VF5FS Easy Throw Escape

Erm, sort of right. Throws are 100% chance to break if you get the direction right.

Example. Player one holds , then holds and or "back" if you're on the left,

Player 2 uses punch, it's blocked, then goes for a throw ending in their back such as say a "Forward, Back" throw. You'll break their throw without having to press anything

Example 2. You hold Block, then guard, and they go for a neutral throw (+) you'll break that throw

Basically there's only 3 standing throw directions now (Excluding catch throws which cannot be broken)

If they keep using a throw that ends with a forward such as say + You can hold + and you'll break their throw.

 

Also, VF is much about reading your opponent and throws work the same way. While we can say that you have a 1-in-3 chance of a throw escape being the correct one, that assumes your opponent's throws are completely random (and they can be).

But there are a lot of factors for what throws happen:

* Sloppy opponent might get P+G a lot, so maybe neutral throw is the way to go. I don't advocate this but it's often true.

* There's almost always a best "ideal" throw for the situation. And you can usually cut off these throws. For example, unless Jean's back is to the ring, he almost always wants to get you with something ending with f+P+G if he uses his throw game at all. So if you don't want to guess so much, but you at least want to cut-off that throw, you can just always escape f+P+G. You can even do this for awhile until you get a read on what throw he's going to do, and then escape based on your read.

* Some characters will force you to choose between two optimal throws. For example, against a good Taka player, it is a two-way guessing game because his two best throw directions (back and forward) lead to the same high damage. So in this case, you should be trying to read your opponent--maybe make him use the throw ending in b+P+G because it's a combo throw and he might not always land the combo (he should, it's not so hard). But in general, Taka forces you to split your choice between back and forward because the damage is the same.

* Some opponents like to pick the second best throw direction, because they feel that it's less likely to get escaped so there is damage assurance.

* All the above being said (and more things to consider beyond that), you will want to have a read on throws at the end of a round. Don't out-think yourself (let your opponent show you what they will actually do), but when your life is low enough that neutral throw will win the round for your opponent, then suddenly you have 3 directions to worry about if your opponent is the type to take advantage of this (you'll have to read your opponent).

Anyways, it is a deeper topic for discussion in another thread. But I felt I would also pitch in my 2 cents on this topic since it was implied in Sketch's post ^_^

 

Gotta say, I *love* the new throw escape system. The old multiple escape buffering was pretty much the only thing I've never liked about VF, because a) holy carpal tunnel, Batman; and b) multiple throw escapes really just shut some characters down cold. I feel it created sort of a weird dynamic where throws were really poweful at low levels of competition (more throw directions, a clash system dissuading Abare in vanilla 5), and almost too weak at the very high levels (consider what used to happen to Jacky's throw game if you could break even just and consistently; now add a third direction to that).

The new system feels really good. It's more approachable for beginners, but it keeps throws powerful at all levels of competition.

 

Hey all. Not sure if people are still following this. Sorry for the late response.

I really appreciate the input from Myke, Chanchai, and TeeZed. I have started to factor all of this into my gameplay.

Th biggest difference/adjustment between Tekken and VF is when throws actually connect. This is where I become comfortable with guessing in VFs throw escape system. In tekken, throws will be allowed as long as the opponent's attack is not in active frames. However in VF, i see/read that throws will not work in any attacked frames at all. In Tekken, the few times where high level players do not escape throws is when we are caught with a throw in the middle of a move coming out. As stated in a previous post in this thread, throws will not connect if any attack animation startup or active is going on.

Essentially, this makes throwing harder to land (not impossible, just more difficult than in Tekken in Soul Calibur). In SC, you also have to guess throw breaks at 50/50 A or B breaks, and the throws can also be buffered into guarding, but not by holding A or B down (you have to tap the buttons consistently, and most people that just don't want to guess and are not in a ring out position will just tap a,b,a,b,a,b... while holding guard).

Sorry for going off topic. Anyway, I see the tradeoff legit enough for me to be comfortable with it.

Breaking throws on reaction is, however, different than stopping throws on reaction. So even though a simple jab would stop a throw, that is different than seeing a throw coming out and breaking it (Tekken) or guessing which throw it is (SC and VF). From lowest to highest, VFs throws take 10 frames to be active, Tekken is not much different at 12 frames, and SC is 17 frames. To jab out of even a 17 frame throw would be extremely difficult, so I don't think I'm going to go that route because I think it would be next to impossible to: see a throw coming out, be able to distinguish it from an attack, and press a button in response to it. All within 10 frames. And I'd be scared of mixing a throw read up with an actual attack and getting counter hit. I think I read that you have 10 frames to escape a throw once it connects in VF, totaling 20 frames to react and guess if you aren't using the new TE system. In Tekken, you have from the 14th frame after the throw has started up until the 27th frame to break it. I don't know what it is for SC. I'm just trying to size up my options because I put years into learning how to break throws in Tekken so I want to make sure I start off right in VF in terms of throw escspes. I'm still trying to read up on DOA throw breaking because I'll be playing that too when it comes out (Shoutouts to 3D fighting game resurgence, haha).

