Who's da best at what?

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ice-9 said:

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This is the impression that good Kages will leave on their opponents...but the reality is that Kage's elbow game is inherently defensive when blocked. Why would you run away?? Simply use a quick move that cannot be sabakied to interrupt Kage's + for MC damage. Once the Kage player has learned not to + blindly, it's a guessing game that's frankly in the opponent's favor since Kage would have to rely on low damaging moves like JM or JM . And if the opponent has a quick knee like Jacky, Sarah, Lion, et. al., Kage is !@#$%ed.

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Actually, there are alot of nifty tricks to use the elbow for, Yono came up with some pretty nifty ones too.

-First, contact your opponent with an elbow, but do not hold down so you will stay in regular stance, from there, most opponents are thinking block (or quick striking attack, very quick). So intead of following up with moves from HJM stance, you can throw (or if you think your opponent is going for a striking attack, dodge).

-If you think that your opponent may attemp a mid kick, the fastest and most subtle ways into HJM are +, and . One of the Kakuto S.II matches has an extremely fucking amazing example of this, especially a mid kick reversal on Lau Chan /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

-If you do end up going into the stance though, there are several way to go from there:

-+ is the most used, while in some cases it is effective, don't over use it.

-+ is actually alot more used now, but still not expected, use it carefully.

-+, if your opponent is defensive, tries to evade or backdash, wait a little and then throw, this is one of the best ways to end a mind game situation.

 

First, your strats are Kage basics 101.

Second, decent players can see if Kage goes into stance or not before Kage is free to move.

And yeah, I'm still bitter about losing my card data...

 

why do all of creeDs messages have that thing from hitler with swearing in it at da bottom. /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

it's a signature. Everyone has one.

 

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ice-9 said:

Second, decent players can see if Kage goes into stance or not before Kage is free to move.

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So that means that Mukki Akira, Tsushkimo and Chibita are not decent players, because all of them have taken a throw after the elbow. And all of them have taken a + hit, and + hit after an elbow.

Just dig around in the Daioh vids if you need some proof, or watch Yono Kage's match against Tsuchkimo in the Kakuto S.II

 

Dude, I don't know what you're trying to say, but MC elbow (or really anything that leaves you with decent advantage) is a basic 101 nitaku opportunity that every decent player already knows about. The fact that it works against elite players is no surprise.

But what does it have to do with Kage specifically, not to mention JM in particular? Your post is not helpful, nor does it contain any new information.

 

Jesus man, he just asked for help WTF!

If HE doesn't want the post fine, I am not posting for you, I know that you know well enough about Kage.

I just gave examples of what to do after the elbow, which is the most common way of entering the JM stance.

He can use those as flowcharts, and if they work against the best players, they should work even better against the rest.

I have no fuckin clue what to post on this thread now..................................

 

Sorry, I know you were trying to be helpful. I think I was reacting more to a (mis)perceived lack of respect....

 

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+ is mid, half-circular, quick, and almost impossible to punish on block.


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Yeah -- almost. Doesn't it cut it though. There's some good things to use here. You're dead if it's evaded.

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has incredible range


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Not bad... I wouldn't say incredible though. Decieving is a better word.

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+ interrups everything, including rising attacks and is again impossible to punish on block


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Vanessa , and I think either of Lion's flying crescents, although I've not played Shun against a formidable Lion in a while.

Back on the dodge attack. While I agree it's kick-ass, I don't think it's the best in the game. If it was, you'd see scrubs abusing it like Kage's.

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When he is DRUNK (i.e 18+ drinks)


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Okay - that's great against scrubs, but what about high-level stuff? Playing against someone that's good, you're lucky to get 10, and they're usually sucked off. You saw me at Nishispo - I never broke 6 DPs.

Throwing game is doubled after 20+ drinks? Please do explain. You get the BT throw after 5 (almost useless), the new throw after 3 (but lose 3DPs) not useless, but not as useable as the others. + does do about an extra 15-20 points of damage. 10 Drinks and you can do the 270 - no new direction though, which is what "makes" the throwing game if you know what I mean.

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And when he is 25+


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This happens? /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

What ice might have been referring to is the fact that the grab'n'fling is escaped with b,f+P+G only, which essentially makes it a completely new throw direction to worry about... unless the game is happy with this input?

+ +

But I bet that doesn't work.

 

Thanks GP, I had a lengthy reply written to this, but VFDC shitted out on me and I lost all of it....Shun is a GOOD character, but he is not top tier.

 

I need to check this. From what I've heard (from asking) that throw is escaped with + only. Again though - I don't get 10 DPs that often.

 

in ver C, it was b,f P+G to escape.

But in evo, it changed to + to escape.

 

Even back in Ver C., when I asked people (SHU specifically) he said back only, and the PS2 version and arcade were supposedly carbon copies.

 

one of those strange moments haha...I don't blame u for still asking it till date.

Like Aoi's multi dan throw.
Some insist that they mash n repeatedly to escape.

Others insist that u can only input one direction~

 

One thing that bugged me somewhat, about the titles given out above:

Best Throw/Strike guessing game: Akira/Lau? I've always thought that the strongest character in this department was Jeffry. In fact, that's what was preached on this very site by many people, and for a long time. I'm just wondering why nobody else seemed to catch that, or if they did, why they weren't bothered by it...

/versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

You could argue a lot of people have the best throw strike guessing game though. I personally think Aoi has a really good one with so many different throws ,quick strikes and guard cancels. Nevermind two hit-throws. But she's already the best reversing character so i guess she can't be too good.

 

I believe the shun 270 must still be escaped with two directions. I also believe "from experiences at NY" that you CAN successfully escape the throw if you enter and throw escapes. Which is why I think SHU answered the way he did... This requires further testing, so someone should test it out and see what's the deal..
/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

I have it on verily good source that it is only to escape it. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

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SummAh said:

I have it on verily good source that it is only to escape it. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Yeah, in a couple guides, Japanese and American, they have the throw escape command listed as that, so I am guessing that either the guides are right, or they are all wrong (doubtful...).

But can anyone confirm this with an online source please.