Why fighting games suck

Hazz,

Im not going to read the article, but let me attempt to answer your question. why people dont play fighting games?

when I was growing up there were no videogmaes to speak of. I remember one guy owning a commodore64 and playing some kind of chicken game. then mario came out in the arcades. after that, it was either japanese games or doom-style games.

big japanese game companies used fighting and racing games as the Willy wawing standard. it took some time for non-japanese game companies to finally make a decent racing game, and they practically gave up on the idea of making a decent fighting game.

instead of taking the japanese makers head-on, the rest of the world started making FPS's. there is a certain Nazi fetish in the english-speaking world. any game that glorifies killing Nazi germans is a little self-congratulatory wank for the american subconscious.

That the reason why western games are more popular right now. people like killing nazis, and game makers cannot compete on the fighting games ground.

well, if you consider mortal kombat a good fighting game, disregard my post lol.

 

^

What a load of tripe.

 

chuckie egg it was

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lately the fighter genre has made a comeback with the release of Street Fighter IV and the upcoming release of Marvel vs. Capcom 3 which is scheduled for early next year. The question is, why? Fighting games suck. And not just because I suck at playing them but for several legitimate reasons. Fighting games had their heyday in the 90's when games like Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter II were released but since then there really has not been much improvement in the fighter genre as a whole. Unlike other video game genres that are constantly evolving and changing, the fighting game has pretty much remained the same. Racing games have become increasingly realistic, FPS evolve to meet the demands of the online gaming community, sandbox games have become more complex and detailed, and even RPGs have changed significantly from their early days. The only thing that has really changed about fighters is the number of characters in most of them could now rival a small army.

When the fighting genre did attempt to evolve by transitioning from 2D to 3D graphics, it was a disaster. Fighting in a 3D arena just wasn't the same and so fighters started to die out with fewer and fewer actual good ones being released. In recent times fighters have gone back to being 2D with 3D character models to give the impression of depth and now their popularity has one again sky-rocketed. When a genre actually has to revert major advancements because it couldn't adapt the gameplay to the changes, it's a warning sign that something is wrong.

Fighting games are boring because you're doing the same thing, one-on-one duels, over and over again. There aren't really any levels or storyline, it is just you, facing off against another character who is either controlled by a CPU or another person, and duking it out. Sure this could be cool for awhile but how many times can you repeat the same actions and still have fun? What other modes are there? Time Trial? Survival? How about coming up with a new mode where you have to fight three characters all at once? Oh wait...that was actually such a dramatic evolution that it became a whole standalone game (Smash Brothers)!

Many people complain that the yearly release of Madden is just the same game with updated rosters being repackaged and sold for full price but fighters are an even bigger offender of this. What really is the difference between Street Fighter II and Street Fighter IV? Cooler graphics? A couple new characters added to the roster? Is that really all the franchise was capable of evolving in the seventeen year timespan between the two arcade releases?

Fighters don't really take any skill to play, either. A lot of people probably would disagree with this statement and admittedly, I am personally bad at fighters but only because I have no interest at all in playing them. Being "good" at fighters isn't so much about actually having skill as it is having experience with the game and memorizing all of a character's techniques (which can be a ridiculously lengthy list). Once you can perform any technique at will, the only thing you need to do to become "good" is play the game enough to learn what beats what. Then, when your opponent performs a Dragon Uppercut you know you have to counter with a Fireball immediately. This isn't skill at the actual game, it's just memorization of a rock, paper, scissors mechanic.

Sometimes people will spam the same move over and over to win a match and it actually works. One example I can recall from Street Fighter is using M. Bison's down and B attack where he dashes forward. I remember people abusing this attack so much that it literally became the only one they performed in entire matches. If you saw an M. Bison vs M. Bison match, chances are it would be a war of the forward dashes. Take a look at the video embedded below where someone playing as Guile jump-kicks his way to victory. Does spamming this attack make him a good player?

This isn't a phenomenon that was only used back in the day, either. Recently playing Dragon Ball Z: Burst Limit on Xbox LIVE, the very first match I played the guy would simply spam energy attacks. Trying to get close enough to actually fight him proved to be quite a chore as an undefended ki blast can deal thousands of points of damage with a single hit. If I did close the distance he wouldn't even fight back, he would just fly away and resume his energy attacks. Sure I could counter this strategy by emulating it myself but why should I have to do that? Needless to say, it wasn't very fun. Not only is attack spamming a problem but it can be just as easy in many situations to button mash your way to victory. Randomly mashing buttons on your controller to come out on top isn't gratifying and isn't fun.