Anyway, I really appreciate the input, and I think that I will be holding P and possibly a direction after reading an opponent while holding guard from now on. I will start to implement TEs in my evades and recoveries as well, but I don't see that being part of my muscle memory for another few months. Thanks for the info, people.

 

I also enjoyed reading your response/update! Keep it up man!

It's great to see you putting a lot of thought into all of this and all of the other 3d fighters as well. You're totally on the right track, keep it up!

You might be surprised how soon you will probably start doing Guard Throw Escape after committing the time to practicing it and even forcing yourself to do it against beginners and even weak AI.

Good luck to you man, and looking forward to seeing how everything keeps working out for you

 

I have a question about escaping in Side-Turned situation in VF5FS:
- in ST only one direction of throw is possible, so there is no 1/3 Throw success. So, if I holding ONE Throw escape and i am 100% defended from throws.
- in ST i can ti Guard high or low. So, if i holding Stand Guard - i am defended against High and Mid strikes.
RESUME: when i am in ST - i must to hold Stand Guard with TE, and then the only options for opponent is LOW STRIKE or GUARD BREAK.

Question: Does it mean that character w/o Guard breakers (only Low strike is for them) are non-balanced weak in ST offense situation?

 

You can wait few frames and then use "normal" throw using opposite direction to your ST escape. That short time is usually enough for your char to turn face-forward enough so you eat guaranteed throw

 

The situation is altered when you're ST, but there are still guessing games. However, the guess for an immediate ASAP throw is no longer really a guess. If you are in a ST position and your opponent throws ASAP whenever throwing in this situation, then generally you'll want to do the proper Side-Throw-Escape (while holding G or while evading or any other defensive technique). Unless your opponent goes for a low attack or guard-break.

However, as Unicorn mentioned, your opponent can delay their throw (I usually use a dash to delay a throw, but it can give it away if the only thing you do after a dash is throw). When the throw is delayed, it opens the throwing guessing game back to 3 possible throw escape directions.

The Side-Turn situation in FS is an area of the game I personally enjoy a lot as it warps the guessing games. It also helps that I use a character that is strong against ST opponents (Lion), but I really enjoy how it has forced me to pay better attention and hold my focus more. However, I am going beyond the scope of this thread...

As far as throws are applied in the Side-Turned game, I don't think the balance is thrown off much in the ST situation because of the throw game and I don't think it skews the balance more than however much it was already adjusted. Delay throw is very valid in side-turn as long as it is being mixed up with other options.

ST situation in this game has a lot of variables, and while VF has always stressed Nitaku and frame pressure, there is a lot more to the game and lots of overlapping offensive and defensive options and techniques to squeeze your opponent with in addition to frame advantages.

 

@Sugata, Yes, if you can see which side of you opponent is, there is only one (side) throw escape to consider. So you can technically always escape it. Once you start holding G though the characters will realign swiftly unless opponent attacks, and you will have to adjust with a normal throw escape shortly.

Also there is also one thing that you will run into in practise but that hasn't really been mentioned here yet. Unblockable jabs from the side. Depending how you end up sideturned, these are part of the guessing game. Usually happens when opponent turns you sideways with a move that hits as counterhit, you cannot just hold G and block the jabs. For some characters this is a bigger threat than others, for example Jackys PPP is a natural combo from the side and knocks down for decent damage. Explore "side fuzzy" to find out what needs to be done with UB jabs. (they are not blockable but you can still duck them)

 

Thank you, guys!

RESUME: usage of DELAYED throw (delay about 3 frames for opponent to realign) - will make a Normal throw with 3 TE variants instead of Side throw with 1 TE >>> so, this increase a guess game for opponent:
- staying in ST Guard with TE
or
- dealing with Mid/Throw mix ups as usually in -3 status.

Question: is it possible to perform Fuzzy Guard when i am in ST situation to defend against opponent? What is the difference between Fuzzy Guard from ST?

 

From the side, the attacker is far more limited in his options in throws, than he is in attacks. Remember this.

I use the EAR method. If you see your character as you, watch which side of the head the character may throw you. Break whichever side the Ear is on. Don't get lost in hands, legs, facing towards, facing away. Just look at the ears lol.

 

Fuzzy guard works exactly the same, crouch fuzzy for -1 to -2 and crouch dash fuzzy from -3 to -5 I believe.

Keep in mind though that minus/plus frames for moves on block and hit during sideturned aren't the same as from they front. Depending on the base damage of the move they can gain up to an extra 6 frames advantage.

 

for sideturned throw escapes, i've found this to be extemely useful:

you are facing towards the screen, escape away from opponent.

you are facing away from the screen, escape toward opponent.

works on either side. i have a feeling i've seen this method posted already, not sure where. hope this helps.

 

I find it easier to break throws if you use a pad theres 2 ways you can do it. You can hold guard and punch and direction like usual but the easy way for me is tap guard then hold LB (xbl) which is basically guard and punch in the same button. Its like doing everything on 1 hand a bit faster.

 

Sorry to necro, but is this even true for El Blaze, who can do + or + on side turn?