VFDC Ranking Project?

Re: Tokyo Tier stuff

THat's correct.
From normal stance, he's got which goes into [IN]. Maybe I can sell you that. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: Tokyo Tier stuff

sorry, I meant [DM] P,P. Not [IN] P,P.
[IN] P still seems pretty much a waste.

 

Re: Tokyo Tier stuff

[IN] isn't all that bad. It leaves him at a very slight disadvantage when blocked. He recovers in [DM] stance afterwards, so he can take advantage of that by using the 10 frame [DM] to interrupt their elbow/mid punch/knee/mid kick/. He can also beat low Punch with Bokutai + and interrupt sweeps with [DM]. The only thing I've found difficult to handle is low kick. In that situation I guess the best option would be to enter [IN] stance again and use or +(depending on foot position), or maybe [DM]+ to jump over it. That stuff is risky though. It's still not bad for a mid range move.

 

JP Tiers

During last week's gathering in NYC, I asked Kyasao and Heruru about their thoughts on Evo's tiers and here are the results.

Kyasao slightly modified what he said before but it basically remains the same. The characters under the 4th ranking are just below those in the 3rd ranking according to him.

Kyasao's Tiers

High
1) Lei Fei
2) Aoi/Pai/Sarah
3) Jacky/Vanessa

Middle
4) Akira/Kage/Lau/Lion/Shun
5) Goh/Wolf

Low
6) Brad/Jeffry

Heruru's middle and low tiers are the same as Kyasao's but his high tier is a little bit different. It's interesting to note that he said that Lei Fei is far and away the strongest male character.

Heruru's Top Tier

1) Pai
2) Aoi/Sarah/Vanessa
3) Lei Fei

 

Re: JP Tiers

I'd agree that Pai is top tier /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Re: JP Tiers

Cool! I completely agree with both tetsujins on 5) and 6), though I would personally group 1) - 4) into one block.

Top: Everyone except...
Middle: Wolf and Goh
Low: Brad and Jeffry

In the right hands, Wolf would definitely be top tier. If you know what the opponent is going to do, Wolf can take off more damage than any other character in most situations. However, I put him below other characters since he has more trouble against random players than say, Aoi who can continue to rely on a few key moves and disallow the opponent to engage in guessing games.

As for Goh...he feels more than capable of winning tournaments. Actually, what someone wrote in the Brad thread seems to apply to Goh perfectly: he has the tools, but doesn't really have anything abusable/strong.

Brad is discussed in the other thread but really I think a low punch sabaki from slipping is enough to put him in the middle group.

Now Jeffry...ahh, the character I've invested the most time in behind Kage. A simple character to learn, but extremely hard to play against stiff competition. I think he's almost there, and just needs one of the following to move him up to the middle group:

- + to take guaranteed damage, maybe 30 points with perfect recovery and 50 points with no recovery

- + to either take 80 points damage, or make the ground stomp guaranteed again AND have + take 80 points while keeping the option of butt-stomping

(Not as important, but I also wish they'd make + just + instead.)

- + to be made uncounterable AND to execute at Yoho speed

- or to have Jacky/Lau/Sarah elbow properties.

- Extend the delay on the second hit of

I.e., either improve Jeffry's throwing game or make him a more scary attacker.


On any given day, I fear playing against Brad, Goh, Jeffry, and Wolf as much as any other character (Goh especially with Kage). I would rather face the strongest non-Brad player outside of Japan/Korea in a tournament than Ohsu's Brad. This game is REALLY balanced.

 

Re: JP Tiers

Ice said it at the end of his post, but I will state it again. VF is super balanced. Because of that there are only a Few things the make characters higher tier that others. Its not as extreme as namco game in which one or two characters are top tier because everything in there game is better than 90% of the other characters.

Im still not sure why Lei-fei is top tier. But from what I understand, he has the least amount of punishable moves. While this dosent make it impossible to beat him, It gives him just that much edge over all the other characters. At some point everyone has to commit to something, and Lei-Fei can commit to safe and powerful moves more than lets safe Jeffrey, who has the least amount of safe moves in my opinion.

