VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fair?

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

We'd be nowhere hadn't NYC made the connection for the I <3 VF gathering. I saw the level of US play increase drastically after exposure to Japan play. They have a better angle at this than we do - accept it.

It's hard to read this and not think that some kind western ego is being bruised here.

Wanna win? Fight hard and Godspeed.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Jerky is right.

GE

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Not allowing players to enter a tournament because they are too good does nothing but kill the credibility of said tournament.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

myke defeated Nuki on the second round though.

he showed the ability that a few players can beat Japanese if you practice.
strong players play vf everyday. do you play vf everyday?
Do you know maddy? he played VF so much everyday.I believe it depends on each player how they play VF. doing nothing and complaining something has no meaning... I guess.

hmm... It depends on what you want to see at EVO. If you want to see good players just from the US, it should be Evo US. I think they want to see better matches compared to just US players or they want to have a competition, so it is evo world, right?

I will go to evo as long as I stay here as a student though haha.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

If you look at VF through the frame of "Japan has an advantage" then you'll never get good cause you're starting off by limiting yourself as to how good you can be at the game. Get your ass kicked? You guys NEED to get out of this mindset. Arguing if it's true or not, if it's fair or not, if Japan has an advantage or not, even THINKING about it in this frame and you're setting yourself up to suck and have a great excuse to save your ego.

Do the Tekken players think like this? How about the Smash players? The SF players? Do they post on their forums about "Is it fair we have to play the Japanese players?" or "Should we limit foreign participation in our tournaments like the Japanese do for SBO?"

And no I don't want to hear any excuses about the arcade scene, Japan have the game first, how you have to organize events to go play people, whatever your excuse is. The excuses aren't the issue here, it's the whole mindset of "It isn't fair that I have to play the Japanese. They have an advantage."

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

I think this whole discussion is for moot. I highly doubt Evo will have VF5 in its roster for next year.

The turnout this year was pathetic. We gave them no reason why they should continue to support the VF community.

Even with the X360 version coming out soon I don't think its going to raise the amount of people willing to travel to play and compete in this game.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Hear hear. Olympic long distance runners might as well petition for Kenya to be banned. How ludicrous does that sound?

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Are you trying to say that Africans have an advantage when it comes to running?
Preposterous.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

True the Evo Nationals VF turnout was pathetic, but EVO WORLD had the biggest VF turnout ever in the U.S. 40-50 people isnt bad for a game that has absoluetly NO SCENE. Also remember VF tourney brings in the Japanese Players. Easy wins plus most of them play other fighting games.

In comparison DOA was in the 30ish

Anyways, after talking to the EVO guys they like to keep VF in it and they think the scene or interest will grow once the 360 version comes out.

If not their will always be a Bring The Players Devolution tourney /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

"I'm not running against him! He's been running cross country at high altitudes since he was 5! They all have! You should at least make them wear shoes."

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

If the game has no scene why should they support it? The thing that pisses me off the most is that the top players in NA didn't even show up to this event! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

There are several games Evo could have official tournaments for which would've had a better attendance. Melty Blood players had a side tourney in the BYOC area that had 40-50 players. SNK players have been DYING to have a game represented for years to help promote their scene.

The bottom line is Evo staff feels a game is not worthy of hosting if the game can't bring up to a 100 participants.

They already talking about cutting games for next year due to time constraints. VF is the first game in talks on the chopping block. You can read about it here. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=137583

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also remember VF tourney brings in the Japanese Players. Easy wins plus most of them play other fighting games.</div></div>
I beg to differ.

Lets exclude Yosuke for he is residing in the US.

Except Itazan, all of the Japanese players that entered the VF5 tourney were there mainly for another game. Even Yosuke and Itazan entered ST and did very well making it into the semi-bracket.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In comparison DOA was in the 30ish</div></div>
DOA4 had over 70 people enter Evo World last year. Many were very upset they weren't welcome this year and thought they would've had more turnouts if it was featured again.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyways, after talking to the EVO guys they like to keep VF in it and they think the scene or interest will grow once the 360 version comes out.</div></div>
I would like to know who you talked to because I don't think that is the general consensus over at SRK. Sure, they respect the game but people are still not playing.

