Who's da best at what?

OK summah, in perfect guide it says escaped with ++. Ent on vfhome also tested it to work with ++. So I guess that's changed from ver C. Weird.. many of us had trouble getting out of that throw at NY... maybe we just choked against the crazy Shun lol
/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

or we forgot all abt it brah ^0^

 

from earlier in the thread:

according to the Evo Complete Guide (ver. B), both Akira and Lion's dodge attacks are dodge-able.

it says Akira's you have to dodge to his back, and Lion's can be dodged either way.

 

Lion's dodge attack is slow (and he has to spin in it), so it acts like his other sidestep attack moves (all which are evadable).

Akira's on the other hand, is similar to all of his other moves that can only be dodged on one side.

 

u like the state the obvious and make urself appear to be very 'informative'.

 

Best Range : Jeff...... ?

I love the big guy, but best range? What's he got. , , and his get punished before it comes out ........

How about Lion? , , , ?


I'd like to add a bit in true empnova form (you've probably thought of it already, and it needn't be said) , and if it's deleted.... good. Someone has got to cut this guy off. I don't think I've seen one useful bit of info in his posts. They also start a whirlwind of crap, there's no need to argue, agree or disagree with empnova unless his information is just wrong. To quote him, "I have no fucking clue what to post on this thread now..." Dude it's not your obligation to post. No clue, no post. Very simple.

 

He's got a lot. Other people have good range as well, but Jeff's slowness is made up for his range.

Lion's crescents do reach far, but the sweep - no setup, and no strings. Just a bit of damage.

 

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+ is mid, half-circular, quick, and almost impossible to punish on block.

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Yeah -- almost. Doesn't it cut it though. There's some good things to use here. You're dead if it's evaded.

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Dude, don't be so greedy!! Even Akira is semi-screwed if the SDE is evaded. Shun's + is at least half-circular...and he's got that not-really-useful-but-better-than-nothing canned afterwards.

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has incredible range

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Not bad... I wouldn't say incredible though. Decieving is a better word.

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Sidekick range? Shun's at least. I've lost a lot of rounds to Shuns who'd dash in and at the right range.

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Back on the dodge attack. While I agree it's kick-ass, I don't think it's the best in the game. If it was, you'd see scrubs abusing it like Kage's.

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Well, the fact that good players barely use Kage's dodge attack ought to say something. I don't know what the stats are but I swear his dodge attack got slower...and it definitely recovers slower than Version C.

You may not see Shun abusing the dodge attack because he doesn't really need to...++ is safer, and if Shun wants to go full circular he could opt for . Of course, his dodge attack IS fast, full circular, middle, always knocks down, and very damaging on MC.

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Okay - that's great against scrubs, but what about high-level stuff? Playing against someone that's good, you're lucky to get 10, and they're usually sucked off. You saw me at Nishispo - I never broke 6 DPs.

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True, but it DOES happen. I saw quite a few Shuns with 10+ DPs at that session, and a small number had the magic 18+. Didn't one Shun player get 20+ DPs at the Kakutou Shinseki "elite eight" matches? I think he was down 0-2 rounds...but easily came back to win 3-2 with those DPs.

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Throwing game is doubled after 20+ drinks? Please do explain. You get the BT throw after 5 (almost useless), the new throw after 3 (but lose 3DPs) not useless, but not as useable as the others. + does do about an extra 15-20 points of damage. 10 Drinks and you can do the 270 - no new direction though, which is what "makes" the throwing game if you know what I mean.

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Sure--I didn't mean number of throws, but effectiveness of throws (which I think is what I wrote). 270b becomes a real threat: highly damaging, gets extra DPs, and safe if escaped. Losing DPs with + is not a big deal when you have that many DPs to use with. and +, as you pointed out, can take 20% more damage.

When I fight a sober Shun, it's basically + (for drinks) and + (somewhat damaging) that I mainly have to worry about. + is the weird throw to escape sometimes.

When he's drunk, it's + (for drinks), + (highly damaging), 270b (for drinks AND for high damage). + becomes the weird throw to worry about, and it's pretty good.

Basically, Shun's throw game goes from 2 stars to 4 stars. In fact, I would say Shun's throwing game when drunk is on par with Jeffry's...probably better.

 

Getting late here, BUT...

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not-really-useful-but-better-than-nothing canned P afterwards.


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This is pretty lame. It's got to be someone that's so agreesive that he can't wait 3 frames to see this coming. If they do wait, then they can wait the rest, dodge it, and rape you. It's pretty bad.

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Sidekick range? Shun's at least. I've lost a lot of rounds to Shuns who'd dash in and dfP at the right range.


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I've probably lost more to Kage's that sit there and do + - this is an awesome move. Sidekick range it has, but I'd put a side kick just a hair above it in usefulness -- you can side kick and stay far enough away to keep you safe on a block.

