm getting it. I've been just stopping after the blowback, and trying to mix it up with knees and f,f+k and whatnot. Not sure how effective I am at this. Too bad that OS no longer has the elbow drop sabaki (oh why, oh why, oh vf gods), it'd be perfect here.

- As this thread mentions, and as I've painfully learned first hand, the DS b,f+k sabaki lost some coverage (oh why, oh why, oh vf gods), but the command list still lists as if VerC. What exactly was lost/gained?

- Facing DS Vanessa, how can you counter the f,f+k? I was playing someone the other day, and for the life of all, he could not do much against it. Given that he wasn't all that great, but it seems near abusable.

- After the new OS low throw, the one with the single knee, what are some good follow ups? And it appears that there are guaranteed followups?



Overall, I just started playing Evo Vanessa, and man, loving it.

 

Back-mount throw: This is the standard OS + back throw, right? There's also a variant that comes out after doing + into an opponent from behind. OS doesn't really have a lot of back-throw setups, so it's best to just hope your opponent puts themselves in a compromising position.

Mount setups: A couple are delayable in the attacks leading up to it, at least. The starter and followups are extremely versatile in timing. I don't think the mount command at the end is delayable, but I'll check on it.

DS : I honestly have forgotten a lot of stuff about Ver. C, so I wouldn't be able to tell you ^^;

DS : This is one of the best attacks Vane has. She's at a disadvantage if it's blocked, but it has a side effect of knocking the opponent back a little bit, making it somewhat more difficult to retaliate. I'd assume something fairly quick would work well. I think I recall seeing more about this one in an earlier thread, lemme try and dig it up...

OS +: This is something I'm curious to see more of, as well. I didn't see this move get used often by other Vanes, but I'm sure there's potential in it. If anyone has any ideas, please post them, as they will prove very beneficial to my current endeavors.

Welcome to the Vanessa fan party. E!

 

Thx for the info!

Back mount throw -I meant the f,f+p+k variety. I got off my lazy arse and checked in the ps2 training mode, and its 65 dm! Not sure if ground hit is guaranteed, but I think it's a lot of unescapable damage (this would be a high catch back throw?). I gotta find setups for this...

Thx for the mount setup info, I've been using mostly the one that starts with the f+k (I like the frames on that one). I gotta use the b,f+p variety more it seems.

So DS f,f+k is as good as I thought. Great! I've been just blocking or doing that super fast df+p, which seems to pretty much counter anything done in retaliation.

Another quick question - how many frames is it to change stances? And it doesn't seem to work if I buffer it (too bad, I was sort of expecting that, a la Gen of SF). But I guess Vanessa may be too imbalancing if she could buffer it.

 

Here's a bit more on DS :

http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=versus&Number=72297&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1

I don't think it's very many frames to change stances, but enough to be just a bit vulnerable. The Perfect Guide doesn't seen to have any info about it. (._.)

 

Isn't the OS throw (knee to the head with potential followup) a low throw - so +[G+]++, not ++?

I'd like to know some followups to that too - LT's are broken so often I'm always too astonished to do anything about it when I get it =]

grib.

 

Yeah, I forgot the . Oopsie-poo-poos.

 

Those are some killer suggestions, Myke! Still, the opponent isn't going to try a counter every time.... but even so, I'd think those would wind up countering most slower stuff. Anyone else have any ideas?

 

Ah, thx on the OS LT info. f,f+k->mount sounds like a sweet option. Mix up with dash throws I suppose. Kinda sounds a bit like Goh's game after a shrm. Any good ways to setup the LT, asides from all the crumples she gets, which I assume get escaped often? May be mix into the b,f+p series (ghetto Aoi series)? I wish Vanessa had ground throws- because you know like with Aoi/Goh, the opponent crumbling then has to guess between LT and GT escapes, and can usually only enter one type. Oh well. Also, I didn't realize this earlier, but Vanessa's LTs are catch throws? Hmmm. How good are these LTs on eating up attacking frames? Probably not as good as Wolf's f+p+g, or Goh's f,f+p+g, but it's something. Can they eat LPs? Its 13 frames, and you get +4 after, so hmmm.... Another LT afterwards would be a very mean mind game, at least in theory. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Probably already known by most of you, but you can land low throws after [OS](while rising) MC - instead of doing , which most people normally do. I've landed ++ many times, and the things that work for me are first throwing, particularly + and +, because Vanessa seems to be a tiny bit out of throw range after the low throw, but I could be wrong. I also used +, which works against people who try to break the throws or attack high/mid. However, I do think Myke's suggestions are better. On the other hand, a little riskier and possibly more fun, 1/60th lists (while rising) as executing at 16 frames -- same speed as Myke's suggestions, so you could MAYBE quickly buffer in the crouch dash to stuff a low punch, and start the MC guessing games all over, maybe with another low throw. So something like -
and then neutral or +.

I haven't tried the rising knee after low throw, though.

 

Hey Myke,

I was wondering about whether (while rising) would come out in time. I understand that it's execution will be at the least 17 frames, but I'm not sure the reason why. Is it because it is physically impossible to buffer in a crouch dash during the recovery without wasting a frame, or is it because of something like, for moves that begin from crouch, the system has to register you in "crouch" for one frame?

I think I'm confused because of all this talk about Akira's Super-P + (blocked) - SDE, in which it seems the SDE will MC 12-frame jabs (regular dash elbow seems to work also). It looks like a similar situation, but instead of crouch dashing, you need . You said in your reply that moves that require a buffering of standing or crouching will waste a frame. Maybe Akira's dashing elbows aren't the moves which you are referring to when you speak of moves that require a standing dash.

 

Thanks for testing the rising knee out, Myke. Too bad it won't beat an immediate low punch.

As Myke said, I think and throw are probably the best options. I guess what's left is dodge-throw escapers and crouch guarders. I've noticed that Vanessa doesn't have any fast mid half or full-circulars (at least not as a single attack or the first attack of a string). + is something like 33 frames to come out. Interestingly, and are half-circular in opposite directions and is now half-circular, though high and a little slow (16f), but has great recovery +2/+4/+8, as does +2/+6/+6. I guess there's always + for full-circular, but that's neither fast nor rewarding.

With the problems above in mind, what do OS Vanessa's typically use against tech-rollers, I wonder. If she only had DS ...

 

Andy said that Vanessa doesn't have any full spinning moves. But the thruth is that she has. + is full spinning move. What does Vanessa's blocks. Sometimes I hear a sound but it's just my luck that it blocked a move.