Why behind?-VF-bashing reality of malicious sites

I hope they fix akira before the console port...

 

LOL I can imagine the noobs complaining about playing any game online: why are these people SOOOO STRONG? I just want to have fun!

 

Just goes to show Japan can be as free and salty as America.

 

Is there really evidence that SEGA plans to upgrade it to version B?

And I've been out of the loop, but even with the system changes I still see the same top players doing well, the flow of the matches looks the same visually. What is it that's really upsetting them? Throw break change? Akira being that beastly?

 

The "evidence" from what I can tell, is SEGA saying that the port we get will be whatever the current version the arcade version is.

 

This can quickly get out of hand so I'll leave a few points since some people don't know how to reach me outside of here.

Keep in mind that this is the view from an experienced VF player living in Japan. I may not like the VF5 series but I've won official tourneys in each iteration (vanilla, R and FS). In R, I was 11 ranks above 10 dan before quitting when Ver C came out.


- There have been 18 revisions of the VF5 series. 18! (for the doubters, I have the revision release schedule) For someone like me who has been playing it since location test 1, that means for every slight gameplay change revision, I've had to go readjust my combos and flow just because AM2 felt like changing the frames or gravity in certain situations. Once or twice? Fine, I can adjust to that. When we get to double digits, I'm sick of it already especially when I've developed/implemented character/stance/hit specific combos. 18 revisions shows that AM2 has no idea what they're doing with the gameplay which comes to the next point

- For series competitive vets, it's obvious that VF5 is a frame tweak sequel. They've basically taken the fundamental frames in VF4 and changed the #s while fucking with how the throw system works in an attempt to make the game easier for n00bs. VF4 scrubs used to almost get taken by P > throw since it was almost guaranteed on MC and that there was little time to do something on reaction. With the implementation of the split in vanilla VF5, scrubs can jam on the P/K buttons and get away for free in a throw attempt. Moves that can crush the split are limited thus narrowing the freedom a player has in dealing with this situation. Obviously, this is retarded and removed from the game now.



The problem is choice or lack of it...

Forced nitaku (ie PRS, paper rock scissors) and option select have been the bread and butter for this series. Again, VF4 n00bs got eaten alive by any player who knew how to run a tight nitaku game. AM2 removed these forced choices by allowing everyone to fuzzy out of most common situations thus nullifying nitaku (ie forced choices/defensive reactions), which is to me, one of the most satisfying points about VF. Forcing your opponent to make a choice, reading that choice and crushing it is awesome.

Eliminating risk in making a choice (aka option select) is also a key component of VF. DOA (not to bash it) has very clear cut choices when it comes to its PRS guessing (throw vs attack vs block/hold). There are clear 33.3% guesses there. VF took it further by allowing more defensive choices in allowing you to evade and break throws, multiple at that. Thus the PRS choice %s have many more variations. For example, do I evade and break 3 throws while guarding thus leaving me open to a delayed attack/throw or circular move in my direction? Things like VF3 Korean step and the various steps in VF4 were invented to reduce risk in moving around. AM2 has eliminated the viability of such steps. Sure, you can move around but it's not safe (safety levels depend upon which VF5 you're talking about).

There is a tech in VF5 that allows you to fuzzy, block semi-circulars/full circulars, block delayed attacks and let's you break throws. Basically, only a well guessed delayed throw or sweep will beat it. (If you've faced ChiefGutti recently, then you'll have encountered it) There is a similar tech in VF5R up to Ver B that actually was stronger and easier to perform. It was great seeing that you could evade in disadvantage but still block a full circular.


The VF5 series has actually been limiting the freedom of how players can respond in situations by reducing choices and dumbing down the game in order to make the game more appealing to new players. This idea and how it's been implemented in the game is what killed VF5 in Japan.

FS takes it a step further by the removal of staggers from elbow and mid kick. No longer do you need skill to shake and defend. Now, they just don't happen. When you do get in a staggered situation, most of those situations have guaranteed followups anyway so why do they even show the stick shaking icon on screen is beyond me.

Throws only have 3 directions now (4, 5, 6) and you can only break one of them in the current version. A stark constrast to even VF3! For a game that has a built rep on defensive techs, there sure aren't many things you can do anymore. Movement has been nerfed further by adding the backdash staggers. (Again, no point in shaking, you'll still get launched) The original release had the Super OM bug which was removed in Ver A so again, AM2 wants to limit your choices. I'm not going into the side guard scenario but I'll assure you, it's stupid and the cause of why many many players hate the game.

