Virtua Fighter popularity... Relaunch?

Because Tekken as it currently is is shallow as fuck?

 

The movelist could be simplified a bit and some other stuff, like others have said.



The core of vf is mixups and that can be preserved pretty easily.

 

Simplified != VF.

Again Tekken has massive move lists as well, many characters more than VF characters. And Tekken has a much larger cast so the total amount of movies is greater then VF's total.

If you want short move lists you shouldn't be playing Tekken or VF.

 

Maybe he was saying "simplified" as in "making moves easier to execute".

On that subject, I'm all for hard-to-execute moves as long as it makes sense, e.g. I've never agreed with Akira's DLC pre-VF5 being hard to execute (I'm all for how it currently is in VF5R), but I can understand (and agree with) why Kage's DPoD is hard to execute.

 

There are a few things that if i see changed I'll probably stop playing VF
1. Customizable move-sets- Ok seriously, do you realize the implications of this? It means COMPLETE unbalance and complete cheapness. You'll see the same few moves on every character and it would just be a shitfest for 10 year olds. If you want to do certain moves THEN CHOOSE THAT CHARACTER, don't be like "I'm brad and i have shitty throws.. it whud be awesome if i cud customize and get wolfs throws!" thats RETARDED, the reason why brad has shitty throws is cause he has really good and fast mids.
2. Discarding Brad... ok ill probably still play but I really like brad for some reason :*(, hes my theme on xbox lol. Also i think goh is also a really cool character I don't really play him but I feel a connection... hes so evil, kinda ugly, scarred, blue skin, i mean I really feel for tha guy. And then theres jeffry who even though he looks really gross boasts about his phisque and hes just a random fishermen who happens to be a top fighter IN THE WORLD lol..
3. Complete model customization- This will lead to a shitton of hitbox issues... alot of characters would suck or be incredibly strong if they were larger and vis versa. Some of the smaller characters would be WAY easier to hit if they were bigger and stances wouldnt work right either. I think you get the point.

The main reason I love VF is because its so amazingly balanced, taking that away would ruin it...
Also I think the wall-combos in VF5R make rounds WAY to short.. but I haven't played so who knows..

anyway but ya they SERIOUSLY need to revamp the game story-appeal wise so VF doesn't die and we can get more competition and people to play with.
They need better advertisement, awesome storyline, some kind of gimmick crazy final boss (Well Dural could be awesome if they gave her a personality and redid the story alot). Possibly some ending/intro clips (they need to be better then sf4s though, those were crap).

and I personally think the item customization is fine... you rarely if ever see anyone that looks that much like you, and with all the items and new costumes in VF5R you'll probably find a very unique look for urself.

PS- MAKE ITEM BATTLES COME UP ONLINE!!! Itll give people way more incentive to play and collect them all !

 

but most of tekken cast is the same character anyway so you by learning one character are acually learning two or three and in some cases. because learning only one character is for noobs.

p. s. I'm laying the sarcasme pretty thick

 

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Hello, as a person who just registered to sign the console document thread (although I might have had an account years ago and forgot) I apologise for necroing this thread.

But I've been thinking about this issue for a little while and i wanted to post some thoughts. Perhaps this has all been said before, but anyways:


I've read several people wanting VF to match features with other FGs, like better story mode, more Tekken style flash, etc.

But perhaps VF should move in a different direction? I remember being excited about VF3, with its variable landscapes, and cloth simulation physics, etc. Also I get the impression that the sensation of "impact" has generally gone downhill since VF3.

Perhaps VF (or its successor series... i agree with a reboot) could address the issue of "flash" with a more realism based approach, rather than Tekken-style explosions and so forth?

Although I dont play them, EA's Fight Night games seem to be making good progress with skin and flesh impact physics, sweat bursts, etc.

Parametric animations (a punch to the head is aimed at the head, a kick to the body targets the midsection, etc), some physics on the "getting hit" animations (subtle use of ragdoll, etc.)

Also, they should be careful in their use of motion capture... in VF4, a lot of the throws and animations look like actors trying not to hurt each other, due to the mocap. Sometimes you need animators and artists to make things "hyperrealistic" - especially in a game with kickflips and other kungfu.