Non-Smash players frown at SSBM thinking its not a real fighting game but it got the second most entries this year of all the games at Evo. It is believed if Brawl is featured next year it will have the most entries with many players crossing over to give it a try.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If not their will always be a Bring The Players Devolution tourney /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>
In my opinion that is not enough. This was our time to show the fighting game community as a whole that VF is game worth playing. If anyone thinks VF should be kept into the Evo series they should speak their mind over at the SRK forums starting at this thread. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=137480


P.S. Thanks for nothing for starting this thread Bryan. Some have taken notice of this thread from the outside and feel that VF players aren't competitive.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Shag, DoA had 60 people, and more than half did not play the game at all before entering. Including yourself, remember? The game was pretty much 20 people who knew how to play DoA, and 40 who were trying to make a quick buck. I had not touched DoA4 for 5 months before entering and beat the crap out of my pool with a low tier character, which was just sad. I highly doubt anyone was pulling that crap at EVO worlds for VF5.

As far as the other games, yes I agree regarding SNK and Melty Blood. I think it's unfortunate they (especially SNK) didn't get a chance at EVO. However, this year was Melty Bloods breakout year, and with support from arcade scenes in SoCal and EC they will probably make it next year.

I personally think this year was just a bad year for VF in general. A lot of things add up to why it ended up having a sucky turn out.

However posting on forums, especially bitching to SRK most definately doesn't add up to progress. You get back into EVO by running tournaments and showing the game has interest. SoCal does this already and a lot of us here do our best to promote the game and get it out there. Denkai talked about having a tournament/gathering over there in NYC for Itazan. Colorado players are telling me they are planning a big major themselves. Many regions from what I read are in hibernation till the 360 version and the 360 version is on the horizon.

Instead of complaining and arguing to SRK why we should stay, let's show them proof that we are a real community by building up the tournaments and continuing to recruit the players.

Negativity (including this thread) = FAILURE

Can we put aside the whole "Japan has such an unfair advantage", "Sega hates us", and "VF5 is so broke, I hate Kage" and just try and work together to build up the player base?

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

I admit their were plenty of vultures but at least they gave it a try. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally think this year was just a bad year for VF in general. A lot of things add up to why it ended up having a sucky turn out.</div></div>
I'm somewhat in agreement with you but it SHOULDN'T have been a bad year for VF.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However posting on forums, especially bitching to SRK most definately doesn't add up to progress.</div></div>
It seems to work for the Guilty Gear players.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

#1, You did give it a good try Shag, remember I played you? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif However the majority of them were Street Fighter/Tekken players that didn't give a damn for DoA and just entered to see if they could make a quick buck. I know you are cool with Virtuapai and all but you and me were there at EVO finals 2k6, so we both should know what's up.

#2, Why "shouldn't" it be? From what I get from Plague, so many old SoCal heads just stop playing some time around Final Tuned era. Maybe it's different over there in NYC but basically here it's the combination of PS3=suck, no arcade release, rather stripped down console version, and maybe old school guys complaining about how the game isn't as balanced as VF4. I mean, I know it's frustrating and I totally agree a lot of this doesn't make sense but that's how the dice rolls. I think that no way in HELL am I top 8 on the west coast, but Pheonixdth, Goatcheeseblues, and older players like akiralove couldn't show up so I somehow managed to place. I really wish that they could have shown up and then we would have had a truly great tournament at EVO west, but they couldn't so that's how things were. We shouldn't hold it against each other just cause we can't make every tournament and having post wars on SRK isn't going to change that.

Which leads to...

#3, There's a big difference between Guilty Gear and us. They have a ton of numbers to back it up. The only reason why people even think of cutting them from EVO is because the top 4 teams pulled some lame crap in the finals. However before all that they still put the time to promote the game and get the following.

In my honest opinion, I think if this game had an Arcade release here in the west we would have had a bigger turn out. Call me crazy but every game in America (minus Smash, which is an enigma) that has huge numbers at EVO also happens to have a large healthy amount of arcade cabinets in America. Hell, I bet you Tekken 5 DR probably wouldn't have had much more than us if they never had an arcade release stateside.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Not too sure about that one. To find an arcade that has guilty gear is extremely rare and to find one with the latest version (Accent core or even Slash) is basically impossible. I'm curious just how many more Guilty gear players were there then VF players? Isn't this the 2nd year in a row Guilty Gear is featured?

