Virtua Fighter 5 Location Test Videos MEGA THREAD!!

Very interesting and informative post!!!!!

Even if it's not confirmed information, it's still an interesting concept!

 

I'm hoping that theories w/ regard to clash being based on type of attack are true. I don't wanna see the clash when I've guessed correstly w/ a big attack from disadvantage.

It's nice to Defend successfully, but I like Offending successfully better /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Jeff: I think the problem you're talking about w/ Goh in VF4 was mainly an issue w/ Goh, and not the game so much. Sega seems hell-bent on nerfing the character, which I can't understand. Maybe I'm crazy, but off the top of my head all character's good Mid launchers are 17 frames, and those that are 16 usually require from crouch or commands? Most of the good 14 frame launchers are high right? I know this is where Goh's + is weaker than everyone elses, but I think they should fix Goh there.

Also, what you're talking about is right w/ regards to people using Attacks even from -8 or more, I used to try this myself against some people, say when Akira's knee in Evo is guarded, I figured if they were one frame too slow, I'd get 'em. (I understand myke's point though, if throw's guaranteed, it's guaranteed).

I know Meidaime Chacky used to play Akira in Evo, and sometimes after having is DblPm guarded, he'd buffer another one, and it'd work on some people.

Bryan

 

I've been keeping up with this thread and I've got a few things to add... This information is based on my first hand knowledge and may not be accurate anymore now that there has been a system update...

Anyway, I have seen throw clashes with kicks like Jacky's standing kick, so attacks other than punches and quick hits can "clash"...

I remember during one fight my opponent was running up to throw me, and I knew he would so I tried to hit him with Jacky's + (was + in FT)... This clashed with the throw... I'll admit it was more than a bit frustrating since I knew he was going to throw, and there's nothing I love more than hitting people who are gonna throw with +... There was no adv/disadv here since no one had blocked a move, just a slow reaction on my part...

One of the first things I tried when I started playing the test was OM at advantage... For example Jacky's elbow stagger into OM... This yielded crap for results... I didn't try OM at larger advantages than that, but it could probably work...

OMs seem very easy to be hit out of, much moreso than DMs... They can't be used interchangeably...

I noticed in one clip Kage OMed Akira's standing and got a side crumple... Kage was far away from Akira when it happened, but I believe Akira started his attack before Kage did the OM... Maybe distance is beneficial to not getting hit out of OM, but I doubt sega wants to encourage people to back off and then do an OM for big damage...

I feel like there is a lot to learn about how to integrate the OM into your offense for big damage.. It has the potential to be the biggest change to the game from FT...

-Alex

 

Congratulations Alex, you only have about 30 new stances to learn now. HAHAHAHA

 

thanks for the info SG. I'm still hoping for the best, but some of the info in your post now has me more worried. Jacky's + is basically an elbow class mC tool, and some characters (like Pai) use just their standing as a combo starter/-14 mC hit.

So does this mean that attacks like Akira & Lau's +, Wolf's +, Jeffry's +, etc will now always just get a clash against throw attempts, regardless of advantage/disadvantage? Your story would seem to suggest so.

These are pretty substantial attacks, leading to 25% damage combos in some cases, which is very different from a or low / poke.

Bryan

 

Seems like leis got 1 new stance completely and a ton more stance cancels. It looks like the other "new" stance might be Koko Shiki face forward with a lot of new options. Its too early to tell if any of them are actually useful or not, other than the stance cancel out of .

but wait omg is that a decent looking jab i see for once? +1 on block?!? i can only pray.

 

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Like someone mentioned earlier (Srider maybe?), we saw this alluded to in FT with the different types of counter hits. By reducing the reward on counter hits with "safe" moves, like and , I think they were trying to encourage the use of bigger, riskier moves if you guessed for reverse nitaku.

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I'm not sure I agree with that. From the standpoint of the player at disadvantage, the tiered major counters didn't matter in that, with successful reverse nitaku, you'd mostly be countering a throw attempt. The pokes that worked before FT to regain advantage still worked the same, it was the risk/reward factor for reverse nitaku with big attacks that changed (Risk: greater due to the threat of heavy red counter by the advantaged player; Reward: lower because a major counter of a throw only nets a small yellow counter, right?).
If anything, I thought the change just reinforced vanilla nitaku for the advantaged player (strengthening the attack tine of the fork), and the new clash seems to do the same (strengthening throws). From the disadvantaged point of view, a or is still a reasonable get out of jail free card. If AM2 really meant to encourage high-risk reverse nitaku, the clash would leave the thrower with the advantage.