Regarding characters, perhaps rather than stronger characters, rivalries and backstories (in a martial arts tournament setting, there really isnt much room for good story or characters... which is why Blazblue isnt set in a tournament) they should just take the customisation to the next level, and provide a variety of body types, voices, win poses, for each "character", and allow us to heavily personalise every aspect of our character's aesthetics? (as a special gripe, just do everyones voice in japanese, please. Let the US/EU release localise properly with their own voice actors).


As for the story, rather than yet another tired "bad guy secretly uses tournament to do bad things" story, how about basing the story on the players? We got a taste of this when Jeffery "won" VF1's story tournament since a real life Jeff player won Sega's tournament (i might be remembering it wrong.) But basically, base the story on the real life happenings of top, famous players. Possibly dramatise it a bit like a reality TV show, and show the story via internet and ingame via updates or "VF TV" or something like that.


All this is probably a bit too revolutionary for Sega - it seems like quite a conservative company these days. But its a shame that VF's movesets, mechanics, and gameplay are somewhat wasted on the platform and company its currently on. (similarly, KOF's wonderful character designs are wasted on KOF12 and the current SNKP. But thats a rant for another forum )

I suppose in an ideal world some dedicated group of fans would just make an open-source version of VF4FT on PC with GGPO netcode and full customisation of all gfx/sound assets, and make it a Half Life 2 mod or something, and it becomes the FG equivalent of Counterstrike or DoTA. Ah well.

 

You touched on voice acting.

I don't think e veryone should speak Japanese, especially if you're aiming for "Hyper-realism". It makes no sense.

It would make sense to have characters speaking their own languages with their own accents unless they were raised somewhere else in the canon.

Chinese characters should speak chinese.

Australian characters should have an aussie accent.

Jean and Lion should speak French.

Some of the voice actors we have in VF are pretty shit at the best of times, I wouldn't mind a recasting.

Plus, Lion would be much less gay if he spoke French and didn't have a girly high pitched voice.

 

I guess my only problem with trying to flesh out some type of story or plot is that it's really just for casual players. I think VFs legacy is that it's the most realistic fighting game there is. The more realism they add, the better it's going to look. VF should be what it is and be proud about it.

Forget about making it like Tekken, I actually find Tekken 6 ugly when I see the same little hokey flashes and sparks that have been in the game forever. They look horrible, outdated and chintzy. I got sick of Tekken 6 pretty fast, it can't hold a candle to VF IMO. It's overly string based and spammy.

If player need to have a story, for some reason, to but the game then throw it in there. The heart of VF and all fighting games is human competition. How long is a silly little plot line (yes, we all know it'll be lame) going to keep anyone interested? I don't think that's going to help.

The only problem that VF has is that it's made by SEGA. They treat every other VF community outside of Japan as a total afterthought. They have stiffed the fans outside of Japan many, many times and there is resentment there. They need to bring the new major versions outside of their little island and realize there's actually a world outside of Japan.

Plus, the worst thing is that they don't market it well. They don't really market it at all. Make the game and pony up some money for advertising and the game will sell, no doubt in my mind.

 

@Seidon: Well, in that case they need to get decent writers in each language to come up with the dialogue lines. Even good voice actors will struggle if the lines they are given are terrible.


The main problem (in english at least) is that people simply dont SAY those sorts of things in English. Its tough to localise anime and japanese games because they seem to be much more used to saying stuff in combat. In English we really dont hear much outside of expletives or "COME ON!!".


But hey, who said people need to come from somewhere? They could reboot the game into a fictional world, and have the people come from fictional countries, and thus they can all speak Japanese (and be localised into other languages properly).


Realism is great when used effectively to suspend disbelief, provide familiarity, etc. But terrible voice acting saying terrible lines that are terribly out of place doesnt do any of that. Theres no benefit to being realistic there. "Hyperrealism" is all about being BEYOND realistic - ie, knowing when to effectively break realism to get better results.


