Why fighting games suck

This is a flat out lie. I know people who are / have been top Swe Q3 players and let me tell you you know nothing. People would suck their cocks if they asked it in a friendly tone. They sign autographs. Who the fuck cares if you're nr 1 in UFC2010 seriously? Why are you talking about communties which you, in your own words, know nothing about?

I have 2 questions for you;

1) Do you agree that in order to be top 5 (within your country) in a game like CS / Q3 you have to put in more time (work) into the game then to be so in VF? Your statments in your last post seem to think this isn't the case.

2) What do you think is the hardest - to play a perfect match in VF (doing the correct guesses / choices over and over) or in a 10-20min match in Q3?

As it's probably clear by now I definatly think FPS games require more skill. There simply is no margin for error and you play on marginals on an entirily different level. Something equal of a SF4 player missing a link would mean the game is over in an FPS. Still people can do comebacks in fightinggames though. They (FPS's) definatly require more hand/eye coordination. I also think they require higher reflexes.

You're running around 20min not knowing what to expect trying to hit a few pixels on your screen in a flash of an eye. In fightinggames you know (or should know) what to expect if you're not a scrub. You also have buffering (most of the time) to help you. The higher player base also leads to stronger players at the top (it is like this in all games) so you need to work much harder to compete. I could take a person with average intelligence, teach nitaku a few combos and not to be overly aggressive and he would be a threat (note, threat not win). I could do this for instance in Tekken using Bob mixing up HS and crackerjack or something similar. There's no way you could do something like that in an FPS shooter, you need tons and tons and tons of experience, practice of aim, learning timing, learning movement, learning maps. Do you know how much work it is just to learn a map and priorities, ways of moving about it, interceptionpoints etc? It's laughable to me that you talk about how hard it is to learn a movelist as if that is where the skill lies. Learning a single map in an FPS requires more work. Hell you can discard 4/5's of your movelist if you just know it beforehand in most of the cases. Upsets happen in fightinggames all the time. No names that aren't in good clans don't come and win tourneys in FPS's.

FPS+RTS skill >>> Fightinggame skill. If this is painful for consoleheads to hear, I appologize. I really don't think it's even an argument.

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U R correct, I'm not up on the FPS community. So you're right there I don't really know how much respect you get if you're on top in the world of FPS (sucking cocks) wow! I don't think we would get that in the fighting game community. Even our number one players couldn't get the fans to suck their cocks. So if that's the case in FPS, I stand corrected. All my experience with shooters is in 3rd person shooters. I made the assumption that 3rd person shooters and FPS required about the same amount of skill. Perhaps I'm wrong. I do know a lot though about learning maps, moving about, priorities, weapon choices, capabilities, damage levels, ammo counts, tactical take downs. But primarily in 3rd person shooters. I know what its like to compete at a high level in MGO so I assume COD4, Q3 wouldn't be much different am I wrong?


KiwE, I'm curious, are you a top tier VF player? Meaning have you competed in won against advanced players in VF? I'm just curious.

Maybe I've stumbled across something that I'm talented at. I pick up shooters, and IMHO they require skill, but not as much a fighting games. I perform reasonably right off the bat in online shooters, so perhaps I have an unrealistic view of FPS.

KiwE seriously top Swe Q3 players sign autographs and could get their cocks sucked by the fans, wow maybe in this particular instance I'm wrong. If your FPS gaming skill could lead to cock sucking by the fans... Viva la FPS

Definitely I apologize to the FPS players out there, I had no idea. Cock Sucking... Nope Fighting game champs don't have that opportunity (At least I don't think they do) I'm not a top tier player so I Can't be sure. I do know the fighting game stars sign autographs, but even if they were polite I don't think the fans would suck their cocks.

KiwE are their any female fans in the FPS Q3A community? </div></div>

I have played CS for years (not recently but in the past) and I was NEVER even CLOSE to being in the top leagues in that game. The game just requires INSANE levels of hand eye coordination and reflexs, shit that you sometimes think is impossible.