 

Srider:
Is it confirmed that throws are slower? It could also be that a lot of moves recover faster on block. I would be surprised though if the clash occurs when the thrower has only small advantage...I would expect it to happen a lot more often then. I'll start paying attention to see if I can spot any counter attacks on throw attempts in clips.

Supergolden:
What's your thought on that given your play experience? Did you get a clash when you attempted a throw at small advantage?

 

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If AM2 really meant to encourage high-risk reverse nitaku, the clash would leave the thrower with the advantage.

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Without knowing the system yet...

What we're talking about would just be squaring the risk/reward. Big RN yields big damage with big risk. Before, Little RN yielded pretty good damage in FT(what's the damage for jacky's +?) with less risk. Perhaps now, Little RN yields a close quarters reset for less risk.

& that's the situation that has me intrigued. Assuming that reset doesn't advantage one player over the other (with the possible exception of the yomi belonging to the player who played for the close reset) we have something like our ready? GO! scenario exept this time from throw range. JUMP BALL!

edit: looked at the pe clip again and it looks precisely like Ready?GO!

It doesn't look like am2 is aiming for anything but for a fun game with some wicked layers.

 

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Supergolden:
What's your thought on that given your play experience? Did you get a clash when you attempted a throw at small advantage?

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From my experience I mostly found to be on the wrong end of the clash, frustrated that my attack didn't hit my opponent... This probably has something to do with my play style, but I rarley got a clash when I went for a throw... I don't remember enough to say for sure if I got clashes more often when I went for throws at small or large adv situations...

-Alex

 

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If AM2 really meant to encourage high-risk reverse nitaku, the clash would leave the thrower with the advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

These were my thoughts as well. I think it will also enforce the use of proper system techniques. A governer so to speak.

Edit: The caveat to doing this will also make VF play much more textbook... good or bad? Depends on your playstyle.

 

So just to summarize...the clash could be based on:

- Frame advantage. It definitely works at high advantage, unclear whether it works on small advantage.

- Damage of attack clashed. It has definitely clashed with attacks of relatively small damage (I saw it clash with Goh's and someone in a previous posting said it can also clash with a attack), unclear whether it will clash with big damage attacks.

- Or some combination of the above.

I wonder if the clash could also be based on the recovery of the attack? That could be another way to measure high risk. Has anyone confirmed whether it would clash with low attacks? Anyway, pretty interesting. This definitely gives the advantage back to the throw characters like Goh, Aoi, Wolf, Kage, etc. who can now attempt throws in a match with less risk.

 

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ice-9 said:

So just to summarize...the clash could be based on:

- Frame advantage. It definitely works at high advantage, unclear whether it works on small advantage.

- Damage of attack clashed. It has definitely clashed with attacks of relatively small damage (I saw it clash with Goh's and someone in a previous posting said it can also clash with a attack), unclear whether it will clash with big damage attacks.

- Or some combination of the above.

I wonder if the clash could also be based on the recovery of the attack? That could be another way to measure high risk. Has anyone confirmed whether it would clash with low attacks? Anyway, pretty interesting. This definitely gives the advantage back to the throw characters like Goh, Aoi, Wolf, Kage, etc. who can now attempt throws in a match with less risk.

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Actually, I initially thought it definitely works at small advantage, and then saw it work at larger disadvantage. This is why I proposed the idea that throws have been slowed. It can definitely clash with both P and K based attacks. Low attacks do not clash with throws. LP will for sure always beat the throw if it's not guaranteed. Standing lows is another story though so I don't know.

I'm going to go on a limb here and say that the clash (I theorize) will only occur with limb based attacks. Meaning that moves that are airborne or body based like Jumping knees, body check, etc won't clash. If this is the case, then effectively the game forces players to do very very high risk attacks (long exe or low attacks) to get any type of damage from a disadvantaged situation.

 

If 2P won't clash and P or K will (+ you can do less ecsapec into ETEG), won't this leed only to more abusing of relativly safe 2P in disadvantage situations instead of using more risky attacks?

