VF5:FS Ver A Video Properties

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

I do!

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Like you, I invited someone to try it out offline and we reproduced the result with a high consistency. In the video, since it's nothing complex, we only gave it one match practice to get the timing down to avoid an early evade. So what you're saying is that a move buffered into a dash is susceptible to delay like frames, so you can't evade during the period from the dash to the move actually executing right?

You probably left your opponent at -1 from a wasted frame on the command input and asked him to evade out of disadvantage, so that the evade would come out later than your 66p right?

You're right, we are talking about a single frame that makes the difference between a successful and failed evade. In the very first example in my video, Shun visibly attempts the evade after 66p is in execution, but well before it connects. I'll take some screen grabs, perhaps also from other attempts, and examine it.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

wouldn't an easy way to tell be by the sound, in terms of when it was entered? a normal evade, the character makes no sound, right? but if evading during the execution of an attack, they make a little noise, right?

am I crazy? long as you hear the sound, it was input during execution frames?

I didn't hear shun making sound in Andy's vid?

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

The point is to evade during disadvantage, or simply to setup evade during "even" such as Wolf's K+G on block. If you worry about 1 frame lost due to dash input, then give Aoi +1 situation to use 66P.

I think it's not necessary to evade during advantage, but the result should be the same.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How else can an evade be successful if it's not entered during disadvantage? </div></div>

there are examples though where you'd do it, no? Evading a predictable attack at "Ready, Go!" to counter right away, or evading a rising kick, etc

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Myke, how about this part?

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

less talk, more vidoes

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

In order to end this argument once and for all, why don't you one of you guys put up a vid of Shun's 8K being blocked, Aoi doing 66P and Shun evading to the correct side. That shold clear up any confusion, right?

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

8k on block? Why? The confusion is caused by visual judgement&#65292;and Akira 666p is the best example. Maybe try to evade a move which is canceled such as Aois 6ppg, the second hit is canceled but u still can evade. Or just kg cancel&#65311;

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

I actually found this topic interesting, because I think what Andy wants to know (what he's wishing the new vids would show) is when, if it's possible, to evade an attack AND be free to do whatever you want immediately without fear of being hit. I'd imagine it's probably case by case, but something worth investigating for common situations; one that used to get me was Akira's 214 P at close range.

for example, in the case of Lei's charge attack, does empty evading ASAP allow you to get into better position to mC, to set up a side/back KD? Or is it best to wait til the last moment? If you empty evade early in the execution, then use 8 way run to try to get deeper to the side/back, will the attack track?

maybe this isn't the best thread for it, but it's interesting stuff, and it also applies to strings, like I mentioned earlier (dodge Sarah's elbow to get hit by the canned K, even though you're now behind her, empty evade wins). Maybe Andy and I are just behind all the new school masters around here, so this stuff is interesting to us old men.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

There are two distinct conversations going on in our replies. The first is the utility of the arrow indicators. The second is whether 66p is peculiar with VFs solid evade mechanic.

I asked you this on purpose. Earlier you said:

No it doesn't. I've repeated this a few times now, they need to make more obvious differences in the arrow indicators. Have a look at these images:



I'm sounding like a broken record. Not only do the arrows stay on the screen after the move has connected, the arrows appear on the screen anytime moves are committed and entered into the input buffer. I already wrote that you can't dodge a move before it's being executed as a reply to Matteo. As you've stated....Shun's not gonna dodge Aoi's dash.



In the second picture, the arrow indicator appears on the screen while Shun is flat on the ground and the low rising attack is committed. Imagine you were fighting Akira who was face down feet towards and you wanted to dodge his stationary delay rising attack after committed, how's the arrow showing up early like that going to help you? You're not dodging his rising attack.

Youtube doesn't have any in-built mechanism to slow down the videos, without more obvious differences in the arrow indicators, the utility of these indicators is wasted. I've suggested to have the arrows flash according to the moves property and actually turn solid when you can evade.

On our second conversation about Aoi's 66p, I have to repeat again, I don't disagree with the evade mechanic. I think the system is consistent, but really honestly thought 66p was a peculiar exception and prone to failed dodges.

On the testing methodology, there's always room for human error. Your opponent could have entered in the dodge late enough to produce a successful evade. On my attempts, a lot of them were done while guard buffering 66p and that should negate any wasted frames from an inadvertent dash. I could post a video of this. Personally, I think if you see shun getting a failed evade a few times after I've used 66p guard buffered, it would be enough evidence. Only out of continued curiosity, because I don't think human error would produce such a high number of early evades, do I want to try testing this again.

I'm going to use a different scenario though. I'll buffer in 66p after the P in Aoi's 6kg, p sequence, leaving Aoi at +4. Shun will guard the 6kg, p and evade to my front side. I'll save as a replay and turn the command input screen on. If I get a failed evade...that's enough evidence for you right? If I'm wrong, that's good to know the move doesn't have some peculiar timing to evade. I don't want to do this again, so let me know if the above is good enough and accurate for you.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

It's good that a few people still discuss topics like these. What you wrote is definitely what I was getting at.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

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I think the only way we can restore order to the universe is if we (and by we, I mean you) agree that the evade arrows are not meant to be some kind of Quick Time Event mini-game (you must evade "now"), but rather, an informative aid ("this" is the direction you can evade). I still maintain that there's nothing wrong or misleading in the timing of the symbols being displayed.

I have nothing more to add. </div></div>

Oh c'mon, by your spoiler logic, how hard would it be for me to pause at the exact moment both images are at the first frame of execution from a Youtube video? Anything more than one frame and you know that the arrows don't appear as you believed. I didn't go specially looking for something a couple pages back to create this lengthy conversation. The timing of the arrow appearance was something I noticed on first watch of the video. You wrote

Images show otherwise and you're telling me I caught both images from the first frame of execution...that's a pretty improbable feat. The arrows likely show up as a move is placed in the input buffer and it's enough to produce a failed evade.

Yes, the arrows are not some kind of quicktime event. That was my suggestion. Add an arrow indication, of a success/failed evade+X attempt, since the replay knows what you tried, and the result is a quicktime mini game event that serves as a learning tool. We spent the next couple pages having different views on whether it would be useful. Nevermind though...it's fun to explore these things once and a while.

 

Created this thread for the recent discussion from the VF5 Final Showdown videos thread.