The girls are also high tier, because of there fast jab. Yes they float higher and thus take more dmg, but in reality, there speed is just too much, and in strong hands, the girls(Not vanessa) are hella strong. Jacky and Vanessa are third tier cause they arent as fast as the lightweights, but they have speed that matchs them. So tier two and tier three are seperated by 11 frame jabs.

All the middle tier characters are all well rounded and have one or two abusive techniquest that help them, but they either arent as abusable or as fast as the top tier characters and thus fall into middle tier. The reason Wolf and Goh are bellow some in the middle tier, is due to the fact that they are completely straight up. All around strong characters, but since they have throw games(which can be beaten with throw escapes)the rest of there game isnt abusive. THey dont have key moves that dominate in situations. Basically with WOlf and Goh, you just have to guess right. Cause nothing you have is dominant. IF they punch you dodge, if they dodge you throw. Its Bread and butter with them.

I dont play brad but IM guessing hes low tier cause he dosent have a good throw game at all(worse than jacky perhaps) and I dont think hes a fast as vanessa or jacky. I think in VF5 they should think about making him on par with jacky speed.

Jeffrey is low tier because he doesnt dominate in anything but looking mean lol. His throw game is limited when compared to wolf(no ground throws, not as many low throws, not as many good throws) Hes a slow character, and barely has safe moves. that dosent mean he is weak. Just that is very tough to win a match if you arent super strong with Jeffrey.

basically VF tiers are like the 100m dash in the olympics. Only fractions of a second seperate 1st from 3rd. Its the same thing in VF.

 

Re: JP Tiers

Just a little point here. Wolf has just as many low throw directions as jeffry and their throw games are similiar option wise. 2 good directions for both. Wolf's throw game is supplemented by cath throws which are very important for stopping things like E-DTE and MTE-g.
Also I belive shun has the least number of safe moves.
Off the top of my head i belive shun has somewhere around 65 counterable moves. far more than anyone else. his basic safe moves are also high or special mid which doesnt really count for much. One of the few characters whose core game dissalows him to play in close. So in summation shun sucks and im just so good i make him look average

 

Re: JP Tiers

[ QUOTE ]
Just a little point here. Wolf has just as many low throw directions as jeffry and their throw games are similiar option wise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not...even...close.

Discounting wall and low throws (which are similar):

Wolf:
80 points
70 points
0 points
70 points
Plus excellent catch throws with different ranges and execution speed

Jeffry:
65 points
70 points
45 points
0 points
0 points
No catch throws

I don't consider hit-throws to be part of a character's throwing game.

What I propose for Jeffry:
80 points
80 points
45 points
0 points
0 points
No catch throws

OR:
65 points
70 points
45 points
0 points
30 points
No catch throws

 

Re: JP Tiers

I hope your kidding. Shun is crazy safe, much safer than jeffrey. I talkings tools here baby. Chouwan, Low-kick, , Not to mention that the list is for when shun is drunken, After like 12 dp, his moves get sick fast and become safe, even moves that arent safe like mule kick.

 

Re: JP Tiers

Low kick is -16 on block doesnt matter how much he has to drink. and db+kk is punishable first db+K goes from -20 with 0~9 dp to -17 with 30~40dp. db+k,g takes 19 frames most fo which shun is throwable or you could just put out a ground scraping move which will hit him for full damage. db+kk is -13 regardless of dp which doesnt really mean much beacuse if you block the first hit your crouching and if you remain crouching it will whiff. which is like free spod or launcher. the db+kk takes 11 frames after execution to fall down in which you could throw shun or hit him again. hell you can hit shun after he is on the ground from db+kk. Chouwan is one of his few safe moves its trade off for not being a true mid.

I was just saying similiar in that they have 2 high damage throw options. i though jeff's did more to be honest. So ill concede the point. If jeff had catch throws like wolf i doubt he would be low tier.