VF4 tourney clips, new

Re: Things we've learned

Elbow-palm as in block middle, duck high, PUNISH.

 

Re: Things we've learned

jacky's P+K,P,K: the K is a high turn away crescent. it's not mid.

 

the kage deserved the RO... he did a head pounce for no apparent reason which jacky rising swept. That caused the wall bustage.
The clip was neat for me because I got a better sense of the new TFT combo damage. TFT, knee, PPPK was between 37-40% damage after the opponent hits the floor. I know what one Kage player thinks about this, what about the rest of you... any thoughts on whether this is 'correct' damage or not?
I personally would hate to see anyone die in 2 throws. If any one character gets that power in a game, it should be a slow wrestler type with crappy midlevels (of course even the VF wrestlers don't have crappy midlevels, and they're not -that- much slower than anyone else).

CreeD

 

Re: Things we've learned

they may be similar in terms of countering, but only in vf3 - afiak, countering a whiffed sgpm is a real bitch now (always was, imo) in vf4.

and it still does nothing to say that the risk appears way too low for the damage potential.

furthermore, jacky has the K or d+K to use as last ditch, where lau has nothing. you can even see jacky take advantage of this in the other kyasao vs jacky movie (shun's stage), where kage blocks the P+K, ducks the backfast, then tries to throw - and gets nailed by the d+K sweep - and then two low kicks OTB.

i have no problem with killer moves and throws - every character has at least one, but there should be a balancing act between the risk and reward and it looks way the fuck off-kilter with jacky's beatknuckle combo.

 

Re: Things we've learned

I pointed out the K part, but the d K option was always available in VF3 as well. And I think the d K,K OTB may be recoverable.

I tried downloading the 21 MB file but succeeded in only 11 MB before it broke off. However, the same BK combo Yamidore pulled off was half life (MC I guess)! I do agree that the BK is going to be very strong, but looking at the clips, it's not used that often. Maybe once or twice per round. Surely it's not as low-risk as it seems.

Also, of note is that Kage's TFT -> knee -> d/b P,P,b P,K against the wall was barely 1/3 life (more like 60-70 points). Ouch.

 

Re: Things we've learned

jeff! take the reality blinders off, already. listen to what you're saying - "it can do half life, we probably won't see it more than twice" in a round. i see vague "beatknuckle!" comments everywhere on the japanese pages. yamiyodare beatknuckles almost as much as he elbows; have you ever seen so many beatknuckles just tossed out with glee - in a _tournament_?

 

Re: Things we've learned

There's a page on a Japanese website describing the recommended Jacky counters to an assortment of moves. The appropriate responses fall into one of three categories -- elbow, beatknuckle, or throw counter.

For Kage, (and this is rough estimate, we won't know till frames are published) substitute "uncounterable or PK counterable" for "elbow", and "elbow counter" for "beatknuckle". I don't mind the toned down TFT combos as much as the slow-to-execute elbow. /versus/images/icons/mad.gif

 

well, how often do you just outright get thrown twice by the same throw in the same round?

barring the one hit point rule, in vf3tb -

wolf: two giant swings
jeffry: two xpd and heel drops
akira: two ST, deep bodychecks
kage: well this is complicated - but simplified: two TFT combos, on flat ground, up to jacky. but only just. it's extremely difficult for many of the combos needed to do 200 points total (at least in the arcade it is, and at least after sarah or so).
shun: if drunk, two good df+P+G, cho combos will KO
lion: two facegrab, df+P's 164 points, about equal to two FC throw and pounces
lau: two df,df+P+G's 160 points
jacky: two f,b+P+G soccer kicks take 150 points. not quite there, but almost
sarah: like jacky, with the b,f+P+G
taka: two b,f+P+G,d+P+G,df+P,P will almost KO. two hit throws will come close, too.
pai: two FC throws + df+P 120 points. she does have the belly throw, though - it's far from guaranteed but two ST -> FC throws will do 180 points.

all of which i just wrote out half-interested while surfing around the web and i've lost all interest now. aoi and whoever else i forgot can do reasonable damage with two. point is, throws are pretty brutal in vf3, and more than likely they wanted to move away from emphasis on throws, at least for some characters.

it's sort of pointless anyway - there are other, more difficult TFT combos in vf4 that do reasonable damage and are harder to do than knee PPPK, which makes sense and is fine by me.

 

Re: Things we've learned

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.joy.hi-ho.ne.jp/d13492/>http://www.joy.hi-ho.ne.jp/d13492/</A>

the only link in the third column to the right.

i did mean, though...just skimming through babelfish-ed pages, i see beatknuckle comments all over the place.

...i think i'll get off the beatknuckle subject RIGHT HERE before i look like a total screaming loon. i just think it looks a little over the top.

 

so we have three characters who can kill you in two throws in VF3. SE doesn't count, shun doesn't count because he needs to be drunk. As to how often do you get thrown twice by the same throw in the same round... eh, depends on how good you are. You've certainly TFTd me more than once a round. It's not exactly hopelessly inconceivable.
As you said, the emphasis has been put off throws, and it *should* be. Part of that means making them less attractive by reducing hideously damaging ones.
Getting thrown twice is a mistake, it just shouldn't be a capital offense.



