Why fighting games suck

Great argument, I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors. I especially liked how you took the points that I made and decided to refute them by stating how old I was. However, your inference that my emotional state is "quaking in my boots" is puzzling. Ever hear of projecting your emotions on to someone else? . . . read about it if you'd like to learn more.

I'm done with this conversation just FYI. I completely disagree with about everything you've said about this topic. I was really looking forward to hearing your insight on this topic but it looks like you've shown me all you have to offer.

We don't need to agree, but we don't need to be disagreeable about it. I hope you learn this.

Just a little information about me. I'm a scientist, I get paid to take ideas break them down and look at it from another perspective and I'm good at my job. I constatly work with people who are 30 + my senior and roll with them like I was 50. I DON"T CARE that you're 17 or 18, really get that through your head. It was just a question . The fact that you're so riled up about a simple question tells me that you have some serious insecurities about your age. I know what it's like to be judged just because you're younger than someone. I'm not doing this to you. If you notice I asked for your age after our discussion not before.

Again I don't care

I also look forward to beating the living shit out of your virtua fighter character when VF:FS finally comes out. Eileen is going to wreak you so hard; you have no idea.

 

I especially liked how you took the points that I made and decided to refute them by stating how old I was.

Oh, so sort of like how this happened then?:

Followed by your reply of:

Also:

Yeh well I'm currently in school, doing English and my future basically depends upon how I analyse text? Sorry that I'm not 10 years older and already in a profession that counts on my ability to do so.

 

Okay guys it's 11:15 AM here, I'm waiting on a text right now and I gotta say I'm pretty bored. Please allow me to humour myself a little.

The name of this game is "find Tricky's points!" Right! Let's get searching!...

No points here boss! Jus' someone talking age!

Boss he's talking about my age again! Oh wait he says something about me attacking the posters and not the points they make! BOSS! I'M TELLING YOU! HE NEEDS TO READ MY REPLY TO JIGOHRO!!!

Boss, again I am too young. If only I was a college professor so this man could talk with me! I feel so neglected...

This age thing is pissing me off boss...WHERE...ARE...THE...POINTS?!

Boss, help me please? The man is trying to offer me a lollipop and possibly take me away in the back of his van!

Boss I swear he's taking the piss. Calling me a troll and then offering me lollipops...WHAT IS THIS SHIT?!

Boss...he's saying that I have no place on VFDC! Where will I sleep at night?! Gosh, he is so...ignorant!

And there you have it kids! The science behind arguments.

 

@ Hazz

Wow, really starting to make yourself look foolish now. Our argument is between us, don't ask me to read someone else's post and your response to them. Those are irrelevant to our discussion. Everything I've said to you have been based on what you have said to me directly.

I told you I'm done. I really am.I have nothing further to say on this matter with you. Go ahead and quote me if you want, just don't expect me to say much about it other than 'wow you look foolish'. . . if I decide to say anything at all.

We're cool man. I misread devils advocate as defensive then, sorry bout that.

 

I personally like FPS, I was simply making a point that if someone cared to make a biased, angry article spelling doom and gloom, one could do so about pretty much anything.
Well now, I won't try and pretend to be a specialist, but I could hazard a guess as to why FPS can put more modes and keep them interesting than, say, FG's or sports games. It's the basic premise. You need to keep certain elements in, or it will fall apart.

The premise of FG would be "melee duel", or more accurately, "melee combat tournament". Now, the premise of FPS would be "armed conflict". People can and do have armed conflicts about anything, anywhere, with any sort of different odds - and that's where diversity in FPS comes from, because it's easy to wrap one's mind around the concept of "fight as a team" "kill everyone" "defend objective" "destroy objective". In-game modes are permutations of real-life situations. They have to be, or the game loses its genre, its connection with the player.

Now, there's not much you can do with a "tournament". Fight as a team? Tag team battle. Beat opponents in a row? Story, arcade, w/e. Fight against all-comers? Survival. All within a premise, because frankly - that's what one expects. You can have all manners of a tournament-like combat, but what else could fit there?

FPS's "Armed conflict" is such a broad premise in itself that pretty much nothing else, no other genre could compare and STILL retain its identity. How about comparing FG with sports games? Or flight simulators? Racing games? Heck, even so popular RTS? See where I'm coming from...?