I also have a cousin who was a semi-pro CS player and he just shat all over me even when I was doing my best and he was at his worst. In CS EVERY SINGLE GUN shoots differently. They all have different accuracies and recoil behavior, you can spray and pray much easier with a m4 mid range than an AK.
Theres things like gernade placement and timing that is different for EVERY map. Tactics and strategy also get exponentially more complicated because its NOT JUST 1v1 its fucking 5v5!

Also po, you are RETARDED if your judging your 3PS skill on random online games. Go join a clan and start scrimming and doing matches and watch yourself get raped up the ass. A lot of really good players don't even do public matches and are just scrimming/doing matches and going over tactics/strats with there clan.

I remember my cousin talking about how he gets bored in pubs and him and his friends try to find hackers (who have AUTO AIM AND WALL HACKS) to make it interesting. They can kill a hacker with perfect aim faster than they can kill them, thats how ridiculous pro CS players are.

Honestly, it would be SO MANY times easier to become pro in a fighting game than a shooter. Memorize a few flow charts and learn all the characters weaknesses and your good, you don't have to somehow upgrade your reflexs and accuracy to absurd hacker-levels let alone know maps with specific and many tactics strategy gernade points etc.

oh PS, CoD is a crap game compared to CS if thats what your basing this on. CoD has fucking PERFECT AIMING when your zoomed in even if your spraying, absolutely retarded (The last one I played was MW1 and I played a little of World at war).

 

U R correct, I'm not up on the FPS community. So you're right there I don't really know how much respect you get if you're on top in the world of FPS (sucking cocks) wow! I don't think we would get that in the fighting game community. Even our number one players couldn't get the fans to suck their cocks. So if that's the case in FPS, I stand corrected. All my experience with shooters is in 3rd person shooters. I made the assumption that 3rd person shooters and FPS required about the same amount of skill. Perhaps I'm wrong. I do know a lot though about learning maps, moving about, priorities, weapon choices, capabilities, damage levels, ammo counts, tactical take downs. But primarily in 3rd person shooters. I know what its like to compete at a high level in MGO so I assume COD4, Q3 wouldn't be much different am I wrong?


KiwE, I'm curious, are you a top tier VF player? Meaning have you competed in won against advanced players in VF? I'm just curious.

Maybe I've stumbled across something that I'm talented at. I pick up shooters, and IMHO they require skill, but not as much a fighting games. I perform reasonably right off the bat in online shooters, so perhaps I have an unrealistic view of FPS.

KiwE seriously top Swe Q3 players sign autographs and could get their cocks sucked by the fans, wow maybe in this particular instance I'm wrong. If your FPS gaming skill could lead to cock sucking by the fans... Viva la FPS

Definitely I apologize to the FPS players out there, I had no idea. Cock Sucking... Nope Fighting game champs don't have that opportunity (At least I don't think they do) I'm not a top tier player so I Can't be sure. I do know the fighting game stars sign autographs, but even if they were polite I don't think the fans would suck their cocks.

KiwE are their any female fans in the FPS Q3A community? </div></div>

I have played CS for years (not recently but in the past) and I was NEVER even CLOSE to being in the top leagues in that game. The game just requires INSANE levels of hand eye coordination and reflexs, shit that you sometimes think is impossible.

I also have a cousin who was a semi-pro CS player and he just shat all over me even when I was doing my best and he was at his worst. In CS EVERY SINGLE GUN shoots differently. They all have different accuracies and recoil behavior, you can spray and pray much easier with a m4 mid range than an AK.
Theres things like gernade placement and timing that is different for EVERY map. Tactics and strategy also get exponentially more complicated because its NOT JUST 1v1 its fucking 5v5!

Also po, you are RETARDED if your judging your 3PS skill on random online games. Go join a clan and start scrimming and doing matches and watch yourself get raped up the ass. A lot of really good players don't even do public matches and are just scrimming/doing matches and going over tactics/strats with there clan.

I remember my cousin talking about how he gets bored in pubs and him and his friends try to find hackers (who have AUTO AIM AND WALL HACKS) to make it interesting. They can kill a hacker with perfect aim faster than they can kill them, thats how ridiculous pro CS players are.

