Virtua Fighter 6 (General Discussion)

EmX, I know what you mean about sweeping generalizations,

But Po is right (to an extent). Nintendo's president just cut his wages 50% as an admission of personal responsibility for falling stock prices. This just does not happen in the west.

In Japan it seems that losing face is still a big deal.

 

That's true matteo, although I'd imagine it's largely symbolic for someone in a position like Iwata. Steve Jobs gets paid a $1 salary at Apple for example. The wealth is in the stock options and bonuses.

 

EMX If you look closely at my post you will see:

"But I am under (perhaps naive) opinion that the Japanese are motivated by more than just profit. For some reason I'm under the impression (maybe too many movies) that honor, family honor, saving face, and all that stuff are also motivation for Japanese families"

No sweeping generalizations here. I made it clear that it could be a naive opinion gotten from watching too many movies

So I was asking the question, not making the assertion.

Does saving face mean anything anymore in Japanese business? Is Japanese honor involved in business anymore? Was it ever? I'm throwing these questions out to people on this site who are familiar or intimate with Japanese business practices.

And if honor and saving face means anything in Japanese business Does Sega realize they are taking a pummeling at the hands of Namco, and Capcom?

Honest question mates...

 

The former president of General Motors was accepting a payment of just $1 a year if I'm not mistaken. The company and its prestige seemed to matter more to him than his personal profit.

 

My father has done much business with Japanese companies over the years, and I'm of Chinese descent. My father once did the same thing as Iwata. He too took a voluntary 50% pay cut when his company was doing badly. At the same time however, his business partner did everything to milk the company for all it was worth. So you get some honourable people and some who are not.

Each culture has their own little oddities. The Chinese do things different to the Japanese, and in fact Chinese in different parts of the world can act very differently themselves. Taiwan Chinese tend to not apologise as much because for them, an apology means deep regret and bearing full responsibility. Singapore Chinese and Japanese apologise a bit more because it is more an expression of condolence and support.

According to my dad, Japanese companies tend to be very organised and by the book. They follow strict chains of command and do everything with more politeness and decorum than most western companies. This does not mean however that some of them don't do the usual dodgey business practices behind the scenes. In fact it can be more scary because it's even harder to tell if you're dealing with shady companies, since more stuff is below the surface.

When times were still good for the Japanese in the 80's, sure the big companies were honourable, but when their bubble economy burst, many companies threw their honour away to claw back as much money as they could, the same way the banks did during the global financial crisis.

A lot of that honour and face is only on the surface, and you'll find that American companies have the same kind of things, just in different form.

Yes, honor and face are still important and have always been. That's just the Japanese way of saying good reputation is important. There are just a few extra customs and procedures involved with them, same way the British have many odd congeniality procedures. It's not all so different from you guys once you take all the fluff away. In any country you get the heroes who will give their all for the company, and the jerks who will try to run with as much money as they can.

 

Orientalism is still rampant among those who don't know much about their own culture to begin with. Let me give a first hand example. When our company was having a tough time, every employee making over 50k took 10% paycut. The officers took 20% paycut. Not as dramatic as 50% or $1 pay but such practices in the West are not as uncommon as you think.

And let me tell you a little about this Japanese honor thing. Much of so called Bushido is an invention during the Tokugawa shogunate. By that time most of the open warfare in Japan has ceased and for the most part the samurai didn't have to fight for living, and many of them in fact spent most of time, and made most of their income, doing bureaucratic paper works and managing their property. During this time they developed ritualized warrior philosophy _precisely_ because they weren't really warriors and could get away talking about some bullshit that didn't have a place in a real battlefield.

Prior to this period, when they actually had to fight wars, their philosophy was much less ritualized and much more practical. If you want to read the REAL Asian philosophy of war read the Art of War by SunZi. It talks about Dao, (the Way) but only to the degree it's practical. It talks all kinds of underhanded ways, as well as scientific mindset, to win the war but also warns that war should be the last resort because of prohibitive costs (something Bush and Co should have read.) Many Samurai, especially during the warring period, studied the Art of War and many other Chinese classics. Also remember Musashi himself used many underhanded tactics to beat his opponents--again more of Art of War than what people think Bushido was.

 

My point was not that Iwata cut his salary by half (from 2 million dollars to 1) because the company was doing badly,

he cut his salary because he is responsible for nintendo doing badly. he apologized, not with words only (like we do in the west) but with facts.

if we look at corporate responsibility in the west (look at the BP oil spill, or the banks cock up) nobody did fuck all.

I remember when there had been an incident in the osaka underground because train conductors were under so much pressure not to be late, the president of Japan Rail went to all the families, in person, during the funeral, to apologize.

