Virtua Fighter 5 Location Test Videos MEGA THREAD!!

In test4.wmv, Wolf interrupts a low rising attack with 2p.

Discuss.

 

definately WTF

 

OMG! I just watched that Jeffrey vid. WTF?!?! /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

I don't think so dude, ease of combo is not a factor at what I consider competent levels of play. You're too concerned with low-level Akira players getting an advantage, to which I say, who cares, they're low-level and Akira is hard enough to play with as it is anyway.

Goh is not and never was a combo character. Sure he doesn't seem to have a good bounce combo to which I say "SO.....WHAT!" He's been improved but in other ways. Alex you need to take a step backwards and stop looking at one mechanic (i.e. bounce combos) in isolation; consider the big picture.

Oh yeah, in any Evo/FT tier that I ever seen in my life, Goh and Jeffry are placed below Lei Fei (and only one tier with Lei Fei). I play them both regularly in my rotation, and guess what, I don't complain that they suck.

 

hi guys, long time no see, this is longhair from HongKong.
We hold a up-to-date VF5 streaming movie site, I wish you guys can enjoy it
http://www.hk-vf.net/staging/frame_set/tv2.html

 

The big picture is that bounce gives HIGHER damge options in MORE situations that were NOT POSSIBLE before.

IF BOUNCE SITUATION BENEFIT FOR CHARACTER
Akira benefit = YES
Goh benefit = NO

IF GOH = NEUTRAL and AKIRA = BETTER
TIERS = STRETCHED.

again you're twisting my words, i said this arguement is relative to BOUNCE only. Yes goh improved in other areas, but that was NEVER THE ARGUEMENT. Again i never said leifei SUCKED just LOW TIER. Please take the time to read my arguements properly.

btw have you looked at the latest arcadia tierlist
http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/show...e=0&fpart=1

 

IF NINJAS ARE FUCKING

Kage = YES
others = NO

IF OTHERS = NEUTRAL and KAGE = NINJA
ASSES = FUCKED

 

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The big picture is that bounce gives HIGHER damge options in MORE situations that were NOT POSSIBLE before.

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Really, like what?

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IF GOH = NEUTRAL and AKIRA = BETTER
TIERS = STRETCHED.

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First, I take it the above is your "argument." That the bounce has caused Akira to be better while Goh does not benefit, thus tiers are stretched. Am I right?

But your logic has a phallacy:

IF JOHN = AVERAGE LOOKS and JOE = DAMN GOOD LOOKS
GIRLS = LIKE JOE MORE THAN JOHN

But the conclusion is NOT necessarily true because there are other reasons why girls may like John over Joe, such as not being an asshole, bling bling, skills in bed, etc. That's why average looking guys like Talis (sorry Talis) can have such cool wife while studs like you and me are still unmarried.

Are tiers really "stretched" between Akira and Goh in VF5? How the hell can we know at this point?

 

part 1: have you looked at akiras + combos in VF5 or pais double bounce combos using +. You also said Leifei Combo Damage is up, guess what BOUNCE is involved there too. So yes the proof is out there.

saying that
AKIRA BOUNCE = BETTER is now TRUE
GOH NO BOUNCE = NO BENEFIT

AKIRA has now an increased advantage over GOH since VF4. btw you might want to check your spelling on fallacy, its a little creepy when you spell it that way.

Dandy
DANDY LOGIC = MYKE NINJA CHASTITY BELT

 

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PhoenixDth said:
again you're twisting my words, i said this arguement is relative to BOUNCE only. Yes goh improved in other areas, but that was NEVER THE ARGUEMENT.

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So... At the end you recon that there is no point in all that your arguing about bounce? After I read THIS sentence, I must think so.

It is like you will say (as the member of jury at some ägrarian expo) "this cow sucks, because her udder is smaller that other cows udders" and talk about it for whole day - and al this end with sentence "maybe she have the same ammount of milk per day as other cows, but that was NEVER THE ARGUEMENT".

Sorry, but this sucks...

[ QUOTE ]
PhoenixDth said:
saying that
AKIRA BOUNCE = BETTER is now TRUE
GOH NO BOUNCE = NO BENEFIT

AKIRA has now an increased advantage over GOH since VF4.