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Well, the fact that good players barely use Kage's dodge attack ought to say something.


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My good doesn't mean top 100 -- you were in my neighborhood. Not sure if you played against any other Kage's though.

Re Shun's drinking:
I didn't watch to many Shun matches there that night. it does happen, but you really can't count on it. If you do (count on drinks in general) it really hurts your game... bad. I try not to, but it's hard. I guess the reason I feel his throwing game goes from 1-star (worst in the game) to 2-star (sharing the worst in the game w/ Lei Fei) is the directions. The damage means shit if you get escaped every throw. I agree w/ you 100% on + -- I use it as my main throw for the reason you stated... it's under used, and not escaped that often. The main guy I play against that just flat out doesn't let me drink can escape anyone's + 19 times out of 20, and is damn good w/ the rest. But I know he escapes neutral and by default against Shun... it's just a reaction, so I use until he catches on.


++ is safe, but guarantees nothing. Great for setting up, but again - ducking takes you far here. Also, once you get used to this move, it's easy to play - I've got friends that are good at making you stop that shit.

Finally, the elusive -- there is something dodgy w/ this full-crescent attack. You know I don't read charts and whatnot, but I swear this has been dodged on me. If I wait, and do the delayed thing, it works every time... maybe I'm too far away or something. Then again... my matches can get pretty steamed, so maybe I'm hallucinating.

LATE... must sleep.

 

late addition... jeff specifically has f,f+P and his sidekick, probably the longest sidekick in the game. Cutesy jeff players may also want to use b,df+P, though I think ff+P is better.

You can lose a surprising amount of life to jeff players who crouch dash or backdash a foot, then use df+K to crush you even if you backdashed after your failed attack..

 

best throw or strike guessing games probably stems from characters who can inflict painful strikes with only a little bit of frame advantage... for example with aoi, if I am at a +2 situation, I have only one pretty good option for beating a low punch... f+P (f+P,P). If I´m jeff I have the risky b+K, P... nothing else is quick enough to beat a low punch. If I´m akira though, I have the painful f,f,f+P MC threat to inflict on low punches. I´m half safe if it´s blocked. I can also use a b,f+P to stuff a jab and I´m at an advantage if it´s blocked. Basically akira is pretty nasty at +2. Lau is just lau, he can beat any standing attack with his b,f+P (just like akira) and since lau´s b,f+P is 13 frames, that means he can use it when only +1 (i.e. after a blocked jab). Otherwise lau can elbow like anyone else.

Jeffry needs +5 to get really painful strike guessing games (a knee interrupt). Aoi´s strikes even at +5 aren´t horrifyingly painful.

 

Did you actually say cutesy Jeff players?

 

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Finally, the elusive -- there is something dodgy w/ this full-crescent attack. You know I don't read charts and whatnot, but I swear this has been dodged on me.

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Your right + is half circular. It's not too bad when someone does dodge it as you don't have such a large disadvantage so it's fairly safe.

 

Good -- I'm not going crazy. Another Shun player (my mentor to an extent) told me it was full-circular, so I never questioned it, but wondered since I'd seen it dodged. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Come to think of it Shun's full-circulars are REALLY slow. BT isn't too slow, but is high.

 

Are you sure?? The similar looking move from stance IS half circular, but as far as I am aware from normal stance is full circular.

I'd be very surprised if this is not true.

 

I hate you Ice /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I tested it and I can't evade it. I could have sworn it was half-circular, maybe I was getting confused with the DS + /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif. I didn't even think that a full-circular would be that fast even if it was high, so I assumed it to be true. Sorry Gaijin got it wrong.

 

Wait... DS... never dawned on me that these could be totally different moves.

 

Toldya Shun rocks. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

If Singapore didn't have such a good Shun player (Zhi Feng) and a good copy cat (Danny) I would have kept playing Shun myself. Hmmm...maybe I just should.

 

I think I figured this out finally. I had always *thought* I had seen this, but confirmed it yesterday.

Was playing against CPU Goh, just goofing around. I TR'ed, but was WAY far away from him. He did his little dodge kick thing that will trip you up if you dodge into it. (Sorry - don't know the command). There was NO WAY he was going to hit me w/ it, but even so, I dodged into the same direction, and did the dodge animation, sound, the whole kit-n-kaboodle. If I was closer, he would've whacked me.

I've also noticed this w/ Akira's charged + attack. Perhaps Spotlite can give a testimony. Basically, there are times when, if he's charging from a distance, and I'm a safe enough distance away, I've dodged this to either side (after execution starts).

So, in regards to Shun's , what I'm thinking is, the times I 'hallucinated' there's a chance the guy was just far away, and I wouldn't have hit it anyway, so it went through the dodge-animation.

Not saying that it'll happen every time, and there's a chance that it's just a bug, as you don't see it that often. Sound viable?