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Guilty Gear has been at EVO since 2003 Denkai, and EVO has ALWAYS had the latest version (Reload when it came out, Slash when it came out, AND Accent Core when it came out.).

Guilty Gear definately has the numbers or it wouldn't be going 4 years strong.

As far as cabinets go, there are like 2 or 3 Accent Core cabs in southern california. There is one cabinet in Mass. for east coast guys. One cabinet in Illnois for Midwest and one in Houston for Texas. All of those area's were able to build a dedicated scene (using the arcade cabinet alone) of 10-20 players and send them to EVO, hence why arcade is so important.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P.S. Thanks for nothing for starting this thread Bryan. Some have taken notice of this thread from the outside and feel that VF players aren't competitive.</div></div>

To be honest, I seriously doubt anyone with a brain would use one thread as a way to judge whether a game's audience was competitive or not. If anyone is doing that, they're probably people who've already decided NAVF isn't competitive in their book, and are just looking for more lame ways to prove that point. Do you think anyone would be dumb enough to read all the "DOA Sucks" threads here at VFDC, and come away thinking that DOA's scene isn't competitive?

And, if people are doing what you're saying, then they simply haven't read the thread at all. Almost every reply states that having strong Japanese players @ Evo:

1. IS fair
2. makes the tourney more exciting/interesting
3. allows people to learn from more experienced players

Many of the other replies carry the sentiment of "Stop Complaining or We'll Never Get Better" (not that anyone WAS complaining, to be honest).

I started this thread by trying to simple state facts, and leave my own opinion out; I wanted to see what other people thought. There have been so many intellegent, varied responses, and little pointless arguing. I think in that regard, this thread has been a success.

If someone actually READS this, I think it shows US players would much rather welcome competition from all over the world than be isolated.

If the organizers of Evo don't want to have games like VF, KOF, DOA etc, it's really their loss in the end, because they're limiting the profile of their events. I think it's time we got over what everyone else thinks about VF, what we think about ourselves matters most.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

It's ridiculous if people don't think living in Japan has an advantage over US in terms with VF (putting aside all other games).

But taking evo world as the comparison is also not the best way to see how this works.

Case in point, if there was no traveling limitations to the entrant players at Evo World, meaning that there was an equal number of Japanese players and western players. I don't think there would be alot of western players even making past the round robin.

Why is it? Cause like what Akiralove has said, they have easily accessible machines and competition way before we do. It's also just too bad that there are simply not the same amount of people that plays VF as Japan. Evo was ran on an outdated version of the game. It's just laughable.

I mean, this is a fact, but not an excuse. Every time there's a gathering, you see people get a whole hell of alot better. It's prove that people in the US are capable of getting better, but not everyone can just get good by playing the same 1 or 2 people over and over. Likewise, most good Japanese players probably didn't get good playing the same 2 people over and over.

It's not fair, just live with it. The US VF scene is sad, but it's not due to the people that are playing the game, it's due to all the people that are not playing the game.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

i think the advantage is the convenience of having the setup and the local place to play..

but i think anybody who plays seriously can get as good as they want. and i didnt realize this comming from a japanese player, i realized watching Ryan Hart in UK preform many years ago (well, i suppose more so than now)..~ and i really believe his imagenation and skill level when playing VF (among many games) is without a doubt on the level i see the japanese play~ im not being biased or ignorant, i really saw him thinking miles before his opponent and probably x4 faster.

i really believe that nomatter who you are, where you are and who your with, you can get good depending how much YOU fully understand your game.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Ryan Hart also has alot of experience playing there. It's undeniable and you see examples of it everywhere.

Without experience in the field as varied and competitive as a place like Japan, it's just impossible for 99.999999% of the people to reach that level. Thousands (or maybe hundreds for VF5) of heads thinking and analyzing the game is way better than 1 or 2 heads.

I'm sure Ryan will also agree that he will probably have a hard time getting to where he's at without the time he spent with JP top players.