Honestly, it would be SO MANY times easier to become pro in a fighting game than a shooter. Memorize a few flow charts and learn all the characters weaknesses and your good, you don't have to somehow upgrade your reflexs and accuracy to absurd hacker-levels let alone know maps with specific and many tactics strategy gernade points etc.

oh PS, CoD is a crap game compared to CS if thats what your basing this on. CoD has fucking PERFECT AIMING when your zoomed in even if your spraying, absolutely retarded (The last one I played was MW1 and I played a little of World at war).
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I have heard of four russian girls, Pachella, Venema, Svetaska, and happy Lara, that are supposed to be amazing at CS. I do know that CS is a top tier game in the FPS community. Once again, IMHO FPS require skill. Now you and KiWe have made clear that it requires insane amounts of skill. I will also grant you that. And the fact that Kiwe says that if you have enough skill (and if you ask in the right tone)the fans will suck your cock, well, that's pretty hard to beat.

Sharp7, just out of curiousity, are you a top tier player in VF. By that I mean have you competed with and won against any
of the advanced players in VF? I'm just curious.

As far as you see it; to be a top player in VF all you have to "do is memorize a few flowcharts and the characters weaknesses and your good" Do you really believe that?

So you don't think speed, stamina, endurance, hand-eye-coordination, dexterity, agility, hand/forearm strength has anything to do with being a top player in a fighting game?

Are you aware that you can memorize the buttons for a move in a fighting game, but not have ability to actually pull that move off in a high pressured situation? Just because you know what's required to do a move, doesn't necessarily mean you have the chops to pull it off right So the memorizing flow-chart thing sounds a little suspect. Sharp 7 Have you competed against any advanced VF players offline (win or lose)?


I actually know Madden players that feel that playing Madden requires more skill than VF. Some of them make a convincing argument just like you and KiWe. BTW Madden 11 is awesome. But
I've never met any that suggest that top Madden players (if they asked with the right tone) could get the fans to suck their cocks. So I think FPS has the upper hand compared to Madden too and by the supposition that top FPS players can get fans to suck their cocks suggest to me that FPS has to require more skill than Madden right KiWE? (at least on paper it does)

Here's the deal.

I don't know KiWE. I don't know Sharp7. But if you guys are
truly top players in VF (offline community) or advanced players in VF (offline community) , and you still feel that FPS games require more skill, then I stand corrected. I apologize to all of the FPS gamers out there that I may have offended.

On the otherhand, if KiWE and Sharp7 are not among VF's best players or top players then, I'm forced to conclude that both of you chaps (cock sucking aside[/size]) are operating without all the information necessary to make the proper assessment. And I will stand by my original proposition
that Fighting games require more skill than FPS

Now what's not clear in my mind is whether Madden requires more skill than FPS, or whether Final Fantasy XVII requires more skill than FPS. Actually I'm told that StarCraft requires as much skill or more than CS. That I don't know. I don't play StarCraft or CS. Does Madden require more skill than StarCraft? Look I have no idea. But unless KiwE and Sharp7
are truly top tier advanced VF players or even Tekken players (offline) I will stick with the premise that top tier fighting games require more skill (by my defintion of skill)
than any other kind of video game

 

So your whole argument is, you have to be a TOP fps and a top VF player to make this judgement? or atleast one of the two? sorry but YOUR NEITHER, heck you don't even have a freaking xbox and just play the comp all day.

I've played AGAINST some pretty great VF players, and I've played AGAINST some amazing fps players and I consider myself being pretty decent at both games at one point or another.

Also "So you don't think speed, stamina, endurance, hand-eye-coordination, dexterity, agility, hand/forearm strength has anything to do with being a top player in a fighting game?" honestly, I don't main in akira but every other character I've played as I can do there movelists pretty easily its really not that difficult, anyone with a years experience of VF can probably pull off all the moves but can you pull off probably any of the shit that top FPS players can? Headshots with absurd reflex? fuck no. The VF commands have a limit, if you can do them theres little point in learning to do them faster than the animations, FPS aiming has A UNLIMITED SKILL LEVEL, you can always get faster and more accurate.

It doesn't really matter they are both top tier deep as fudge games, but when it comes to things like hand eye coordination aiming>anything in a fighting game just because it can always get better and with complicated shooting systems like CS timing your bursts and other aspects becomes important as well.
Some Fpses also have unique guns that have strange arcs, slow speed or other properties that require insane skill to predict not only where the shot will go but do it well and fast enough that you can catch opponents with them.

