Virtua Fighter 5 Location Test Videos MEGA THREAD!!

that's actually one of my biggest gripes about Tekken, the awkward wake game when you are floored, probably the biggest turn off inTekken

 

perhaps Goh can bounce w/ +, ++ or ++?

the only character I've seen so far that can really use the bounce to reap previously impossible rewards is Jeffry, Akira's damage seems similar to VF4. I think it's too early to be saying it's unbalanced, and other things about the game are bothering me more. I also agree w/ Plague's guess: I think it can be TR'd, at least in the air, as it was since Evo.

btw I think the Goh player in that clip is pretty good. he TR'd from Akira's new throw, which I haven't seen yet, TE'd nicely a few times, and got the Basara off against a failed evade, pretty cool stuff. And that Akira combo didn't take half at all, not even close. I'd say it's probably in the 70-80 point range.

 

I think it would make sense to be able to tech the high bounces in combos, since there are already combos in VF that work off slams and flops and those are techable. Or perhaps bounce moves can only connect after certain launchers, keeping character weight, foot postiton, counter hits, ect. into consideration.

Also, with teching bounces, I can only imagine other options would be available such as tech traps or who knows what. It should still be a matter of knowing what to tech and when/when not to.

At least, that's the best I can think of on this.

 

Unicorn =Leifei does have bounce combos, i think heruru done it several times with the new overhead body check move. I think it was in some heruru vids with the test x.wmv. Kage TFT damage overall has been reduced regardless of bounce or not, but bounce does increase his maximum damage in VF5 than without bounce. My arguement does claim that bounce combos within VF5 cause more damage than without bounce. Again i ignored your previous post because you wanted to argue away from bounce.

So in general Bounce combos in VF5 do more damage than non bounce combos in VF5. agreed right? In that respect they only benefit a certain amount of characters in VF5 not all characters in the game. Agreed again? So im asking where is the balance in that. If something is causing imbalance, and sega has shown nothing at the moment to fix it, i can argue for the moment that tiers are stretched.

If you just look at how does bounce benefit Akira, Jeffry, Pai, Lei-Fei vs how will it benefit Wolf, Goh, or Shun, there already lies a problem.

Kiwe, unless they find a way to balance non combo characters that cannot benefit from bounce, Im guessing wolf will suffer the most of all VF5 characters with his poor strings, I still believe that bounce is stretching tiers. Untill sega does implement something defensively, like techrollable bounce, or something otherwise to balance this like plague said, I just see this causing more harm for VF5 than good.

The problem lies within the design team of AM2 themselves, i really believe they missed the boat with the direction of VF5. VF5 I see them taking a namco approach to creating sequels. More flair, more offensive, more moves, more attitude, and definately more eye candy. What I believe made previous VF's so interesting was that a complementary set of defensive techniques were always introduced to VF in every version. Whereas VF5 i feel that sega is trying so hard at looking cool and trying to grab a larger market that they forgot what made VF so great. Thats probably another reason why it feels like VF4.5 - because the other .5 of defensive and movement techniques are missing.

Its only weeks till the game is officially out in Japan and I dont see AM2 really taking the risk to add in any defensive techniques. I can only hope they balance out bounce in respect for the non string characters, but I seriously doubt AM2 at the moment because of the direction the game seems to be heading.

 

I agree with your post, but I must counter with question: How you know - or are you sure - that this "non-bounce" character don't have another add-ons, which will be as good as bounce combos?

My point is not to comparing charactes stricly only in VF5 (and strictly only in terms of bounce add-ons), but to comparing them what new/better they gained in compare to their VF4 veriosn and in compare to other VF5 chars. And are this bounce-having characters really benefit from bounces - like Akira, whos damage with bounces in VF5 is still the same as without in VF4? You know, like... Goh have tons of new strings and moves, how you know his damage potential is not (in terms of his way of fighting) comparable with Akira? Or how you know, that maybe he cannot bounce simply because with bounce his damage will be unreasonable high?

Hope I wrote my thoughts properly, to not come into some misunderstanding. I am simply complaining about "do you think that it is not possible that characters without bounces are improved in other wayes, and that they can be 100% comparable to that with bounces"?

BTW is that VF5 version in Tokyo arcades the latest verion of VF5 that AM2 have or not? Does anyone knows?

 

you're arguing away from bounce again and comparing VF4 damages to VF5, you need to compare VF5 non bounce damage to VF5 bounce damage. Its really doesnt make sense what arguments you're trying to hold when you start comparing the two games. Likewise how do you know gohs damage potential is comparable to akira either. Videos sadly show goh being not anything much more amazing than from VF4. From what I've seen in videos, bounce does increase damage IN VF5and only a select group of characters benefit from it. You gotta stop comparing VF4 to VF5 because they are different games, its like saying akiras DLC damage is down from VF3 to VF4 its completely unrelated. VF5 combo damage should be related to other combos within VF5. For example kages TFT does the most damage in VF5 with bounce than without, not the arguement that it does less than VF4 overall.