How fighters can be played competitively at a professional level I'll never understand. In First Person Shooters, not only do you need to have an expert level of precision aiming and knowledge of the game, but you also have to be able to outsmart your opponents. You need to be able to predict their strategy and adapt to their tactics. In most cases you also need to use teamwork to overcome the enemy team. Fighters aren't predictable at all because you never know how the other guy is going to fight. Will this guy spam jump kick? If so you just need to think about what beats that to win. Maybe will he spam Fireball so you have to think about what beats that and you'll win. Fighters come down to who has more experience to know what to do at any given moment, not about skill at the game.

The one exception to this argument would be Super Smash Brothers which took fighting games to a whole new level by taking one-on-one duels and turning them into a four player brawl. Stages actually matter in Smash Brothers as well unlike in other fighters which are just there for scenery. Spamming attacks in Smash still happens but with a lot less frequency and if all four players are still in the game, one attack is not going to be able to save you.

Most fighters are just the same game except with different characters and a different rock, paper, scissors mechanic to memorize. It is high time this tired genre either evolve or retire altogether.</div></div>

The entire article for a nyone who doesn't want to click it

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lately the fighter genre has made a comeback with the release of Street Fighter IV and the upcoming release of Marvel vs. Capcom 3 which is scheduled for early next year. The question is, why? Fighting games suck.</div></div>
Stopped reading it here, it seems like you can get paid nowdays for write articles even if you dont know how to do it.

 

Ok, so its a douche-bag article by a guy who hasn't spent more time with a fighting game other than to just mess around in it without actually understanding what he's doing.

And that right there is the very problem of fighting games.

An FPS has a very low entry point:
pick up cool looking gun > point at bad guy > click mouse.

Getting to a competitive level however takes hours upon hours of honing little tidbits, knowing where to be at what point in a round, keeping track of where other players tend to go so you can maximize your effectiveness by staying away from certain areas or conversely attacking through certain avenues, etc etc. These little increments are tiny though, their effectiveness almost invisible until they become second nature and then you find a skilled team rolling over their opposition like a well-oiled machine.

Fighting games do this almost in the opposite direction by having you needing to know a load of stuff before you can even start playing the game at all, let alone properly. But on the other hand when you pick up a new skill the difference shows immediately. Unluckily most players don't have the dedication to stick through that early part to get to the gratifying half of the learning curve.

Real time strategy games are extra-harsh. As you need to know what you're doing at the start and then only get better by tiny increments. But the difference between low and high-level play is extremely obvious and shocking in this genre though.

Maybe I should deconstruct this stuff and write an article about it.

 

Its very ignorant to think a product is good because of the high sales.Products with high sales are mostly made 4 the largest group of customers called mainstream.The developers producing 4 the mainstream know that the mainstream customers are average skilled dudes with an average intelligence so....

Since Im a underground music listener here is my best example to glorify the underground:
There is that dude Lil Wayne who sells millions of records.He is called a rapper.Thanks Auto-Tune!!!Now what....I can name u over hundred rappers that never sold over 200k but would totally destroy lilly with a massive lyrical ass beating in a battle.Just imagine Lord Finesse vs. Lil Wayne and u know whats up

BTW y do u play VF?Tekken is much better.Dont u see the sales.I thought u already learned something...damn im out i better play some browser games now.They are hot nowadays.I need one more thing to be happy:Give me a fighting game with just story mode.WTF is vs. mode?Im going to play it 4 years.It requires so much skill to beat the cpu

 

OK then im going to go Masterpo on your ass now!!

If we say that dexterity is not a sign of skills, then we could also argue that the skill of a video gamer is not in the output of his hands, but in the working of his brain.

that is to say, for example, that a great work of art must be first present in the artist mind, before he can put it on the canvass. geniality is something ethereal, and whatever is created is just a mere reflection of that geniality.

if so, all games are not a measure of innate skills, but of experience. no matter how clever or how original, to win at a game you need to learn by experience. unless its a game of simpler nature maybe? but i cant think of any game where experience is less important than original thinking. most games are rota-learning exercises.

maybe Tic-tac-toe is pure skills. or something so basic, yet complex.

but videogames are not like that, even tetris requires learning the basis. the best tetris players have been playing the game for ages i reckon. so games might not be the right way to measure pure skills, but the guy seem to imply that only fighting games are like that, which is bollocks.