The popularity of, say, FPS over FG's is not due to the number of modes and whatnot, it's simply because there is more people who would like to relive armed conflict in-game than a tournament. Same reason why more people watch action movies than, say, MMA - it's what they prefer, and they cannot be blamed for it. No matter how excellent the MMA fight in question would be - it's a matter of preference.

 

He talked trash about everything except, Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur. Soul Calibur is changing the fighting genre.

 

I personally never played the first soul caliber. But 2 was good and it just went downhill after that when characters in the game suddenly became broken and overpowered in the later games. I had soul caliber 4 but got sick of it because the online was a joke and full of gimmicky shit like yoda. Half the people i played backed up to the ring edge for a quick ring out and were scrubs that pulled on you when it didn't work.

 

Couldn't you easily replace "fighting game" with just about any genre given enough ignorance? And I don't mean ignorance in an insulting fashion, I just mean that they might not know enough to formulate a proper opinion.

Hell to me most of what was written in that "article" could be easily applied to sports games or FPS games. That's because I play / buy one of those games so seldom.

Seriously FPS haven't changed in years, they added online, variations of kick the can, and dumbdown aspects of other genres, I'm looking at you RPG elements.

 

I personally would do for an update to the Bushido Blade series or A much improved samurai showdown game for weapon based FG's

 

Ya IMHO there really isn't much they can do with the FPS genre anymore. I looked at the trailers for Rage and other FPS games and they all seem the same to me. I notice that every several years a specific genre of games becomes the dominant genre. NES into the early 90's was adventure games. Mid 90's into 2000 was FG's and after that RPG's. now FPS's. Now the FG genre is on the rise again.

 

Bushido Blade was golden!!! I personally prefer 1 over 2 though... Samurai Spirits did come out with a newer version, but it wasn't recieved well (1 because it was a 3d game, and 2 because of the mechanics). It does look kinda cool though...

 

I was going to post a lot of choice quotes but it ended up being almost the entire article.
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"Racing games have become increasingly realistic, FPS evolve to meet the demands of the online gaming community, sandbox games have become more complex and detailed, and even RPGs have changed significantly from their early days. The only thing that has really changed about fighters is the number of characters in most of them could now rival a small army."


Some of this has been appropriately dealt with already, but I'd like to point out 3 facts that demonstrates the premise of this post is completely false.

1) Fighting games and the fighters were originally implemented by just programming graphic sprites (representing the fighter) to move forward, backward and up and down. And the fighting was largely a matter of computer animation. However, overtime fighting games have included more and more motion capture which has been a significant move towards more realism (e.g. Baek, Goh,Jean,Lei Wulong,Mitsurugi, Kilik, Feng Wei etc)


2) The top tier fighting games require more skill to master than any other kind of video game. Many fighters have 50,60,70+ (some have 100+) basic moves to learn. Then these moves are combined into countless combos and sequences, and then there is the speed, agility, and judgment involved in knowing when, where and how to use the moves, the rings, the clock, your opponents health bar. No FPS, or RPG requires anything close to the type of per-second split decision making that a fighting game requires. Only the most advanced RTS games come close. Of course noob vs noob is another story, but when we are talking about intermediate to advanced play; fighting games absolutely require the most memory, decision making, agility, dexterity, judgment, hand-eye-coordination, and sheer stamina.

3) The notion that fighting games haven't evolved is completely uninformed. Many of my VFDC brethren may not agree with me here, but I include UFC 2009/2010 and the Fight Night series in the fighting game genre. Even though they can be understood as sport games as well. But the sport that they represent is fighting. UFC 2009/2010 FNR have taken realism in fighting games to a whole nuther level. Also the complexity required to master these fighting games is substantial. Although the complexity is different than VFs, Tekkens, SC it still requires a great deal of skill,knowledge, stamina, speed, hand-eye-coordination, and memory. I'm playing UFC 2010 now it has lots of modes, Create a Fighter, career mode, exhibition mode, title defense mode, tournament mode, ultimate fights mode, and events mode[/size]. The UFC 2010, 2009, FNR and up and coming MMA have as much realism as any modern day FPS, racing game, or anything else, and there is plenty of immersion to go around.

I've said this several times before UFC 2010, up and coming MMA represent Next Generation Fighting games. And these games sell millions of copies in their first year. So the nonsense about people not playing fighting games is just that.

Once you include Fight night round IV, UFC 2009, 2010, MMA, and for that matter bombs like (DEF JAM ICON) then the argument of fighting games not evolving or keeping up with the times is really ridiculous.