Fighting games are a bit simplified as well, he goes for a linear, you evade, if he goes for a high duck, (of course predicting this a bit tricky) but with FPS games what is the counter to 2 Terrorist going B throwing flashes/gernades and playing evasively and 3 Ts rushing A, but after a few min dropping down to B tunnels and going to B soon as people start moving from B to A? I'm describing the Dust2 map in cs btw.
its not as clear cut... finding out what a team of 5 is doing is hard, and figuring out how to counter it, and there are an infinite number of ways to lead a 5 man team, in a few seconds and leading your team to victory is even hard.

w/e this is a pointless argument, there is no definitive skill meter, and its clear VF and CS are both deep enough. We all have no hard data no clear cut meter stick to measure this by only BS explanations. But if someone came up to me and said "I will end you and your families life UNLESS you manage to place top 3 in american gaming competition, you are only aloud to choose between CS and VF5 vanilla" I would pick VF hands down shooters take more work and there are too many factors that go into who wins a 5v5 or even a 2v2.


anyway to get constructive, I think more fighters need team battle systems. watching a team battle in a VF tourny is WAY more fun than a 1v1, it would be nice if they ATLEAST had lobby systems to allow easy playing of team battles. Imagine how fun 2v2s would be with ur best buddy online? This is in other fighters but they need to upgrade the diversity of fighting game modes team battles should just be the beginning.
I heard there will be a lobby system in MK. If when MK comes out, it having VASTLY SUPERIOR basic game modes than vanilla 5 is going to be depressing, especially since if FS does come out I have a feeling it will NOT have many game modes or a tutorial or anything

 

"But if someone came up to me and said "I will end you and your families life UNLESS you manage to place top 3 in american gaming competition, you are only aloud to choose between CS and VF5 vanilla" I would pick VF hands down shooters take more work and there are too many factors that go into who wins a 5v5 or even a 2v2."

this just won the thread.

GG

 

Hi Sal.

 

There was one

 

True, remember when you all tried to play me in UT, even double team me and I Merc'd the lot of you? Fun stuff!

 

What the fuck?? Are u guys serious? Dude most of yall are just full of shit or simply hating on masterpo. fighters are less complex than shooters?? is that what im hearing(reading) from u guys right now? SHAME on most of u bullies, hypocrits, haters and bandwagoners. Although there is no way to quantitatively prove that one is more complex than the other, instinctively u should all be able to tell which genre requires the most skill. So basically if masterpo had said that chess is more complex and thus requires more skill than checkers, then everyone here would flame him. Now i dont know if u can quantitatively compare the skill levels between chess and checkers, but anybody who has played both generally realizes this. U dont need some fancy scientific/mathmatical proof either. You can just feel that chess requires much more than checkers. If you cant feel that skill gap(whether its more or less) between fighters and ANY OTHER VIDEOGAME, then u must be hating, fanboying, or mistaken(due to poor subject knowledge).

 

And yall haters know yall just hatin too. I mean come on, im reading posts claiming that proficiency of command inputs isn't incredibly difficult and super skillfull. What!?!? People saying shit likes "its just muscle memory" and "once its technique is memorized its no longer skillfull". So i guess once i learn the mechanics for pitching a slider, or shooting freethrows or bowling a strike then its all over. U guys must bowl a 300 every game...no one here ever misses wide open corner 3's...damn how do u guys sink the same balls into the same pockets on break like that? Oh I see, its in your muscle memory and now you always get the same exact results. Now i totally see why kickers never miss 50 yarders, always nail the coffin corner punt and go for onside kick off everytime. Inputs arent skill...please. LOL

 

Oh and by the way...any competition, craft, or activity that involves luck is inherently less skillful than one that does not. Out of all the fps games ive played they all have an intrinsic luck factor, while fighters are void of luck (just like chess).

 

I can feel it. I can feel it.

 

@leaveit2me thanx for the backup dude. Takes courage to step into this beehive.