 

Seidon can you please update your first post to be this please? I clicked on the link then read the second post in the thread and realized that I had just given this crapper money. Might help prevent him from getting more cash especially since this thread is top active thread right now.

I'm going to read the article eventually, but I'm in no real hurry. The quotes I saw all seem like they come from a person who doesn't really know what good journalism is.

I'm a little disappointed in some of the comments I'm seeing in this thread. This person is just some random guy writing an article that nobody who really has effect on the way things work will read.

This really ins't a huge deal to get up in arms about. . . If you're really that upset write an article explaining why fighting games are awesome. Lets produce the world we wish to see rather than give attention to the assholes who are trying to screw it up.

 

I don't think you lot really understood what I was trying to say.

I'm not saying fighting games are shit or require no skill.

I am saying that fighting games do not sell as many copies, as, in the eyes of most people, fighting games do suck TO THEM!

You can sit here as long as you want and try to tell someone "look man, these fighting games require bare skill and a strong mind" but why should anyone give a fuck about that? They can all just run around on CoD MW2 with their grenade launcher + scavenger and blow up the entire fucking map.

And Myke you say it's not about quantity right? Well look I'm telling you now as a player if there were more active players to play VF with I would surely be a lot more skilled than I am at the moment. These SSF4 fuckers are one of a few reasons why I'm not improving fast enough.

 

I edited the original post with the full article quoted and hid the link in a spoiler garbled up.

I'm curious if the page has a comment section and what people would have to say about it but if what Zerochan says is correct I don't want to support the writer and will not visit the site.

 

You're talking out of your ass. It's not because someone doesn't buy a type of game that he thinks that genre sucks. It more than likely is because that person preferred another game and how money tends to be a finite resource.

Lets talk about RPGs. I don't buy them any more because I just don't have that much time to play them. I love RPGs.

As for the arcticle, I couldn't be bothered to read all of it, but did he keep contradicting himself every other paragraph all the way through?

 

He's always talking out of his ass , so what else is new. Keep in mind Hazzerone is a retarded little kid. If he's not saying something racist , it's some other drivel. Ed Boon said in a recent EGM that there's a reason every fighting game released these days is a sequel. The market has shrunken since the mid nineties .

I don't agree with the article at all. It is not because of his opinion, but because he tried to alter the facts to make his point. To say fighting games take no skill is an outright lie. Spend time learning a fighting game's system will only get you so far. Skill is the x factor. Move input execution , is a skill. Adaptation is a skill. Problem solving and reading an opponent are skills. The author wasn't man enough to admit that fighting games take skill, but he couldn't be bothered to develop them. If he can't even be honest the whole argument fails.

 

Yep. I'm a retard. What are frames? Oh well...nevermind. Excuse me while I go gnaw my teeth on a tree trunk.

 

You think the reasons mentioned in the article are why fighting sales don't sell are you shitting me?
The things in the article are a COMPLETE LIE, and thats WHY fighting games don't sell, they require SKILL, LEARNING, TAKE AWHILE TO BE ANY GOOD AT. The general casual consumer just wants a quick fix.
They want EASY point click shoot controls the FPS genre has. EXTREMELY SLOW PACED EASY CASUAL FRIENDLY GAMES like WoW that you can LITERALLY MASTER A CLASS IN ONE DAY (I know from experience).
They also want simple "Do this" missions, where they are playing through a story, practically like watching a movie. Casuals don't play games to actually gain skills.

Saying fighting games require no skills and thats why people don't play them. That has to be the most retarded thing I have heard ALL YEAR. Its okay for a random journalist to say it, screw that, but saying something like this on OUR FORUM hazzerone is just fucked up.

 

I swear you people do not read you know...

Page 1 of thread, 5th comment down:

I don't even know why I bother to type here. These words aren't going to make the VF scene flourish full of players.

I am doomed to my average skill level for life.

 

You should keep calling people ignorant too, it's working wonders.

 

I disagree with the article in the way that it generally attacks all fighting games from a totally biased perspective, however aside from a few exceptions most fighting games are actually really bad, imo VF5 is the best there is, closely followed by KOF and SF, before VF5 I didn't even go near 3D fighting games.