 

[ QUOTE ]
PhoenixDth said:
In that respect they only benefit a certain amount of characters in VF5 not all characters in the game. Agreed again? So im asking where is the balance in that. [...]

Kiwe, unless they find a way to balance non combo characters that cannot benefit from bounce, Im guessing wolf will suffer the most of all VF5 characters with his poor strings, I still believe that bounce is stretching tiers.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean balancing system factors for throwers like Wolf like the change of RN, throwclash and the nerf of P? That's also things that don't benifit all characters equally much if you argue in that way. Nothings to say that everything should benifit all characters equally much cause it's impossible .It's just overall balance in the end and that something isn't vastly overpowered which is of importance.

You yourself were afraid of how all characters were starting to look similar so just change your mindset and stop thinking of bouncecombos as something that every character *should* demand to have (launcher damage was never balanced between chars in the first place) or even a general system thing which *should* benifit everybody. For instance, nobody knows if all characters now have a turn-sideways move like Jeff, Kage and Wolfs new fullcircular kicks and it hasn't been explored fully the potenial from it.

Once again, nothing matters in the end cause if one systemthing benifits certain characters more then others it's just natural for it to do so. What possible systemchange wouldn't?

Besides, I think you're looking at bounce in the wrong way if you want to bring it up. The real benfit, damagewise, from earlier will imho be in crumble situations, not in general combos. But then again I'm more afraid of something like the new sidestun/crumble and how that would/will benifit certain characters more cause that's much harder to test properly at this point for balance - bounce isn't. It's quite straightforward. If it's a fuckup and will make combos boring they'll change it, it's very easy with a damage modifier. And they'll change it before we here in the west will even get to touch it.

I don't get how you feel that it's stretching tiers still. Do you believe that all characters with bouncecombos will be toptier cause of that or that the old toptier characters will go even further from the rest of the pack? Cause I definatly don't believe in either of those. I believe tiers will be quite vastly changed in VF5 though - and that's a good thing.

/KiwE

 

Everytime a system is added to VF, there is always a drawback to balance it, reversals rely on pure yomi, inashi and sabakis leaves you open to certain attacks, and evades leave you open to full attacks and throws where as bounce combos only benefit these select group of characters. Even in VF5 throw clash applies to everyone, but its still susceptible to larger attacks. There is no balancing factor in bounce combos in only benefits a select group, thats why its a unique situation that bothers the crap out of me. There is absolutely no risk involvement with bounce combos, it only benefits. If you played wolf, how happy would you be about the addition of bounce combos, while everyone else powers up, you just sit around and hope sega does something about your character.

 

I disagree that bounce combos are better than non-bounce combos as a rule for a given character in VF5. I agree with Bryan in that so far it seems that only Jeffry benefits from bounce combos, and even then I think only for + combos. Perhaps it's easier for Akira to do bounce combos for a given damage, but as Unicom analyzed, Akira has a better non-bounce yoho combo. Maybe there are conditions there but definitely not absolute enough to make generalizations.

But for Kage, I think his non-bounce and bounce TFT combos take approximately the same damage, and if I had to bet money I'd bet his non-bounce combo takes more damage given that most Kages in clips have favored TFT > knee > > + > +. I've already stated that Pai's > > seems to take more damage than her bounce combo ender.

Anyway IMO this is a relatively minor point. I really don't think bounce combos are that big of a deal. It's more an aesthetic thing than a fundamental system change if you think about it.

Finally, Alex, keep in mind that it took a while for mutliple throw escapes to be discovered in VF4 and ARE was discovered only after...what, a year, two? It's just WAY too early to be making any strong conclusions about VF5...and I am sure even where imbalance occurs, versions A, B, C, etc. will fix it.


To switch gears, I think LP interrupting rising attacks is a worrisome change. I'm not worried about LP particularly, but attacks like, say, Jeffry's which are high damage, only throw counterable, and which may be easy to interrupt rising attacks with. I.e., I worry that lots of characters would have a Shun equivalent of + but better.

I'm not worried about VF5 being like Tekken because TRs and QRs protect the defender a HECKUVA lot more than they do in Tekken. The worst case scenario is that people will choose to emphasize TR/QRs over rising attacks.

 

i feel like im repeating myself over and over again

bounce combos are an added benefit with no drawback

certain characters get an advantage from this

other characters do not

there is no penalty in bounce combos only gain

not everyone gains from bounce in VF5 like systems in previous games

this is unfair

there is no penalty in bounce combos only gain

this is unfair

not everyone gains from bounce in VF5 like systems in previous games

this is unfair

 

OK I see we will not be able to understand each other on this issue.

 

actually, non combo characters like Wolf gets a huge boost in threat and potency due to the new throw mechanics.

I think we should still hold off on judgement especially in the discussion of tiers for VF5 until we have much more data on the game.

