Your own changes for ver.C Evo

Akira's is two drinks alone, and you can pull it off twice after a match in some cases. That's 4... an easy 4 as well.

 

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Akira's is two drinks alone

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+ , + , +++ is five drinks altogether (open stance only). Which can be done after the round is over, and Shun is doing the longest version of the crumple, which can be initiated by contacting Shun for the KO with a single striking attack, that doesn't knockdown/float/flop/etc.
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Most characters can at least get -3 DP on Shun after a round.

 

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GaijinPunch said:

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That hit throw is the only thing he's got going for him!


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The *ONLY* thing? How many times have you played w/ Jeffry?



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Easy, tiger. I was just making light of the comment. But since we're talking seriously about it for a moment, let's play theory fighter:

If Jeff's TKoD gets nerfed, he should be provided some compensation. Jeff doesn't have a whole lotta weapons as it is. Nothing on the order of a Lei Fei or an Akira or Pai or Wolf.

In addition, ARE hurts Jeff the most IMO because opponents get out of disadvantageous situations much more easily. Since Jeff is forced to play traditional defense, his only options for creating openings against faster characters (which is everybody) is by defending successully against them, usually creating small advantages for himself - my guess is that this is the essence of nitaku. Trying to score interrupts to create openings is worhtless because of his speed, and especially against players who know how to deal with low punch. When he *does* score the rare counter, e.g. with a toe kick, he should be rewarded tremendously.

For a guy that absolutely *needs* advantage because of his speed, ARE is not good, and nerfing TKoD doesn't help one bit. It's not like he can fall back on other great moves in his arsenal, like ... /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif So if we absolutely *need* to nerf TKoD, then something else has gotta change. And for the better.

 

Well, then either lower the number of drink points lost from using moves, give him more drinking options or just don't give him moves that use DP up. I'd have no problems with any of those options. For me it's more an annoyance than anything else, regardless of how he is used.

Hell, just stop any sort of state change after a match, drinking or sobering, and I'd be happy.

 

I would not change anything about the drinking game...its fine as it is...I might make his ++ evade high kicks and punches, and give him a move that follows up, like his + move, since in Drunken Kung fu, the movements are used to create openings.

 

Let Jeff's baseball pitch punch be cancellable.

 

restore jeff's b+P to it's former glory.

 

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Shadowdean said:
I would not change anything about the drinking game...its fine as it is...I might make his ++ evade high kicks and punches

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Excellent idea, really nice addition this would be to Shun's arsenal.

I would like it if Shun's P+K+G could be like Jeff's P+K+G stance, where instead of just talking a drink in the move, will instead cancel out the animation, and proceed into an attack. Of course if you did manage to attack, you would't get any DP's +, and maybe to balance it, in order to do an attack, you need to sacrafice a DP (or two).

 

This post made me happy, but not in a way you'd like. Forgive me for a second for going off on you, it's nothing personal.
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Aeon, how good are the guys in ohio, that you can talk about how ARE can be used to destroy his ability to inflict nitaku guessing games on disadvantaged opponents? Are you aware that doing ARE at -5 is so hard that [I bet] most japanese don't even try it? If you fuck up EDTEG, you might not guard at the end or you only escape the "best" throw. If you fuck up ARE by literally one frame at a -5 situation, you're eating any throw they choose, or you're eating a knee MC. It took me forever to capture ARE being successful at -5 and alucard said it was like 1/20 tries for him. If I'm jeffry, I'm loving a player who's gonna try to ARE. If I did somehow miraculously face someone who could ARE, I could probably toss out a jab, then low throw them at the end of their crouch dash animation. That's just theory fighter. I could also just wait 1~2 frames (just long enough for their attack to start executing) then try to stuff their ARE attack with d+P. The window is small, but typical reflexes will probably cause you to d+P 1~2 frames late anyway.

So bottom line, jeffry doesn't give a shit about ARE, at ANY level, much less the level that 99% of most VF players are at (even counting the japanese). ARE is overrated. Even if someone could do it every time, it's beatable. VF can't be broken with one technique.

Also you talk about lei and akira and wolf having all these openings jeff doesn't. VF isn't really about tiers and if it were, lei and wolf wouldn't be at the top. Jeffry has moves designed to create openings even if they're blocked, he has a ton of two hit canned combos that end in mid moves, which against average players means you're eating an attack or throw guessing game after just blocking the first move. f,f+P is the typical example but there are others.

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ok I'm done ranting. My opinion on the toe kick of doom... keep it, if you land that toe kick you actually landed a mid attack that is 1 frame slower than the knee. Your opponent could have just landed a knee combo for 85-100 points instead. Anyone who eats the toe kick damage deserved it, no question.

 

Hmmm...

You should never really mind me, as i tend to just pontificate on stuff. Of course, you're right. No one even uses ARE, and it's not a completely impervious defense even when done the right way. When I mentioned that Lei, Wolf etc. had more tools to create openings, i was only using them as an example. I think *everyone* else has got more tools to create openings than Jeff does. But that's the thing; everything Jeff does is high risk/high reward. I just wish he had more lower-risk moves. Oh well.

Sure, he's got a couple moves that create block stun, but the only viable ones are , and maybe elbow stagger on crouching guarders. Everything else seems to be too slow to be of use, or you gotta catch your opponent in weird timing situations, which takes more yomi than i can muster.

You do make an excellent point regarding his 2-hit delayable canned combos, like , and , (which i probably use way too often, but if ithe first hit lands you're guaranteed the second and a float in which you can usually get starfleet or dashing elbow-upper). And at least the first hit of the double upper isn't throw counterable, which is saying a lot when it comes to Jeffry.

Anyway, like i said, i was just spouting and playing theory fighter. I know there aren't really any tiers in VF - i didn't really mean to imply otherwise. And even if there were, it would be everyone else in the VF contender's tier, and Jeffry in the weak-ass-joke tier. /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif j/k

 

Give Wolf the peoples' elbow. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

I'm very happy with the character balance right now (but what's wrong with Brad Creed? I like him, and I think he can hang in there with the rest of the cast /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif)
But there are a few changes I would make.

General: Since there are at most 3 low throws for each character, I'd make the low throw escape system like the ground throw escape system; pick one and pray. I'd only do those to make them a bit more useful.

Jeff: I'd give him another, more useful throw ending with the command...maybe ,++.

Brad: I've grown fond of him, and I think he's pretty good. I would improve on his throw where you can get multiple knees though. I'd make + the final elbow, while is a normal elbow. That should make it more useful. I would also add a + knee, but that would make it too useful.

Also for Brad, another ending for his , chain. Maybe ,,+, resulting in a gut kick. And finally a strong mid kick that doesn't begin with the ducking (too many people can see it coming with the ducking...but it's got such range you can't help but try it out).

That's about it. Oh, and give Akira back his guard cancel-able low kick.

 

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afroconnexion said:
General: Since there are at most 3 low throws for each character, I'd make the low throw escape system like the ground throw escape system; pick one and pray. I'd only do those to make them a bit more useful.


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First of all, some characters have different amounts of low throws, instead of the 50/50 chance you have of escaping a ground throw, it might be 50/50 or 33/33/33, it is uneven, just like normal throw escapes, hence the way they use the current system.

Characters who have low throws, have moves that hit the opponent into a forced crouch, some of these moves, sometimes on a counter hit, give enough frame initiative to give the player a free low throw attempt.

Characters who have set up moves, that crumple the opponent, in such a way that they are succeptable to low throws, are also going to be able to execute a free low throw command.

For both of these scenarios, it means that we are talking a high percentage, greater than 50 in most cases, that you are going to be eating a totally unecessary amount of damage, because the game restricts you from entering low throw commands.

Anyways, most players are smart enough not to use low throws after such instances, because as you can see, (on the EVO disc replays) that most players with enough experience can buffer in the low throws with little effort. The way low throw escaping is handled in Evolution ver. B is fine by me.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all characters that have low throws have two, except Wolf who has three.

I think it's fine the way it is.

 

Jeff has three as well.

, and

 

As does Pai. Mind you, you can escape her 3 low throws with and , but there are still three to choose from.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

reversals shouldn't be TR-able

 

I was referring to directions... not throws themselves. The extra throws don't mean much if the direction is the same.

 

Personally, I'd give Aoi the ability to reverse reversals. It's an advanced technique used in Aikido and I think it would be an awesome ability for her.

 

I have only one request, which I doubt would make it in: Importing characters from a memory card. I happen to like playing as my Sarah decked out in red pants, a red top, red hair, and that stupid little heart necklace. Yes, I'm petty. But I'm sorry - the lack of importing ability in Evo really disappoints me. I want to look COOL when I kick my friend's ass.