Why behind?-VF-bashing reality of malicious sites

Wow. Thanks for taking the time to post all this stuff for us Shou. Some of the stuff I knew or had an inkling of, but it's a really good read.

I think VF5 was a bit of a stagnation for the franchise. VF3 may not have been too popular, but it was a huge leap from VF2 in gameplay. VF4 was then another huge leap from VF3. With VF2, 3 and 4 it really felt like they went through the previous game, picked it apart and tried to push it forward to somewhere completely new.

With VF5, when it released, most of us just saw VF4 with a few new combos and annoying tweaks. Now with FS, we still don't seem to be seeing something at a higher level than VF4 in terms of gameplay. I'd hope that Sega learn from this and try to really innovate and push the boundaries with VF6 like they've done in the past. Sega used to be the great innovator in both software and hardware. I'd like to see that Sega back.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would also be uncharacteristic of the series if it were to incorporate the kind of flash that we see in other games. Other games have naked girls, panty-shots and flashing-lights, and gawdy-moves that do 66% damage at once. They are attention whores compared to VF. There is no way for VF to attract large number of noobs over the other games. </div></div>

Sarah and Eileen have gotten pretty skanky lately. And VF1 body check from Akira did 100% damage on counter hit. There's still room for flash. The main issue is the producers at Sega have no idea what cool is. They seem to think the Western world is still in love with 80's campiness.

*Cue Carlito's theme song*

 

I love 80's campiness. It beats the hell out of every character being a half demon cliche like in every fighting game now.

 

- I think VF from a gameplay perspective has been played out. Unless the overall game design takes a major risk in changing say how the throw system or combos work from a fundamental view, there isn't much more that Sega can do except play with frames.

This is not just an opinion, AM2 itself admitted as much in interviews when VF5 came out. VF4 is in essence what a VF should be like.

Now, lets think of this outside of the narrow limits of VF:

Imagine if Mozart had stopped writing music after his first symphony because 'he was played out' and only a new type of music could bring back the golden age,

Or Brasil stopped playing footbal because their best years are behind them and only new rules could bring them back, lets say no goalkeepers anymore, so its all about attack

I mean, FPS games. are they played out? Yes. but people keep buying them

 

Meh not all games can be a hit competitively, how long after SF 3rd Strike did it take to do another SF? 3rd Strike wasn't even that well loved in the states from what I remember. Most considered
the best Tekken to be Tekken Tag released in 1999. Marvel vs Capcom 2 enjoyed its splendor for 10 years. Final Tuned was released in 2004? I expect the next mind blowing VF at this rate to be in 2014.

Granted all the games before and after these "hits" for other games sold better than every VF if I recall besides maybe VF2?

 

I thought of Bill Watterson the other day--the guy who wrote Calvin and Hobbes. He wrote the said comic strip for ten years before he announced his retirement. During that time he was pretty much the king of the comic strips. Millions of people adored his works. Calvin and Hobbes kept winning awards after awards. Many practically begged him to keep milking Calvin and Hobbes. But he was adamant that he had no intention to continue. He never authorized merchandising and retired into obscurity.

He was around 38 or something when he retired and of course by that time he achieved what most people of any profession never achieve during their lifetime.

Just something to ponder.

 

I think he meant 'played out' in the sense that there isnt much else Sega can do with the formula, unless it becomes another type of game (DOA type)

 

I liked the VF4 series more than any other fighting game out there but the game was too hard and inaccessible for it's own good. I've never played a fighter that was so difficult and gave so little to the new player as VF4. I know VF3 is regarded as even harder but at least a beginner can move around easily in that game and they don't have to think about MTE and exact recovery.

When I played VF4Evo competitively I literally had to play it every day or else I'd quickly lose my reactions and input skills (1 of our top Tekken players actually said that was the reason he wouldn't get into VF4). While I really enjoyed that and got a lot of satisfaction from it I just can't see a VF like that doing well over here now. The culture around gaming must be very different in Japan where there are more like minded gamers. Something had to change though whether what they did with FS was the right way or not I don't know.

If VF5FS does well and creates more of a demand for VF I hope Sega would consider releasing DLC versions of the older VF games particularly VF4FT and VF3TB. Most (if not all) of the older VF games never got an arcade perfect port and VF4FT none at all.

As for VF4's speed vs VF5's, certain things are faster in VF4. Dashes, both successful and failed evades and the recovery is shorter (faster movement cancelling too I remember) and regular throws are faster. Everything else is near enough the same? I thought VF5FS was the fastest of the VF5 series and had improved stepping but with added risk? It certainly looks a lot faster than VF5.

 

FS takes it back to the essence while freshning the game up to attract new people. I hope its a hit over here and more people get into it..Once Evo tourny come a knocking the Japanese players will show up again in droves.Funny how the game was a flop when Korea and Taiwan tore japan a new one in 3 when they re-broke the system. Its never fun when you get destroyed on your at your shit. VF4 became simpler than 3 in many ways but i won't go into that now. I tought VF4 was a becoming more like Tekken in its own little way. Look at all the little tactics that work in 4 that did'nt work in in 3. Example (2) into throw or just grabbing a hurt opponent.
I for one never even knew about this super defensive technique for 5. I quite sure there are many ways to avoid getting put in a situation where you need to apply this Tech. If FS shorts the options on offense slightly to the point where i won't need to apply this move it still does'nt mean its a even playing field for noobs.