In person! not some shitty copy-paste letter. he had to bear people anger and tears and screams. that kind of stuff is unheard of in the west afaik.

http://www.apimages.com/OneUp.aspx?st=de...mediatype=Photo

 

Don't forget the president Of SEGA Japan who gave all his personal savings away to bring them back from bankruptcy, though he died shortly after and his money didn't get them out of the red.

I never hear stuff like that with western corporations either.

 

In any case I don't know what "honor" has to do with continuing a franchise that doesn't make money. (Which obviously means it's not wanted by the general public and consumers.)

If anything puling a plug on a losing product seems to be an "honorable" thing to do for shareholders, employees, business partners, and their families, and what have you.

It's a frakking video game. There are things in life more important than money, but video games are not one of them.

 

Sega used to make games even when it knew that they would not sell millions (shenmue 2, Rez, just to name a few). It was not all about the bottom line, and we loved it for that (to the extent you can love a multinational corporation lol).

Its disappointing to see all the money going to a few big games and the market for niche games dying out.

 

I assure you that Sega made no games and no systems that they _knew for sure_ would bomb, despite their record telling otherwise. If they made games just for the love of making games while knowing they would lose money, it means they deceived their shareholders and deserve to go bankrupt.

 

I think sega made games that it knew they had limited marketability, despite (or because)of their status a niche games/ potential cult classics, say for example Releasing panzer dragoon saga at the end of the saturn life, in limited numbers...its like they WANTED to sell it to a few (6000?) sega fans.

 

Thanx El_Twelve your posts explains a lot, especially for someone like me who just trying to get a answer.

@Hyunster Its no secret that for years AM2/Sega has had what all critics agree is the best 3D fighter on the market. Virtua Fighter was held as the standard by which to compare everything else coming down the pike. You could not bring up Tekken or Soul Calibur without comparing how far short it fell from Virtua Fighter. That was known (I believe not certain though) around the world.

AM2/Sega had to have some degree of pride in this game. It was afterall adopted into the Smithsonian. They had to be aware of the rave reviews it received and the fact that it was the gold standard.

And to see Namco, and Capcom now walking away with AM2/Segas trophies, badges of honor, and the belt has got to get Sega's fur up a little

I was just hoping if we can't appeal to the profit motive in order to get VF5FS on consoles, maybe we could appeal to their sense of pride.

At the very least the treat of an new console version of VF might keep Namco and Capcom honest.
Because at the moment it seem like Namco is leaning more toward the 2D success attibutes than improving on their 3D fighting mechanics.

Somebody's got to keep the torche for the 3D fighting game on consoles, and if not Sega/AM2 and VF, I think we're in trouble, Especially with those KaPoW animations found in the new Tekken

 

on a derailing note, I saw a vid of the new tekken and the animations are stiff as usual (unlike SC5, that one at least its getting better animations at least)

 

MAtteo, you misunderstood, when I posted KaPow I didn't mean good graphics, I meant literally KaPow, you know its a feature in Tekken 6 that you can turn on for each character and when certain kinds of strikes land you get like a cartoon bubble with S!@# like KapOwie, I can't remember what the exact saying is, I'll try out later to see.

I brought it up because it looks like something you would see in a 2D fighting game. And since SSIV and other 2D fighters are enjoying a revival of sorts, some changes in Tekken 6 look like they were jumping on the 2D bandwagon, with the Kapow cartoons for certain strikes.

The fireballs are actually too much for me already, now Namco has added KaPowie! to some of the animations (even if you can turn it off), Without a new threat of a console version of VF to keep Tekken and SC honest, who knows what Tekken and SC might stoop to while jumping on the 2D fighting game bandwagon.

 

A new Ray Tracing arcade board and console are coming from Sega, with Virtua Fighter 6 being prepped for both.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Next Generation Sega Console To Be Capable Of Real Time Global Illumination
July 27, 2011 staffsegaleaks Leave a comment Go to comments

SegaLeaks this morning spoke with an engineer within Caustic Graphics (wholly owned subsidiary of Imagination Technologies) who informed us that not only will Sega’s next generation console be capable of real time ray tracing but also real time global illumination, a far more advanced technique.

An official unveil of the new system is expected within the next 10 months.

- Zach Morris</div></div>
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/2011/07/2...e-illumination/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WORLD EXCLUSIVE : Sega Signs With ARM
July 29, 2011 staffsegaleaks Leave a comment Go to comments

SegaLeaks can today reveal in this world exclusive report that Sega has signed ARM Holdings plc of Great Britain to provide the central processor for both it’s next generation arcade board for amusement arcades and it’s next generation home entertainment system for living rooms around the world.