 

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

I'm not worried about VF5 being like Tekken because TRs and QRs protect the defender a HECKUVA lot more than they do in Tekken. The worst case scenario is that people will choose to emphasize TR/QRs over rising attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. It seems like rising kicks is only interruptable based on that vid during the execution frames. You will won't be able to hit people off the ground like Tekken, so I think it's a fair and balanced change and adds more depth to the game.

 

Phoenix - I started to write another long reaction, but then I notice how meaningless it is. We both have a arguments, we both have our way of arguing. But there is no mean in arguing now, becasue

1) we don't know bounces are techrollable or not
2) we don't know if that version on arcades is last one (during that long test AM2 stated minimally once that version they have is completly different from verion arcades have. And - as you stated - because VF5 release is in few weaks, I don't believe that THIS version is actual one - too many old bugs are still involved)
3) we don't know max combos yet, minimally we cannot be sure
4) I think from our discussion we both thinks that bounces are tekken-ish and stupid and we don't like them at all /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif
5) all reasonable aruments are in the arena, if we cannot make any conclusion now, we won't make it in any near future

So i think that wait for final release and for japanes players oppinons about final wersion will be better. Or we can discusse it again - to kill time we must spend waiting for PS3 VF release /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BTW I think that crazy short recovery after failed evade is something which can carry our atraction more. Because when I first time saw, how quickly you can do evade-evade-evade (all failed) in a row, I was like... You know.

 

Boys, boys, come on now...

I know you cant really tell from the videos that are out now the actual usefulness of refloat moves.

What are its advantages? Relatively high-damage combos, combos that push you far across the stage.

What are its drawbacks? The timing is actually hard as *fuck*, and if you do not enter it perfectly you get a slam type of effect where your opponent hits the ground hard. So, say Akira slams down with his 43P, then does double palm? Well, if you get up fast enough you can get at least elbow on him (as double palm will have completely whiffed).

You have to remember most people have hundreds of matches, and with downloading vidoes at 100 yen a piece, people are only saving (i.e. paying for) videos with crazy shit in them. There are far more failed attempts at refloating than successful ones.

Any character with a move that forces crouch on block, or that caused stomach crumple in FT, can do refloat. So far I have seen the following characters use refloat:

Akira, Goh, Lei Fei, Vanessa, Shun, Jacky, Kage, Sarah, Brad, Wolf, Jeffry, Pai, El Blaze, Eileen, Lau, Aoi, and Lion. Yep, that's everyone.

With no book yet it is hard to tell exactly how advantageous it is to use the refloat, but I can say it differs by character. Obviously everyone has seen the Pai/Akira floats, but how about Shun? I have gotten ring outs in stages with low walls by doing Chouwan, P, 6K+G...that's it. Akira's 43P refloat does not have enough height to do that. So all in all, I think the advantages are different by character.

It is still too early to know, and from what I have heard from the people actually writing the book, there are several changes coming in the final version (which is currently only playable at Sega's offices in Haneda!).

My two cents.

And oh yeah, Lei Fei has 2 combos already that take off over half life, one using Arrow Punch-->Refloat, the other using his new jump-->low K (stagger), followed by the VF equivalent of unabated anal rape.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Unicorn said:
BTW I think that crazy short recovery after failed evade is something which can carry our atraction more. Because when I first time saw, how quickly you can do evade-evade-evade (all failed) in a row, I was like... You know.

[/ QUOTE ]

People have been doing that since VF4...

 

Well glad to hear theres some changes coming, I really hope it includes major changes to Goh and some defensive techniques. I feel like those are the 2 weakest things in VF5 now.

oh well i can only hope

 

now now, before anyone claim ' how hard can it be?'

I already said this b4. Anything that is going on right now in this thread is pure speculation and unsubstantiated at best.

For anyone to think that it's easy based on the vids, I will use an example.

Staple AKira combo in VF4 is standing palm, p, double plm.

In 5, the timing for the double palm to connect is VERY hard. Even mukki had trouble in the initial stages.

(ah please, don't anyone claim they are better than mukki)

It's like watching Kage's dragon punch combo in a vid. It's might seem like a simple dragon punch, followed by two punch n a kick.

I mean, how hard can it be?

Answer : fucking hard.

For anyone that refuses to believe either me / M-Shun. Well by all means..go ahead. I know you superior lot are out there.

 

Tiers compressed

[ QUOTE ]
mukatsuku_shun said:

Any character with a move that forces crouch on block, or that caused stomach crumple in FT, can do refloat. So far I have seen the following characters use refloat:

Akira, Goh, Lei Fei, Vanessa, Shun, Jacky, Kage, Sarah, Brad, Wolf, Jeffry, Pai, El Blaze, Eileen, Lau, Aoi, and Lion. Yep, that's everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the news, sir. Most appreciated.

 

After sitting down and actually playing VF5 quite a bit, characters like Wolf now scare the hell out of me.

And anyone who says Goh isn't strong has no idea. They gave him a lot more combo stuff but kind of nerfed his throws. I'd say he's not as throw oriented as before but he has some good stuff.