CreeD

 

meeting some of the conditions for some of the characters, either as the thrower or the victim - five.

the akira thing should have been ST, SJK, dBC.

 

Why did Kyasao only dash forward against a fallen opponent? Couldn't he have used Kage's d/f+K pounce kick against them, or does the techrolling negate that now?

 

Ugly windows media movies

Guys, how smooth is the wmv playback on your PC? I'm using a 1.1 ghz AMD machine with similar high spec stuff, on a leased 2 meg line, and they are soo jerky that I can't bear to watch them.
(the above set up is NOT mine - it is a work PC)

Quicktime quicktime quicktime please! The previous movies (the kyasao ones are silky smooth by comparison - I can actually see what is happening in the fights)

What do u guys think btw?

Oh yeah, what about the having the files in divx format ? that would make them smaller and therefore more friendly for modem heads.

Daggi aka Chrisdaggimoh

 

Re: Ugly windows media movies

I think the clips were encoded to 25 frames per second (that's a guess) and at low quality. I think it was to keep them at around 3MB, while still being a decent resolution.

If they were encoded to divx, they would most likely be a lot larger, but at a much higher quality.

 

I thought that I saw the same thing; an extra hit or two on a grounded opponent. I would suspect it would be the same thing on the snow stage. Now that I think about it, the sand and snow is bound to effect gameplay in some fashion, either by slowing down the fighters a bit, or generating some Taka-style ground hits.

About the sandbox being flat, has anybody tried to clear out any space in a match? Knock your opponent down, and instead of pounce or okizeme, just shuffle around and try to clear some sand. I dunno, this may have already been tried, but somebody should get both players to spend a round and give this a shot.

-----
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How the elephant got in my pajamas, I don't know."
-- Groucho Marx

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're upset about. What's so bad about butterfly kicks? I think that, since VF4 is new, players will spend much of their time learning and applying the new moves and techniques. Goodness knows I abused my Escape and double kicks (with Pai) when VF3 came out.

As long as I can remember, Pai's strengths were her speed and her reversals/inashis; filling out her arsenal can only be a good thing, IMO.

-----
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How the elephant got in my pajamas, I don't know."
-- Groucho Marx

 

her reversals sucked in vf2 and vf3. her inashi was an abuse move in vf3ob, but in tb it was neutered completely. her reversal rocked in vf1, though. you could do b,f+P repeatedly - this worked as a punch (which you could tick with), a reversal, and her most damaging throw. and she could reverse weird moves, too, like kage's f,f+P+K+G. sick.

 

This is just a general response to all the posts so far...

RE: Kage's TFT damage

In one of the earlier clips, didn't the TFT -> knee -> P -> P,P,b+P,K take about 40-50% damage? If that is the case, I'm fine with that. Now that the ground is always flat, the added predictability can compensate for the 10% difference in damage. I'm also with Rich here...I'm pretty sure that there are new, VF4-only TFT combos waiting to be discovered that could take the VF3-like damage levels that we are used to.

RE: Throws--made better or worse?

This is something that I've been wrestling with myself. With things like the new double throw escape, slower execution time, faster recovery, disappearance of the K-step, fewer guaranteed opportunities, escapable back/side throws, and it sure seems like AM2 is de-emphasizing throws. Are throws more skill-based in 4? But then you take a look at the extended range, ability for throws to interrupt attacks, and you think, well maybe not.

RE: Pai

Wushu whore or no, I think the new Pai is GREAT. I always did think the VF3 Pai was a little boring.

RE: BK Jacky

As long as that canned K is not a middle, then I'm willing to accept the toned up BK. Hell, his BK doesn't seem any where near as good in VF3, and I attempt the BK combo at least 3 or 4 times a round. I guess this is going to be his new signature move!

RE: Kyasao's head-butt pounce

I do agree that the pounce was out of place. What he may have thought was that Yamidore may not IR since he was so close to the ring's edge and may instead opt to lie on the ground to be safe, hence the pounce for maximum damage. That doesn't make much sense though, since it'd be safer for Yamidore to IRR (instant rolling recovery) to a position where there is a wall, which is exactly what Yamidore did.

 

In one of the earlier clips, didn't the TFT -> knee -> P -> P,P,b+P,K take about 40-50% damage?

Actually, the TFT -> knee -> P -> P,P,b+P,K happened after an elbow. The elbow stunned Jacky, which lead to the TFT. Has the damage and effectiveness for TFT-> knee-> P, P, K-> slide been toned down? I'm just curious about why knee-> P-> P,P,b+P,K is being used.

With things like the new double throw escape, slower execution time, faster recovery, disappearance of the K-step, fewer guaranteed opportunities, escapable back/side throws, and it sure seems like AM2 is de-emphasizing throws. Are throws more skill-based in 4? But then you take a look at the extended range, ability for throws to interrupt attacks, and you think, well maybe not.

Speaking as a relative newbie (scrub, grasshoppa, whatever), I may not notice a few things that more experienced players would. That being said, I don't think the emphasis on throws is lessened that much. Elbow stagger -> throw, mid-level kick stagger -> throw. It seems to be the same as VF3tb. Even when all of the other variables come into play (new double throw escape, slower execution, quicker recovery, etc.).



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