Outside of gameplay, casual players who just want to collect items have been pooped on. Since the original FS release, there was only 1 month where new costume items were released. When those items released, they were extremely expensive to get (like 4 times the other items). AM2 was cheekily trying to extend the life of the game by making players play overtime to get orbs that people just got sick of it. Until Ver A. nearly 10 months later, there were no other costume items. That should tell you just how popular the game was. Sega couldn't even bother investing in a revision and new items as VF's popularity has gone through the floor. Another telling sign is the lack of players who sell cards and items. Ever since FS, that racket has all but disappeared. Why? No wants to pay for it anymore and there aren't any new items. Most arcades only keep it around as they don't need to pay anything but electricity for it and they can't sell it since it is a leased game. I have seen arcades get rid of the VF.TV monitor and terminal though. SBO doesn't have it on their list this year either. Has there ever been an SBO without VF? Not until now....Also, have a think about why Fuudo quit playing VF seriously around vanilla...


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

 

makes sense, i didn't realise japan even had complaints or that the scene was dying til now. kinda sux as i'm hype for a new vf already. I'll still give it a go as I DID sign that petition for it

 

Could'nt have explained it any better. I knew they felt that way because of what they did to the overall game. The bare fact that crouch staggers is what i hope gets added back in Ver. B. Sega was trying to milk it for how much they can get and the people got tired of it.. This is how i feel about Tekken 6 compared to 5.... Still gonna play the hell out of it though once i get my hands on it.

 

I was saying that from the beginning that it would suck with no diagonal input throws standing throws,and MTE. Akira's reverse bodycheck just isnt right if it's not 4,3P+G.Ive been doing that move for over 15 years its instictive, and a trademarkof Vf. Changing that is like Capcom changing Ryu's fireball to 66+P. That's just Gay. The whole "low throws are 1,2,or 3 P+G " just cuts down the throw list. Not a fan.

That cuts down the learning curve. It sucks because for a lot of people like me the steep learning curve is actually a selling point!

I'm glad to see so many Japanese players agree with me, with the current atmosphere like that in Japan,you can bet VF6 will be more technical like VF5, unless sega wants to lose more business. VF5 Vanilla will be revered like 3rd Strike, lol.

 

Thank you for a concise and well-thought post. I was expecting a rant.

I have to admit I have been worried about how the changes would affect VF for a long while, but I kind of forgot VF for couple years and didn't really pay attention to version changes that I wouldn't get to play. I wasn't for example aware of changes to stagger.

And the game does sound more boring on preset, but I can't really say much more until I get to play the game myself. You can ask people how negative I was about changes between VF4->VF5 before its release, but I have since come to like VF5 due there being many nuances in its defense system and stuff that wasn't possible before. These kind of things are impossible to comment until one gets hands-on playing experience.

Your point that DOA has very clear cut rock-paper-scissors guessing games and that it still isn't that popular is very true. I have played DOA (I make it a point of playing the games I comment on) and consider the game to be bit boring because theres little else than the guessing games. Up to VF5 the strengths of VF's game system wasn't rock-paper-scissors, but its refinement, the extra things that changed the guessing game if you knew how to do them.

 

Actually Shou was referring to VF4 and that the problems started with VF5 vanilla. It's popularity in Japan did seem to fall at that time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm0ddPwhxhc
Cheif Gutti was also telling me at SVB about some of the problems with FS like the side guard. I wonder how this bodes for VF6. Will the VF series get dropped if it loses so much of it's main audience?

Also this overpowered defensive tech in VF5, well what about ARE in VF4?

I'm really enjoying reading this discussion though and getting insight on what Sega is doing with the game and how people are taking to it in Japan. I'd like to hear more.

 

I think there's a good argument to say too many option selects are very bad for a game as it takes risk away from choices.

That's actually one of the things I like about DOA, that you have to back your choices and that's part of the ongoing mindgame (not boring!).

Not to say VF isn't much more like this too than say, Street Fighter, which has a frankly ridiculous disparity in power between characters who have viable option selects and also FADC cancels on certain key moves, allowing them to be made safe.

Allowing players to turn risky moves into safe ones doesn't sit well with me and I'd take an overall balanced system like that in VF any day.

As far as I can see from my limited time with FS the ability to engage in nitaku mindgames, the use of movement, spacing, and correctly employing your options is expanded simply by the increased number of viable moves.

 

Then again too few (if we consider things like multiple throw escape as an option select) makes the game boring for anyone who delves deeply in it. This is my current fear for FS.

 

I think another way of seeing the situation is:

1. VF5R is what 5 should have been from the beginning
2. there is only so much VF can change before its not VF anymore
3. Sega could decide to wait to make VF6 until they have something new to add to the game

 

Have I missed something or what did they do to remove that from FS? You can no longer cancel failed evade with dash?

 

Tech=technique? What is this tech, is it some kind of evade cancel?

 

From my viewpoint it would lose to a lot of things.. But thanks for explaining.