VFDC StarCraft II Thread

my BNET Identifier is "Bishopfrost" . Im only bronze league inspite of getting my 100th win last night. I play Zerg

 

If anyone wants to add me as a friend on Battle.net, the email I'm using is "Brian-Copeland@hotmail.com"

 

just got it today. yay. Last RTS i played was kessen 1, so it's pretty novel.

Just wondering, i'm playing in the campaign and i was wondering if there are any additional ways to make credits. I thought i was making them by going back and replaying completed missions. But nope. Anyhow, just wondering if there was any way. THanks guys

 

Doing missions and then later on you can do it by handing in Zerg or Protoss research.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHG40AdYfJ0

 

Me and like 4-5 of my friends run SC2 quite a bit.

Feel free to send a friend request -> Johochef@gmail.com

 

The game is terribly imbalanced at the moment, not just IMO. Remarkable for a 2010 game that basically has _three_ characters and went through nearly a year of beta testing. Zerg is terribly mismatched against Terran in pretty much all skill levels.

Top US Zerg players agree that Zerg is underpowered. Korean players at ALL SKILL LEVELS say that Zerg is underpowered.

As for my personal example--I was originally placed in the silver league and was doing okay. Then I switched to Zerg--kept losing and demoted to the bronze. Continued to try Zerg, still losing. Then I switched to Terran--I have something like 10-11 straight wins atm and #1 in the league. Now does this sound like a balanced game? Again, I am by no means a top player, but the Korean forums are also filled with platinum and diamond level players complaining Zerg being weak.

Relic at least knew how to listen to their customers. You suck blizzard.

 

^I logged back in after a few months just to state how retarded you are. Every balanced game in existence goes through tons of patches to get that way. Yes, Zerg are a little weaker than the other races (So are Sarah and Lion on VF5). Is it an unwinnable matchup by any stretch of the imagination. No...

I'm #1 Platinum only playing Zerg after having no previous RTS experience at all and will likely be Diamond the next time I play the game. Blizzard has also announced balance changes to weaken zealots and reapers which currently gave Zerg the most problems early on. If you can't get out of bronze with Zerg, you are doing things very very wrong. That's one of the worst anecdotes I've read in awhile.

Top players were also crying about how thors were too strong against mutalisks and Terran mech was unstoppable against zerg. A few weeks later the "magic box" was found and its not as big an issue. Before SSF4 came out Justin Wong was claiming Makoto was great and Adon sucked, how did that work out.

I kinda hope you're just trolling at this point honestly.

Johoseph I'm gonna add you : D. I'd add the Euro players if we could play : (.

 

Yeah, Terran has it pretty good.

When you play vs Terran they set the pace from the second the game starts. You actually have to wait for them to make a mistake before you can win.

Did anyone else watch Idra vs Morrow at the IEM in Germany?

Idra had to play on the backfoot every single game. Morrow opened with Reapers, which is totally safe vs Zerg. The only thing Idra could have done to beat that from the get go is a 6 pool and a 6 pool is so unbeleivably shakey that you would need to be 100% certain they were going reaper and were not walling off.

So every game Idra had to build to defend against the reapers.And in the final game Morrow didn't go Reapers and instead went for a helion harass with some Marines and Marauders and was transitioning into tech.

Idra had built to defend against the safe opening and ended up getting smoked.

The list for upcoming balance changes has already been announced here.

Nerfs all around!

Terran (of course) got hit hardest here. But not by as much as I was expecting.

I don't really mind the change to Reaper build time. it will still be a viable opening but they won't mass up as quickly.But will still put pressure on Zerg early game but not to the same extent.

Increased bunker build time really doesn't matter a shit to me. Actually, a cool little glitch surfaced where SCVs can construct while they are within a bunker which is crazy and I expect it to be gone in th eupcoming patch.

Siege tank nerf is...eh. It's not that big of a nerf, upgrade to +1 mech attack and you're back where you started. vs Zerg the only unit that will not be 1 shotted by a 0/0 Siege is now Hydras.