@Gernbergs
I dunno. Tennis is a game that requires an incredible amount of skill at the top level. Yet it can draw fans that only casually play, or dont play at all.
It seems strange that a competitive game needs story mode or similar to attract casual fans. Surely there is some way to attract casual fans with the competitive side of things?
I think one big problem preventing many games from truly becoming an esport is simply that its quite difficult to spectate - even if youtube makes match videos easy to find, theres very little context, its hard to know who the players are or why we should care. Events like SBO provide some interest, but it would be great if there was a broader network of media that can summarise, dramatise, and promote the player/human aspects of the game, to give it some context and meaning.
Also it helps if the game is interesting to spectate for people of all skill/knowledge levels. Good animation and effects certainly helps that. Also if more mechanics are somehow easily visible and recognisable.

 

I'd agree with you to a degree but yknow what? When I was a youth into fighting games I'm not going to lie. I liked Tekken not only because of the gameplay.

I knew all the stories and loved unlocking all the FMV's at the end no matter how lame; same thing with Soul Calibur. To say adding story and so forth isn't good marketing then you're just deluding yourself with hardcore fanaticism.

Remember, there's nothing realistic about VF. If you want realistic lets take out floats altogether and put in staggers for combos....wait, won't that make it like a dial a combo? No! Certain combos won't work if the opponents health bar/fatigue bar is a certain size. Oh and varying combos in case Goh breaks your friggin arm and you can't use it. Oh and why does Goh get off of Jacky in the first place?

 

I have been saying this for long time myself as well. You are absolutely right there IS NOTHING REALISTIC ABOUT VF! Anyone who claims VF is better because the gameplay is realistic is simply deluding himself. Yeah sure it was more realistic compared to Street Fighter 2 when VF1 first came out. But Mortal Kombat probably had more realistic gameplay than SF2. But even then there was nothing realistic about the moon-level gravity and a 200 pound wrestler suddenly turning into a helium baloon in midair just because the 100 pound Chinese girl put out her creamy white blocky hand to stop the said wrestler jumping at her. (And the VF should really take credit/blame for setting precedence for all the similar air juggle BS that followed in all 3D fighters.)

I guess the point is: VF is not realistic and never has been and there is no "integrity" to lose by making it more flash.

 

Sounds like Time Killers to me...

 

I think some people have been misunderstanding - I know full well that VF is not realistic. By "Hyperrealism" I mean BEYOND realism, ie. exaggerated realism, hong kong kungfu movies, etc.

I'm saying that, instead of adding flash in the same way as Tekken, with explosions and particles, perhaps VF should add flash in a different way - with skin/flesh impacts, animations that look like they're truly hitting their target body parts, sprays of sweat and steam on big hits to the head, some accurate ragdoll when getting hit, etc.


What I'm imagining is something where, if you're looking at the slomotion replay at the end of a match, you can see a kickflip impacting the jaw of the opponent, snapping his head back in a spray of sweat/water, as his cheeks distort and his body flips backwards to tumble to the ground etc.

During a match things will move too quickly to consciously note these details, but you will notice them subconsciously as subtly looking "awesome".


In other words, instead of copying Tekken, VF could discover its own brand of flash. (and copy Fight Night instead? )

But notice I carefully avoid mention of blood or injuries - its not realism, its hyperrealism

Heres a Fight Night video to illustrate my meaning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNvgrCN-YmM

Disclaimer: I dont play fight night and have no idea if its good or whatever. I just like some of their advances in gfx tech, and it reminds me of the time before VF3 when we were amazed by its procedural cloth simulations.

 

Doesn't the blue flash (counter hit) mean something in VF unlike Tekken, but I don't see anything wrong with exaggerating it

 

I kinda don't know what the topic is here but I wanna chime anyways.

Vf is very textbook and plain when it comes to playing at a more competitive level. If you understand frames and can move and press buttons fairly decently you're good to go. The buffer window is extremely leniant, compared to say tekken where you must insert inputs much more precisely. In sf, 1 frame links (or links in general) are definitely nothing casual. Even matchups alone can make the game difficult. In comparison though, in vf there's a lot more freedom and you have sooo many options for the same situations. I just want to see a ton more of the same stuff disguised in different ways to be honest.

 

I never thought I would see the day that someone makes a true comment than Tekken requires more precise input than VF.

 

Whats a hard input in Tekken? I suck at most VF inputs but I can do just about everything in Tekken. Not trying to argue, but I never had problems with most of Tekkens stuff. Frankly I think input difficulty shouldn't be difficult. Yes, I'm one of those guys that prefer mind game over how many hours I spend in the dojo.