Sure, the mechanics of MK, SC, Tekken, VF are basically the same, but the motion capture, stage design, musical scores, and character designs have dramatically improved. But these are all First Generation Fighting games(They are among the originals). The MMAs, UFCs of the world represent next generation fighting game and the move to realism and massive audiences.

Don't be fooled the next gen fighters do build on first gen fighters in many ways so it is an evolution. I am definitely a fighting game aficionado and have spent over two decades playing and studying fighting games.

Marvel vs Capcom 3, SSFIV, KOF, MK, Blaze, Tekken, VF, SC, etc these games are standards and will probably experience revivals from time to time and they will always be played, but make no mistake about it, they are First Generation Fighting games.


The next generation fighting game are represented by the Fight Night series, the UFC series and the up coming MMA series. These fighting combat simulations will sell 3 to 5 million copies in their first year. They represent the new trend of fighting games.

So critics or critiques of the fighting game genre have to consider both first generation and next generation fighting games. You cannot leave UFC 2009/2010, MMA and FN out of any serious discussion of modern day fighting games, even if the fighting in these games occur within the context of sport.

I am a devout VFer, I dabble in Tekken and SC, but these games are like Pac Man, they are classics but do not represent the state of the art any more. Trying to compare Tekken, or VF to Modern warfare, or red redemption, in terms of realism or mass appeal is not apples-n-apples. Compare COD, MW2, ACII, RR, Halo,etc to Fight Night Round 4 or UFC 2010 for realism, game modes, Sales, back-story, etc. Add the sales figures for UFC 2009, UFC 2010, and FNR4, and then ask yourself:

Do Fighting Games Really Suck?

 

You really twisted the words right around on a few of these points to be perfectly honest with you Myke.

Fine man, you get this point. You and Jigohro have got the better of me in this point.

This is an example of you twisting words. Please comment on what I wrote rather than what I highlighted in bold from the article.

This is wrote in the opinion of the author, right? Please remember this word - opinion. For this author fighting games SUCK! You have to accept that fact. Everybody has different opinions that is the very thing that makes it an opinion (personal opinion), that and also you cannot ever suggest that fighting games do not suck as a FACT.

No, dude, I really am not confusing anything here. If fighting games don't SUCK for the majority of the people in the world then they would be more popular! Simple as that! And also I have to be honest with you guys that even I am starting to think VF sucks! Just because of the player pool. "Ahhhh yesss...let's enjoy a nice game of VF!...Nobody online" I am serious right now, this is the reality of VF (online). I want to fight someone? On to VFDC it is for me. Myke I have to say man, VFDC is the best fighting game (hell, even gaming) site I've ever joined. It offers a lot of information on the game and is ALL that you need (along with a functional brain, and players) to get a grasp upon VF. As nice as this community is it is BULLSHIT that I cannot play a game. Even as a player - even a fan of the game which logs onto this site whenever possible I have to say it's pretty bloody shitty when all I can do is READ about the game and WATCH videos of it (and it's successors) being played! Damn even when I do play it's the same old people and I truly cannot make any progress on my skill - the very thing I am looking to do when playing my fighting games!!

Yep, I have never truly been to the arcades and put money into them to play fighting games (apart from the one time I was in Butlins/Pontins and I played a 3D fighting game - must have been either DoA or Tekken, can't remember I was very young and had 0 interest in fighting games at the time). Trust me though put an arcade with fighting games in my city and a few decent players and I'm there like a shot! It would be very unrealistic to ask a 16 year old boy to travel to London to play fighting games in the arcade! I have however, travelled to London and played a few sessions of various fighting games. I even travelled to London and entered Neo Empire.

EDIT: Sorry that this post turned out looking like utter shit, too many [quotes] and etc for me to make it look right. Can't be bothered to get it to look right this time, sorry lol.

 

Funny that he explained why he felt that FPS games take skill when the exact same thing could be said for fighting games and why they take skill.

Then, as his epitome of all fighters, he lists Super Smash Bros???

This dude is talking straight out of his ass.

 

Wonder if this guy read this thread.

 

There is really only one point I think is worth getting from this huge mess of tl;dr. Fighting games are too hard to get into because beginners can't easily understand what it takes to be good at them. If you made a fighting game that did a better job of clearly illustrating why you lost and what you could've done differently, it would likely have massive mainstream appeal. But we knew that already, didn't we?

 

People still giving this thread the time of day.

 

I was out of town, so I missed it while it was fresh.