[/ QUOTE ]
ROFL. Only ONE post upper you stated that "you newer argue nothing apart from bounce combos". Now you do the same, saying this? If yes, you mean that all benefits Goh gains to VF5 does not count, becasue you don't care about nothing but bounces?

You mean that:
AKIRA = BOUNCES = BETTER DAMAGE
GOH = WHOLE GAME IMPROVEMENT = NO BENEFIT
AKIRA has now an increased advantage over GOH since VF4

Hmm... WTF???

Phoenix, if you are really arguing just bounces, start caring about whole game. Because if you will not stop caring just about one of many pieces of it and arguing it without taking a look at whole puzzle, all your argues have no use. Because arguing only damage means, that in VF4 Jeffry is the wery best character

 

Cheap shot! Doesn't phallacy fit with the analogy? And isn't it ironic you're disturbed given your avator? Might want to double check that buddy. That's an awful long carrot there.

Anyway, enough of the cat fighting, let's get back to the meat of the discussion--

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have you looked at akiras + combos in VF5

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Uhh...this throw wasn't comboable in VF4. The THROW got better--that the bounce enables a combo is secondary. Any other Akira examples?

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or pais double bounce combos using +.

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Do those bounce combos -- I presume > + > -- take more damage than > > ? From what I remember, that bounce combo doesn't take that much for Pai; her VF4 combo may still be a better option.

...And aren't we talking about Akira here?

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You also said Leifei Combo Damage is up, guess what BOUNCE is involved there too. So yes the proof is out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

...which I'd think you'd be happy about given that you think Lei Fei is so weak....but weren't we talking about Akira? Any other Akira examples?

[ QUOTE ]
saying that
AKIRA BOUNCE = BETTER is now TRUE
GOH NO BOUNCE = NO BENEFIT

AKIRA has now an increased advantage over GOH since VF4.

[/ QUOTE ]

ONLY in respect to COMBOS, but NOT NECESSARILY in terms of TIERS. Which is why your logic makes no sense and your argument about "tiers being stretched" invalid. (Whoa! "Stretched!")

 

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:
ONLY in respect to COMBOS, but NOT NECESSARILY in terms of TIERS. Which is why your logic makes no sense and your argument about "tiers being stretched" invalid.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the best and at the same time the most true argument used in this whole discussion

 

unicorn if you want to go argue a different argument go right ahead, i dont see why i have to.

Now for the discussion on hand, I think we're arguing about the greater picture of bounce combo. Considering you can do bounce pretty much off any float and you agreed that bounce actually DOES increase damage from combos, Doesnt Bounce benefit most if not all combo characters from VF4 to VF5. Akiras + throw seems to be maxed out with a bounce combo, as well as some of his other combos, without the bounce of course less damage, less potential. You've seen the videos, i dont know why you keep focusing on akira, i used akira as an example not as the topic. Look back on the original comment on the Akira vs Goh vid.

So now that Ice-9 does agree that Bounce combos does increase the potential and damage of Combo characters, cant it be safe to say that characters who benefit off bounce are now better in VF5.

If tiering is judged by a characters maximum potential, and bounce has increased the potential of these characters, I dont know how it doesnt make sense to you that since certain characters cant benefit from this new feature, that they are worse off in VF5 compared to characters who do benefit from this.

I would like you to prove me how how this doesnt affect tiering at all.

 

I'm guessing some characters benefit from having bounce moves. The others (without bounce moves) will probably benefit some other way (it may not yet be known how - but hopefully we'll find out). It's likely that these unknown benefits will keep characters balanced.

At least I hope so.

 

You did not get whan I am talking about, do you?

EDIT:
Just FYI: I take a picture of that Yoho juggle in high resolution and from length of lifebar and length of it's damage I calculate, that Goh have about 75 points, which Akira takes from him, right?
From MC Yoho, Akira can do F+P, Yoho, dbplm for about 92 damage in VF5 (damage calculated through the same method). In VF4, he can go for easy 90 damage. So... Where's the bigger damage thanks to bounce in this case?

Now... Lei Fei? Most of his juggles aren't benefint from bounce from what I can remember, but from df,df+P into doublekick

Hmm... Kage? In TFT? Yes, bounces sometimes... But I still les damage that VF4E version.