The CPU in question shall be a custom design unrelated to the company’s next generation mobile processor the Cortex A-15. The design for Sega is said to be Multi-Core, Multi Threading, 64-Bit, utilizing out of order execution.

Further details are expected soon.

Stay tuned.

- Zach Morris</div></div>
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/world-exclusive-sega-signs-with-arm/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How Could SEGA SAMMY’s Consumer Business Lose $50 mln In One Quarter?
July 30, 2011 staffsegaleaks Leave a comment Go to comments

$50 mln in one quarter, if Sega kept this rate up for the remaining three quarters, that would equate to a full year net loss 0f $200 mln for Sega Sammy’s consumer business. These are the sort of losses Sega was registering between 1998-2001, which led to the company leaving the hardware business and going third party.

So, how could SEGA SAMMY’s consumer business be losing so much money? According to the insider SegaLeaks spoke to, the answer is actually quite simple, it’s the hidden R&D costs for the development of the company’s realtime Global Illumination based next generation console.

As the new console is only a year away, the hefty R&D costs are revealing themselves in the company’s balance sheets.

- Zach Morris</div></div>
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/2011/07/3...in-one-quarter/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Known Titles In Development For Next Sega Format
July 31, 2011 staffsegaleaks Leave a comment Go to comments

The following are currently known titles in development for Sega next generation console.

Shenmue III (Yu Suzuki)

New Alien Title (Creative Assembly)

New Sonic Title (Sonic Team)

Virtua Fighter 6 (AM2)

Both the Sonic and Alien titles are set for launch day release, whilst Shenmue III is targeting holiday 2013, with Virtua Fighter 6 seeing release 6-12 months after it’s arcade debut.

- Zach Morris</div></div>
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/2011/07/31/known-titles-in-development-for-next-sega-format-4/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sega Partners With NEC Corporation, Fujitsu Limited and STMicroelectronics
July 31, 2011 staffsegaleaks 4 comments

SegaLeaks can today exclusively reveal that Sega has partnered with NEC Corporation, Fujitsu Limited and STMicroelectronics for the manufacturing of the company’s next generation arcade and console hardware.

ST, NEC and Fujitsu shall fab Sega’s next generation hardware using their advanced 28nm manufacturing process.

- Zach Morris</div></div>
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/2011/07/3...croelectronics/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LEAKED : New Sega Console Spec Sheet
August 9, 2011 staffsegaleaks Leave a comment Go to comments

SegaLeaks this morning received an updated spec sheet for Sega’s next generation arcade and home entertainment platforms. The spec sheet was provided to us by an insider at Sega’s Japanese offices.

CPU : ARM 64-Bit, Quad Core, Multi Threading, Out of Order Execution

GPU : Imagination Technologies PowerVR RTX with on-die Caustic ray tracing technology

AUDIO : Sega Custom DSP 32-Bit 192KHz 7.1ch HD Audio

RAM : Unknown

API : Imagination Technologies OpenRL

RENDERING ENGINE : Imagination Technologies Brazil 3.0

- Zach Morris</div></div>
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/leaked-new-sega-console-spec-sheet-updated/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sega Signs With Imagination Technologies
August 10, 2011 staffsegaleaks Leave a comment Go to comments

SegaLeaks can exclusively reveal that Sega has signed with Imagination Technologies for it’s next generation home video entertainment system and it next generation arcade board.

Imagination Technologies shall provide Sega with a PowerVR RTX with on-die Caustic ray tracing technology. In conjunction to this Imagination shall also provide Sega with ray tracing API OpenRL and ray tracing rendering engine Brazil 3.0

Both systems utilizing these technologies are expected for release in calendar year 2012.

- Zach Morris</div></div>
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/sega-signs-with-imagination-technologies-2/

 

I'm fairly sure that website is either a joke, or run by a complete lunatic.

 

I just did a search on the possibility of Sega coming back into the console business, and there are a lot of sources talking about it.

 

my heart just skipped a beat..

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sega Next Generation Arcade Hardware Set For AOU 2012 Debut
August 18, 2011 staffsegaleaks Leave a comment

SegaLeaks can today exclusively reveal that Sega’s next generation Ray Tracing capable arcade board (the amusement counterpart of Sega’s next gen console) shall see it’s grand unveil at next years All Nippon Amusement Machine Operator’s Union (AOU) Show. The 2012 event as always shall be held in the month of February.

Virtua Fighter 6 is expected to launch the new hardware.

- Zach Morris

Categories: Report</div></div>
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/