Battlecruiser nerf seems somewhat pointless. I rarely see them and the decrease from 10 to 8 damage vs Ground units won't make much of a difference as if someone has teched to Cruisers they will almost always have other units backing them up.

They didn't touch Marauders which surprised me, they are such a strong and affordable unit at any point in the game and are usually the backbone of any Terran push. I had thought that taking stim away from them would be a good idea as a Marauder with stim and concussive shells is insane.

Also expected a change to the viking range but I'm glad they didn't.


Protoss got their Zealots hit. Blizzard felt that a Zealot rush was too powerful.

I don't play Protoss so I can't really comment on how this will hurt them but increased build times always hurt. I don't have many problems with proxy gateways but I imagine the cooldown on the warp and increased build time will hit that quite hard.


Zerg got a hit on their ultras which surprised me.

Ultralisk damage is less now but on the upside they removed the ram attack vs buildings which means that the attack arc of the Ultras will hit multiple buildings.

 

I feel obliged to point out that this situation is quite similar to the terran having to defend against zerg mutalisk harass in SC1 brood war.

 

Well, I never played SC1 so I can't honestly say.

All I know is Terran vs Zerg at the moment when Zerg starts they have to build to defend against Reapers. They don't really have much choice.

Reaper opening is very strong at the moment and can put Zerg way behind heading into mid game depending on how well the battle plays out in Terran's favour.

 

you never played starcraft 1? ever? not even one game? wow.

 

never played SC1 either, but with about 4-6 hours in, i'm digging SC2. (all single player campaign.)

 

@erdraug
No I would not say the situation is quite similar. The units that soft-counters the early mutalisk harrass (SC1 or SC2) are your most basic units (marines) which you are supposed to build anyway. Same for your other anti-air counters. And this supposed to be different for other race how? You are supposed to build anti-air counters going to mid game _anyway_ and they are useful throughout the game. What Seidon is describing (early reaper counter) become quickly obsolete against Terran once you go into mid-game. This is a serious issue as Terran dominates the mid-game against any race. (Except maybe the Protoss who managed early voidray rush.) From your post it seems clear you are a Terran player. I can't imagine any one else would be thinking Terran ever lacked early anti-air, SC1 or 2.



@GT
Read your own post again. You spend half your post admitting the game is not fully balanced (going as far as saying no game is) and you call me a troll for pointing this out? I don't know how thngs are in the Euro server. But in the US server Zerg is practically extinct in 1:1 play. Zerg is much more viable in many vs many matchups so they are more frequently found in those match ups. In any case, here is a a slightly paraphrased quote from gamereplays.org: "Zerg needs to scout Terran. Terran doesn't need to scout Zerg. That's the heart of the problem." No it's not like Lion or Sarah. It's like a character in VF needs to rely on Yomi while the other character doesn't because s/he always has frame advantage.


And well, maybe my anecdote is the worst anecdote ever to you, but that's my anecdote, thank you. And your anecdote happens to be the worst anecdote from my POV. You're welcome and good for you. And do you realize that you with your godly skill (without even ever playing RTS before) insulted every bronze level zerg player, including frakimus?

And to reiterate, I can understand how RTS games with 4 races and 3 different heroes each (such as Warcraft 3 or Dawn of War2) or similar number of different factions (various "historical" RTSes) come out with balance issues at the beginning. But SC2 had practically unlimited budget and testing time with only three races.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@GT
Read your own post again. You spend half your post admitting the game is not fully balanced (going as far as saying no game is) and you call me a troll for pointing this out? I don't know how thngs are in the Euro server. But in the US server Zerg is practically extinct in 1:1 play. Zerg is much more viable in many vs many matchups so they are more frequently found in those match ups. In any case, here is a a slightly paraphrased quote from gamereplays.org: "Zerg needs to scout Terran. Terran doesn't need to scout Zerg. That's the heart of the problem."
</div></div>

The point was that things are likely to change regardless of a balance patch (there are going to be tons) and I said Zerg was weaker but things are not "terribly imbalanced". MVC2 is terribly imbalanced. This isn't.