Not to Mentnion did'nt Shou Signature for his Sarah in FS say "VFDC is Gay!"?

 

Well, this has been a very enlightening thread.

Often times these days, the very mention of simplifying anything for mass appeal makes anyone gnash teeth and for very good, justified reasons. We've seen it happen so many times. CoD: The Next One. SFIV. The list goes on. As for how this equates to FS, for the people who actually play it and what we've read thus far, it does look like it's going that direction and it clearly is having an effect in Japan. Now with FS finally showing up here, it's different ballgame. The way I see it, I echo Dandy's sentiment. I mean, sure, FS is not 4: EVO or FT, but at least it's a godsend considering we put up with SFIV and MvC3. I mean, FS may have simplified certain things, but at least from watching videos (just from my end) it still looks, moves, feels like the VF we all love and looks like a solid game, even though some of us feel it may not be for the better. Nevertheless, come next Summer, we're going to find out and decide for ourselves ontop of hyping it to no end because it's about bloody time that we get some fresh air in the market over here.

At the same time, however, this whole thing makes me wonder why can't Sega just take FS's mechanics, tweak them a little and make Fighting Vipers 3 out of it, in turn make VF6 for the folks who prefer classic VF as it's always been. Two very good and similar games for any crowd.

 

You say that, but I had never taken a fighter seriously before VF5. In fact the only fighters I had owned previously were MK4 and Fighters Destiny on the N64. Both of which prob had around 10 hours of play time put in to each of them.

The reason I got in to it was because I saw a TV advert for it, not a SEGA one but a 'Game' advert (a UK gaming store) that had it in an Xbox bundle with 2 other games. I bought this bundle and I'd say that the footage of VF I saw highly influenced my decision. It looked cool, it looked realistic, it looked like 2 people fighting and it looked like something I wanted to learn and play. Because it looked cool.

So you've never played Ocarina of Time then?

 

It's great that this has stimulated some real discussion here. We have vets who come off of previous VFs and we have newcomers who came in with VF5. Obviously, there will be a disparity on views as the basis of comparison will be different. It's like someone grew up with PS1 thinking that FF7 is the best RPG ever while someone my age would think it's something like Wizardry. For new players, I encourage you to seek out what's come before to really understand where VF has come from. For old players, I encourage you to adapt and not become jaded but at the same time, leverage your experience. When I wrote in this thread, I often reminded myself of rsw who hated VF4 as he came off of VF3. I never felt he gave VF4 a fair chance which I've given to VF5 so many times since 2006.

I don't have more to say from my side except get it when it comes out, play it inside out to get an educated view on the game, be competitive & play offline (the techs I refer to are about impossible to use online even on my fiber connection with people in Japan), and represent. If FS appears at tourneys around the States and EU, I want to see VFDC represent. It's great to meet new people and share your respect for the game but I think it's more important to also develop a competitive spirit to take the scene forward. So, I'll start off, "VFDC is gay!"

 

wow how can u not love this game how can people play sf so fake instead of vffs realastic play an martial arts i guess some people like cartoony games i dont see how

 

What a great thread. VF players are simply higher minded people.

 

LOL!

 

Pretty interesting discussion about the state of VF. I read the whole thread from Page 1. Very nice.

I hope to get more into VF myself. I've been training with VF4 Evo to somewhat prepare me for FS, which my friends bought for 360. Hopefully we'll all stick with it.

 

In the Soulcalibur community, many of us consider SC4 the best game in the series. The problem however is that SC4 is our "third strike". It brought the technical level of the game so high that only the tournament players liked it; it was not popular amongst pot monsters.

From what I'm hearing in this thread, you guys feel the same way about VF4. But you know what? I'm a VF pot monster; I didn't like VF4. Hell, I didn't even like VF5 as much as I would have hoped. But I am LOVING FS. I know lots of other Soulcalibur players who are loving FS.

If you look at the most popular game in the Soulcalibur series, it was SC2; which also tends to be one of the most disliked game by tournament players. But SC2 was popular and brought the pot monsters out. So I'm thankful for all these changes to FS that make the game more like SC2 and more popular.

 

lol... It would be more accurate to say that SC4 is possibly more popular than SC5 among top players, and that there's a currently a large divide on SC2's quality than to say that SC4 is outright the most popular. I know plenty of old-school SC players who quit SC4 because of numerous reasons (Hilde, shitty overall lows, larger focus on combos).

I can agree though that the changes to VF potentially made it more accessible in an overall positive way.

 

What are all the changes you're talking about? Is there a topic on this?

The only changes I see from VF4evo and VF5, to FS are:

1. Less throw directions, lazy TE, no MTE.
2. Re-bounce combos.
3. Some moves taken out and some added.
4. No more evade attacks.
5. Strings now track evades. NOT a noob-friendly change.