@Sharp7 You unequivocally proved my point concerning both you and KiwE The dead give away occurred in two or three places in your response. First when you said you don't think fighting games (in particular VF) require speed, stamina, hand-eye coordination, agility, or dexterity hand/arm strength have anything to do with being a top player. That response let me know that you must get elminated right away in single elimination, or you don't win very long in double elimination, or you have never been in top tier in tournaments that last 10+ hours and you haven't seen anyone play under these conditions. Even If you'd watched the videos of the Japanese players executing the moves in VF4 Evo,
it would be obvious that dexterity, speed, eye-hand are a necessary requisite. But the fact that you don't think they're necessary let's me know that even as a VF player (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there) that you've still haven't been around the real thing long enough, or if you have, you weren't paying attention.

Secondly, when you made the claim that you would fight in any American Gaming Competition, demonstrates that you don't believe what you're saying, because you know the Japanese
are among the strongest VF players, and you know that you
could not place top 3 against the Japanese, Koreans, etc and
you probably would stand a better chance in some FPS tournament. That's why you specified American Gaming Competition

Third I asked if you were top tier VF player? A simple yes or no would have sufficed. Instead you went after me. Attacking my skill set was not relevant. The question was to you. Your response speaks for itself you are not now, nor have you ever been a top tier VF player.

The fact that you place the skill of FPS aiming and map memorization, up against all of the skills required to be top tier in the fighting genre, demonstrates that not only are you
not top tier in the fighting genre, but you must be no better than mediocre in FPS. You deemed yourself decent in both, I will take decent to mean mediocre.

In my past I have had to defend winning brackets in VF in tournaments that have lasted 10+ hours, I know what your wrists, forearms, and fingers feel like after having won round after round, and sitting down opponent after opponent. I know it requires speed, dexterity, agility, and stamina, to win long term, because I have had to use all of them to survive Iron man tournaments in VF and trust me if you don't have them, you won't last long.
That's why I know you're not the real deal, because of your response. I'm not even top tier, but I do know what its like to be on a winning streak, and it takes focus, hand-eye-coordination, speed, dexterity, forearm strength to defend that streak especially if you're in a tournament where you have 3-to-5 round matches at 45-60 seconds a round and there are upwards of twenty or thirty people in the tournament(do the math potentially 5min * 8 rounds * 4 matches * N people). You need fuckin endurance to stay king of the hill under those circumstances, and I have experienced that a few times in my past. For you to say that being top tier doesn't require speed, endurance, stamina, agility, hand-eye-coordination gave you away. Maybe you spend most of your gaming time on FPS, because its obvious you're not a fighting game tournament warrior.

Also, you and KiwE are out of yall minds if you think, that you can come onto a message board dedicated to Virtua Fighter perhaps the greatest fighting game ever made, and demean the skills required to play it at top tier, minimize the warriors that play the game, and reduce the entire genre to aiming in a FPS.

When you said that you played against some pretty great VF players, but some Amazing FPS players, that gave you away dude. You're not a top tier warrior and it is now clear that you don't know what it takes to be one in the Fighting genre.

Sorry Sharp7, KiwE, and all of the rest of you FPS enthusiasts
out there, you can't come onto VFDC spreading the gospel of FPS and expect that !@#$ to sell.

I don't give a flying F!@# about 2x2, 5x5, 8x8 and all the variables, win sheer, map size, gun calibration, bullet weight,
vehicle speed, scope accuracy, map contour complications,hair color, boot size,etc. that you claim is necessary in a FPS

In a fighting game, its 1 vs 1, warrior vs warrior, me vs you, my personal skillset vs your personal skillset. And when your talking even intermediate tournament level competition. You need hand speed, hand-eye-coordination, endurance, dexterity, agility, acute-spacial-reasoning, considerable memory-movement recall, physical stamina, mental stamina, the heart of dragon, anticipation of a tiger, and the wrath of the gods. And the longer your winning streak and the longer you're in the brackets the more of it you need. Talking about how tired your trigger finger gets during FPS competitions, doesn't even come close.

go stroke the MW2,CS,Quake, Doom communities with the stuff you're sellin. It aint flyin on VFDC, especially not when you're trying to sell it to a warrior.

I am MasterPo the LastMonk, Tiger Near, Dragon Far and I have defied gods and demons, within my heart there is absolutely no
fear

 

this is the heart of your delusion.