I called you a troll for your previous post and this one. You plan to say anything positive in this thread anytime soon.

Zerg is probably the least viable in 2v2+ because Zerg is the only race that can't wall off and are the most susceptible to rushes by multiple people.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And well, maybe my anecdote is the worst anecdote ever to you, but that's my anecdote, thank you. And your anecdote happens to be the worst anecdote from my POV. You're welcome and good for you. And do you realize that you with your godly skill (without even ever playing RTS before) insulted every bronze level zerg player, including frakimus?
</div></div>

Learning every game involves you doing things wrong for a long period of time. I'm probably still doing certain things wrong in VF. That's not an insult...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And to reiterate, I can understand how RTS games with 4 races and 3 different heroes each (such as Warcraft 3 or Dawn of War2) or similar number of different factions (various "historical" RTSes) come out with balance issues at the beginning. But SC2 had practically unlimited budget and testing time with only three races.</div></div>

Nice exaggeration. And as far as I know the beta lasted 3-4 months.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> No it's not like Lion or Sarah. It's like a character in VF needs to rely on Yomi while the other character doesn't because s/he always has frame advantage. </div></div>

How is this not like Lei-Fei again.

Anyways I'm out I generally don't bother arguing with anyone over the internet.

Edit: Diamond now. : D

 

"You plan to say anything positive in this thread anytime soon."

If by "anything positive" you mean "positive things to say about the game's balance and kiss the game's ass" I would be more than happy and proud to stay negative. I have no reason to sing praise for SC2 or Blizzard. However I who shelled out $60 on the game has more than enough rights to complain if I wish and exercise my freedom of speech as long as I speak no lies.


"Nice exaggeration. And as far as I know the beta lasted 3-4 months."

The official beta lasted over 5 months. And footage from inhouse gameplay tests have been available at least a year before the release. (So maybe you call them alpha instead of beta. Still the fact is that they have been playtesting the game well over a year.) Also by all presses Blizzard spent 100 million dollars on the game. Can you think of any strategy title that spent anywhere close? (Would be surprised if there are more than a few strategy games that cost 10 million) Again, I would understand if this game was released by a studio with limited budget and tight deadline. That's hardly the case for the game that's 12 years in coming.

 

@Seidon

I believe that most agree that the change list is .. . odd at best. You hardly even see BattleCruisers and Ultralisk anyway and what's the point? In TvT if I see my opp building BCs without being way ahead in resources I know I won. Cuz I know viking spam will beat BC spam anyway, barring some upgrade imbalance.



"I don't really mind the change to Reaper build time. it will still be a viable opening but they won't mass up as quickly.But will still put pressure on Zerg early game"

Exactly, as long as it remains a viable opening you still have to build your counter. It may make your counter a little easier and more likely to succeed, but fundamentally does not change the fact that you enter the mid-game at disadvantage.




"Siege tank nerf is...eh. It's not that big of a nerf, upgrade to +1 mech attack and you're back where you started. vs Zerg the only unit that will not be 1 shotted by a 0/0 Siege is now Hydras."

Someone posted on another site that this nerf may make Hydras more viable thus making your ground army stronger. I remain skeptical for the similar reasons you posted. I mean, it's not like the tanks cost an arm and leg to begin with so you can certainly afford to build one or two more or upgrade as you say, then hydras would die just as fast as before.

 

You guys gotta understand that "little" changes is the only way to balance a game like this. Forcing the Terran to upgrade to +1 mech just to make them as good as they are now? You just forced terran to spend 100/100, and 160 build time until their tanks are back in shape.

If they made broad sweeping changes it would just end up turning players off to the game, trust me. I was in beta and they had patches like once a week with nerfs/buffs, and they heard it when they made a change that was too large. Roaches used to be 1 supply, changed it to 2 in beta, the place went fucking apeshit.

These tiny changes are the way to go.

1v1 for Zerg is decent though. Team games end up crazy, the mobility of zerg really shines there, if you don't die insanely fast. Zerg is really susceptible to multiple people pushing you at once.