Why don't people use Akira's counters more in VF5?

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Not that you said it, but I'm not convinced that Pad is inferior to Joystick anyways. They are simply different. THis is assuming that pad isn't restricted to using 3 buttons. As that is something easier done on a joystick. Forcing a pad player to play with 3 buttons would be akin to trying to force a horse to run on two legs. Let a horse be a horse, and let a human be a human. I can recover from stagger easier on a stick, I can do some complex moves like SPOD easier on a stick, but I can definitely MOVE around better on a pad, and my over all striking game seems to be better on a pad. My overall defensive game, including mashing on buttons and the stick to recover from stagger is better on a stick. I'm still not totally convinced on using a stick yet, sometimes I play better, sometimes i play worse, and I know for sure, my friend is worse with a stick than on the pad.

Anyways, back to the topic. For whatever reason, I seem to reverse More often in VF4/evo than in VF5. I can't even explain, why that is, but it's something I've seen. I definitely prefer a pretty damn good sabaki over a reversal because the sabaki counters and if you guess wrong, you still can hit the character, vs. guessing wrong on a reverse equals getting killed or a stupid animation that puts you at a disadvantage.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

TAKE THAT BACK!!!

Nothing beats the "He gonna toss... fuck"

I make fart noises (most fake) when I play (better than VF sounds), and it goes well.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif *pfftump*

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is awesome for lp, p & high kick at small disadvantages...the risk is there but the reward is much better than the reversals for those moves.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif works against mid punches & elbows with a similarly higher reward than reversals.

Use reversals to end rounds or matches with some style.

Or do whatever you want./forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Oh, and akira's reversals work on half circular moves too.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Good to know.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Are you sure, I thought the rule for AKI counters were only on single limbed techniques (any technique that involve two body parts attacking simultaneously ala double palm strikes don't work) also no circular spinning movements don't works aka Lau's spin kick or high flying arial movements aka Pai's jump kicks don't work.
No Spin, No Double Limbs, No High Arial Attacks (acception of Lions jumping pecks).
Are you sure AKI can counter Spinning Circular moves?

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Akira can reverse half-circular moves. Not full-circular.

<span style='font-size: 8pt'>You quoted the half-circular in your own post - the one right above this one. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif </span>

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Akira can sabaki full circular punches too. Eg Shun's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Whoa. Thanks for that. I love 4P+K+G even more now.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Hi all, just my 2 cents on the issue:

Reversals are used for two things:

1. Discouragement

2. Finisher


As a player you'll want to occasionally make use of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to take away the opponent's fast mid. This tactic plays well in your favor because now you've discouraged them from being aggressive in advantaged situations. You also throw a new variable into the equation for them to deal with during play.

In a close match people tend to rely heavily on that one move or poke that'll net them the match. Use a reversal here to catch them with their pants down and finish them off.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Or rather then using that fast mid, they will throw you instead, since you're standing there with some stupid animation. Another option for them are high slams like Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

People have asked me too why I decide not to use them, and the question can be thrown back at them the same way: why should you use them? The damage on the reversals are crap, you freeze for that brief moment where your opponent might have an brilliant idea. If you need to he has 2 good sabakis that convert to actual damage.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

I think you should reevaluate your defensive options:

Simply hitting 1p+k is a basic tactic to beat mids, but what you should really be doing later down the road is 1p+k -> throw escapes. Not looking so stupid anymore...

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Risk isnt worth the reward anymore. In 2, you could option select and you would get a low or high jab to come out with a failed reversal. In 3, there was no more falied reverals jab coming out but you could still option select with throw escapes. Even still, I would say reversals where anywhere near vital in 3. That game it was all about guard break, sjk, dlc or mahoushouko counter hit dlc.
In 5, you are better off guessing an evade yoho or yakuhou chouchuu where you can get alot more damage.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

Jerky plz don't comment on my character when you're using perfect gay LOL.

I use reversals all the time but my Akira sucks though & I think Plague's Akira has surpass mine now. NOOOOOOOO! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Or the other reason ppl who don't use reversals are pussies.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

akiras counters don't really seem worth it. you risking 20 dmg when you opponent could hit you with so much more while your recovering. i would only risk a counter with venessa. her counters do 50 dmg which is a nice chunk of damage for a good guess.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

I think its beause akira has many sabaki that can be use instead. I personally use counters sometimes As I believe it can be seen as a better defense than blocking that is if u guess right. But remember always to throw escape while countering.

Also DubC, I am a pad player. I feel offended as i dodge alot. *sniffs*. Ha I am joking.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

In high level matches, moves are harder to catch since the other person knows what the other person might do. What good is a reversal if you know it is coming before they even do it. When one deals with newbies reversals are easy to connect since they don't do enough to stop them. This is one lesson I learned playing DOA use attack of all kinds high, low, and mid and don't follow up something with the same move over and over again in a predictable pattern. Skilled Akira players mix the jab with the high damage potential in his other moves to make people guess making reversals useless, even when one expects a mid elbow or knee the player can do a standing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif(a low sneak attack) and even jab to make the other person abandon their reversing strategy. When it comes down to it all comes down to attacking and basic defense and recovery, reversals can be a part of it but one should never depend on them to beat a good enemy. When I was playing Pai with her reversals when I was learning to play all I did was reverse and turn them around only to find the game didn't fall for them when I was dealing the best in the game and a skilled human player is even harder than that.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

It's true, the damage just isn't worth it anymore. Though I do believe that if you are using the 'play to win' strategy. Filtering your opponents moves using reversals may actually work well...

You can't 'abuse' them since well, if your foe is worth any salt, he'll be able to mix up his moves and throws properly. However, if you can kill them using only high/mid reversals [since they only mash and mashers can only attack high/mid mostly if they want to get anywhere...] Then by all means, I say counter them to hell...

But in high level play, you should spend more time using TFT, SPoD, 3p+k, AS3, and DLC juggling to win.

You can't 'logically' counter someone to death.

A strong offense can crack any defense. The best defense is a good offense. Want an example? I play as Eddy in Guilty Gear XX Accent Core and he's got the game's worst defensive capabilities. However, he's worshipped as a very difficult to use God-Tier offensive class character whose ONLY competition is on even ground with perhaps 3 other characters in that game...

Hit your foe to death, not block / counter them to death.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

I find counters to be great against low punch because you generally know when it's coming and the counter at least seems to come out faster than crouching. Though he also has his Low punch sabaki to use also.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

While Akiras low punch reversal is one of the coolest looking ones ("DOWN!") Akira has lot better options at his repertoire. If you predict low punch at close range, do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif-/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif giving you combo (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif~/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif-/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif-/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif)

Its a bit meh that Sega removed the old buttstagger out of low punch sabaki, now the basic followup combos are the same for both sabakied high and lowpunch.

 

Re: Why don't people use Akira's counters more in

a mjr reason i use low punch reversal is for the cool factor. It really feels satisfying especially when you yell WRAH when it hits.