 

Shut the hell up masterpo. People like you are the reason some people wish Shang was not banned.

 

I can't believe I'll be posting here again. But hey

To be clear, I think fighting games are harder, but I will never ascertain that as fact because I can't prove it nor am I qualified enough to do so. (EDIT: I'm also biased as fuck)

 

I agree with you here Po, just that I can't see what the fuck how strong your arm is has to do with anything.

Don't even try bullshitting me with "oooh well you clearly haven't played fighting games for 10 hours+ have you" I'd wager a bet that I've sat down and played fighting games for extended periods before.

You see the Japs that play VF? Do they look particularly big to you?

You're going on like the heart of VF offline is like some sort of armwrestling elimination tournament.

Po, if you think your arm is stronger than my arm you can fly over to England sometime alright?

That goes for the rest of you aswell, I'm calling VFDC armwrestle meet.

 

@cuz, @Hazzerone, my faith in rationality is restored


Hazzerone, I'm not saying you have to have big arms

What I am saying is that playing VF using something like
a Hori Fighting Stick 3 for extended periods upwards of 4 or 5 hours at a time during intense competition does require a certain amount of forearm, wrist,finger, and hand strength. You might not notice it, because you probably have developed it over the years playing the game. So you already have it. But I do remember when I first started seriously competiting in VF, my hands and finger conditioning was originally not up to the task. After playing for hours, I knew what I wanted to do mentally, but my reflexes would start to slow, my finger speed, would start to slow, I would get that sluggish feeling in my hands.

I realized that to be tournament ready, I would have to practice VF a certain number of hours per week, to keep my reflexes and strength up. If you play VF using something like a Hori for say 7 or 8 hours continuously, you will actually feel it in your forearms. I know I do. Also if you don't play for a while say a couple of months or so, and then jump right into a tournament where the other players have not taken any time off, you will see right away, that hand speed,strength, forearm conditioning play a big part.

I've played 3rd person shooters for extended periods of time, with pretty damn good kill ratios and don't feel anywhere near
the physical or mental drain that I feel when I'm playing in a protracted VF tournament.

I guess people who get eliminated right away, probably don't get the stamina thing, or people who've never been in an iron man competition probably don't understand that fatigue can affect forearms,wrists,fingers, and hands, but it can especially if the competition is at intermediate to adavanced levels.

 

Please. Using an arcade stick does not require a lot of arm strength at all. If you get sore or your arms stiffen up from the repetitive motions, it means you are pathetically out of shape. Like you have below average atrophied muscle tone from laziness or plain neglect. My older brother is 40 and he's so out of shape , he refused to play UFC 2010 against me my younger brother because he couldn't keep up and his arms got sore. We had to march his over to the gym, not for video games mind you, but he was terribly out of shape and got big as a house.

 

You know there type different types of shooter out there. Twitch shooter(quake, unreal, god help me halo)/Tactical shooter (rainbow six, call of duty, etc) with tf2 somewhere in the middle. Both of which requires high skill just in different places.

Twitch are more like the fighter games (1 on 1 deathmatch is actually fun in a twitch shooter). You need to use defense (bunny hopes, jump shots, and other skills) to keep from getting your ass blown up. While on the affiance you need to set traps, make well timed, reaction, and accurate shots to get kills.

Twitch = Accuracy, movement, and timing. Which we all can agree is important in all fighting games

Since you brought kd up as your refrence in FPS's I'm assuming all your FPS time is in COD which is a tactical shooter. I know there is a lot of deepshits that like to play it like halo(use lame gimmicks to show off rather than get the safe kills, shit talk rather than listen to a teammate tell them that there about to get flank, and call it gay or cheep when you kill them behind cover.)

Tactical shooters require a different set of skills which are coordinating attacks, flank, spotting tangos. Learning how to hold the line or reading enemy movements. Covering friendly's so they can complete the objective e. i. set the bomb, defined the bomb, etc.

Tactical = using Teamwork skills. Which at high level play is chess match which the rook can give you his opinion on what the king is thinking.

My point is FPS require just as much thinking as any fighting game out there. Just that it's a different type of thinking.