 

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s it confirmed that throws are slower? It could also be that a lot of moves recover faster on block. I would be surprised though if the clash occurs when the thrower has only small advantage...I would expect it to happen a lot more often then. I'll start paying attention to see if I can spot any counter attacks on throw attempts in clips.

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what i'd like to know more is "what disadvantage can you duck / avoid a throw" ~ seeing as being unable to do this beyond -1 in VF4 is what actually caused nitaku with throw~(!!)

and being able to backward crouch dash a throw at mid disadvantage would suck 0 _0 even if throws are slower and would catch a forwards crouch dash, ,i dont know what the range and proporties of the window are. (and if it's like tekken, then mann, VF's gonna suck, LOL).

ive probably missed alot of information here, i havent been keeping up well /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif sorry, (what's a throw clash?~ attack interupting a throw?)

 

After watching 060401_mahna_GO_vs_JE.wmv I thought it would be good to just write how the clash occured in the fight somewhere in 0:33. Anyway, so after Jeffry's + (which was blocked by Goh), the other player goes for a throw. It's just a guess, beacause frame data probably changed, however if we use FT frame data, that would mean that Jeffry has +6 advantage over Goh after escaping the throw. However, he does a slight dash towards Goh and aims for a throw, when Goh seems to attack with either or maybe (and more probably) . I don't know how many frames did Jeffry lose to do the dash, however if the throws are slower than it is sure that the throw wasn't guaranteed there. (it wouldn't be anyway) Goh's has an exe of 15 frames, when Jeffry's throw COULD be for example 10-12 frames.
Jeffry has the advantage of 3 to 5 frames, +6 frames after escaping Goh's throw, eventually -2 maybe for the tiny dash, andmaybe+1, beacause Goh is turned. Anyhow, it leaves them with the difference of about 10 frames. It is still quite big advantage, so what's the upper limit for the frames adv, or disadv. when the clash can occur I wonder....Anyway, probably I'm wrong, so correct me please, but I'll try to analyze more of the clashes. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

ohh~!! i saw the clash~!!! (i see now, hmmm) seemed like goh did a f+p mabye.

 

I am watching all videos again now, and I noticed that when Aoi reverses a low full circular move, the other player doesn't receive a stagger, and doesn't get "red/green stick" moving on the side on the screen. Are her reversals better now? Maybe the advantage is bigger now? Anyway, it's in AOvsKA.wmv in 1:13, and other Aoi'd fights as well.

In KAvsAO.wmv there is another clash /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif This one is between Kage's throw and Aoi's + I think. Unfortunately I don't know what disadvantage she has after Kage's new move, but it doesn't look as a big one and it's normal hit. So no speculations here
Yet, there is simmilar situation in KAvsAO-2.wmv at 2:43, it's Kage's throw again and also Aoi's +, but this time after Kage's , which on normal hit is +1, which again gives us around 10 frames of difference (if throws are slower). Maybe we can think of any simmilarities in all clashes? Help me people plz /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif

OK! I give up ! few seconds later Kage tries to throw the lady, but they clash again! Why? How? It was a red counter from the new step move or whatever, but it was good enough to beat anythin, and it was even impossible to see what Aoi tried to do /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif
This is pretty f......strange /versus/images/graemlins/deadpan.gif
And another deep thought.....What if Aoi used or some other fast move that's fast enough to make the whole situatuation around +/- 10 frames? Damn....I need some info AM2 !!! Give us the final ver. of the game already !!!

And ANOTHER one....in Shun vs Brad (Namflow vs TenshilLabu) at 1:16 there is another clash between Brad's throw this time and Shun's ++. Although he was in the middle of the move it still clashed, and maybe because it was already in the middle it could clash.

My final guess is that it has to be around 10 frames, which means it's crap and I'm wrong. That's why my second guess is that maybe Goh was doing one of his Sabaki mid punches in the video mentioned earlier, as well as Aoi, and Shun were. I still have to look for some other clashes, but who know, maybe Sabaki moves clash with throws.....I dunno....Forget about it. /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
But even if....then why the hell Brad and Shun DON'T clash when the same moves meet later in the match.
OK.....just tell me, and I'll drop the subject. /versus/images/graemlins/indifferent.gif