Jeffry? Ok, f+P+K with bounce is really stronger that it was. Other juggles are about the same as VF4E variants with old (and stronger) K,K,P

Hmm... Did I missed something?
But again... You did not get whan I am talking about, do you?

 

Bottomline is that saying that bouncecombos "stretches tiers" was wrong since it doesn't mean a lot in the big picture compared to other things. And, this is important, when you're talking about tiers you ARE talking about the big picture and you shouldn't be suprised to rub people the wrong way. Come on, you've hated bouncecombos ever since your tennisball, with pictures, analogy. Just admit that stretching tiers was kinda harshly said and let that be the end of this.

Akiras bounce, which was in the starting example, is kinda not even interesting for Aki players as compared to the changes to SDE and his 46p+g and Goh players don't give a crap about not being able to bounce (who knows? maybe they can with slamhit combos they used in VF4) in comparision to 46p knocking down on normalhit now, 33p or 66p+k, or their new string that they can use to end combos with. Btw, I'm still waiting for a Brad to use p+k in a combo to see what happens lol ^___^

I agree with PhoenixDth in one regards; and that is that I don't want to see these "easy" input slamcombos taking over and becoming the staple combos where earlier VF kinda was built up to be that the hardest combo to input (even in regards to watching footstance) was the one netting you the most damage. I wish them to always do less damage as it would get kinda dull imo in the longrun. But then again I'm happy cause of the buff this seems to give Jeff actually - kinda the opposite of stretching tiers imo. Right now I'm also concerned about wallhits>slams/certain OM's and so on getting up into tekkenesque style of damage.

Poor Sega; when they do nothing to the system people complain and when they do they'll get bs about it right? ^___^

Moving along; yeah, I'd also like to know wtf's up with 2p crushing risingkicks now. If that is the case there must have been a systemchange in regards to damagebase you can use to crush risings. It also seems extremly easy to do which is frightening. If anything; risingkicks needed a buff, not this type of nerf.

/KiwE

 

KiwE, I must agree with you.

I don't like idea of trampoline efect; and I don't like some characters (as Akira) have now easy wayes to perform strong juggles. And I agree with you in that part how many players of some characters are more soncerned about system changes in their character that in new bounce juggles.

But I don't agree wit Phoe, who is complaining about it without even thinking about any other changes characters have.

And BTW - maybe in time of final release everything will be different /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

I don't know if it's necessarily easy to crush rising attacks with low punch; I saw Wolf try doing it a couple more times in that match and instead he ate the hit. The timing is probably very strict, but regardless -a low punch!? I thought they were trying to reduce the usefulness of it in this one, what with stance dependencies, FC differences and whatnot (even though none of that has really been confirmed as far as I know).

I just really hope this doesn't turn VF into an oki-crazed game like Tekken, but if the properties of rising attacks have changed so much that it could be beaten like that, I don't think it's too far from happening.

In other news, I think bounce combos should definitely be techable. With a little practice, those sick combos we're seeing will become obsolete to seasoned players... but what about the newbies? They'll be eating 50% damage bounce combos all the time... so what happened to VF5 being friendly to newcomers? After thinking about it a bit, even Tekken doesn't have crap like this: all the "bounce" combos in Tekken are floaters, there's nothing at all resembling a mid-combo bounce effect.

 

in regards to wolf stuffing lei's rising attack -- is it possible that because lei ended up down because of one of his own (lei's) moves, that the properties of the rising attack have changed? the lei player appears to roll to the side first and then attempt a move when he is hit w/the low punch from wolf.

 

In tekken 5, if you will play Bryan or Nina, you will kill newcommer with 1 techrol-trapping juggle. If you will play some character with good okizeme (ie more that half character), you will kill your opponent before he will stand up from 1st knockdown. This is Tekken-style "crap". And in VF4... Beat any newcomer only by doin >+>>+... ror whole round - or with Lei Fei only while presing all the time. You can kill them badly from staggers, if they don't know how to escape them quickly. You can use moves which leads to harder TR situations that normal (Lion's ++/++) and then just jump on them all the day. If you wish to be "cheap" in VF4 (in terms how to beat newby), you can do it easily. VF5 only seems to be a little "better" in this, but not as good as Tekken 5 is... I hope. /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif